What scares you more?

[amydep]

VPDs or vaccines?

If VPDs scare/concern you more, why?
If VPDs scare/concern you more, do you vax for everything, or do you selectively/delay vax?
If you selectively vax, how do you decide which ones to vax for (why some and not others)?
If you delay vax, then what do you do during the time when your child is not vaxed to protect him against the VPD?
If you do certain things to protect your child against a VPD before you decide to vax (if you delay until 2 years old or something), then why do you think that those same things that you do to protect your child won't work as your child gets older?
What led you to your decision to vax?


If vaccines scare/concern you more, why?
If vaccines scare/concern you more, what do you do to protect your child against a VPD?
What particular ingredients, etc., scare/concern you the most about a vaccine?
What led you to your decision to not vax?


I'm just curious what led people to their decisions. Thanks!

[carriebft]

It's not really about fear for me. Sure, I would be a little scared if my babe got pertussis, but I'm a "we will deal with it" kinda person. However, my attitude being as laid back as it is, that didn't stop me from getting some vaccines to help prevent some of this stuff.

So I guess I can't really answer the other ?s to selective/delayers because they seem to all be rooted in 'fear'. My choices were just rooted in the evidence I saw and the ability I saw to prevent. The ones we don't do, I saw not enough efficacy, not enough risk, etc.

I also don't fear colds, but I do what I can to prevent them. If my child gets a cold, there is a bit of fear there-- but fear is such a wide category of emotion that I don't think it serves here as a good word.


edit:

As for this overall question:

VPDs or vaccines?

It's kinda like those games where you ask "what grosses you out more?" or that kinda thing. I see no real reason to have a scale where I place one fear above others in this subject. Fear just seems to make the whole thing less rational. I don't trust decisions I make when influenced by the irrational...I have to step back from them and re-decide at a later time.

[amydep]

OK...change the word "scare" to "concern" then. Concern might be a better word to go in that place.


ETA: I added "concern" to my original post

[Sheal]

If vaccines scare you more, why?

Chemicals used in them, the VAERS already reported, the research I've done on those chemicals used, the horror stories I've heard\read.

If vaccines scare you more, what do you do to protect your child against a VPD?

What any other person would do with their children regardless of vax status.

What particular ingredients, etc., scare you the most about a vaccine?

Not scare really, more disturb me and all of them.

What led you to your decision to not vax?

The horror stories, finding out what's in them and that they go against my "religious" philosophies and personal philosophies (conscientious). I cannot, in good faith, inject something like that into my kidlets (now that I know about them) knowing what I do about what's in them and what possible, probable or plausible outcome they may have on their health.

Sheal

[mykdsmomy]

Originally Posted by carriebft

It's not really about fear for me. Sure, I would be a little scared if my babe got pertussis, but I'm a "we will deal with it" kinda person. However, my attitude being as laid back as it is, that didn't stop me from getting some vaccines to help prevent some of this stuff.

So I guess I can't really answer the other ?s to selective/delayers because they seem to all be rooted in 'fear'. My choices were just rooted in the evidence I saw and the ability I saw to prevent. The ones we don't do, I saw not enough efficacy, not enough risk, etc.

I also don't fear colds, but I do what I can to prevent them. If my child gets a cold, there is a bit of fear there-- but fear is such a wide category of emotion that I don't think it serves here as a good word.
.

Maybe I'm looking at it in a more black and white sort of way but why would someone get a vaccine to prevent an illness they werent scared of?

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by amydep

OK...change the word "scare" to "concern" then. Concern might be a better word to go in that place.


ETA: I added "concern" to my original post

But that's really asking the same thing. It's a like a black and white where if you are scared/concerned then you can vaccinate and that somehow alleviates the fear/concern.

But for me it's not like that. I see the potential for illness. I see the potential to vaccine to protect against that illness. My decision rests on the ability of the vaccine to perform, the presence of true risk, etc.

I mean, it would be a lie for me to say that I am not concerned at all about illness. LIke I said, I am not concerned about colds, I don't fear colds, but I do attempt to prevent them. A vaccine is that same way for me...and VPDs are the same kinda thing. It's potentially out there...I need to analyze that potential and the vaccine and see what I come up with.

I guess I just have the same level of concern for all illnesses from my current position (healthy kids who have never gotten anything really). I know I would be fearful if my babe got pertussis. But it's not really fear itself that drives my vaccine decisions.

Ok this isnt making a whole lot of sense but I will try again later.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

Maybe I'm looking at it in a more black and white sort of way but why would someone get a vaccine to prevent an illness they werent scared of?

Why would they wash hands to prevent colds they weren't scared of?

Why would they stay away from a relative with contagious stage pertussis if they weren't scared?


It's just preventative. You don;t have to fear these things to take preventative measures.

[Genesis]

[carriebft]

Although it might be a good time to say that I have taken a lot of personal steps to eliminate fear in my life and not let it drive my decisions. long and involved story but that might help in understanding my posts

[mykdsmomy]

Originally Posted by amydep

VPDs or vaccines?

If vaccines scare/concern you more, why?
If vaccines scare/concern you more, what do you do to protect your child against a VPD?
What particular ingredients, etc., scare/concern you the most about a vaccine?
What led you to your decision to not vax?


I'm just curious what led people to their decisions. Thanks!

For me it was risk vs benefit. I see no benefit in taking the risk of the vaccines when the risk of long term negative effects has not been sufficiently researched.

VPD's do scare me a little and that's why getting the proper education on how to recognize and treat them is key! I have absolutely no fear of chicken pox because I lived through it (as did every person I knew in my generation). I think the fear of vpd's stems more from propoganda than from actuality. My parents had nearly all of the vpd's we vaccinate for now and are alive to tell about it.

The whole idea of vaccines scare me. You are rewiring your immune system in a way.....I prefer to leave it as it is and deal with things as they come. I will arm my (and my children's bodies) with good ammo IE: nutrition first and foremost.

[mykdsmomy]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Why would they wash hands to prevent colds they weren't scared of?

Why would they stay away from a relative with contagious stage pertussis if they weren't scared?


It's just preventative. You don;t have to fear these things to take preventative measures.

gotcha. good point! This is where we disagree. I see the preventative measures of a vaccine way more complicated and risky than handwashing.

[amydep]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

For me it was risk vs benefit. I see no benefit in taking the risk of the vaccines when the risk of long term negative effects has not been sufficiently researched.

VPD's do scare me a little and that's why getting the proper education on how to recognize and treat them is key! I have absolutely no fear of chicken pox because I lived through it (as did every person I knew in my generation). I think the fear of vpd's stems more from propoganda than from actuality. My parents had nearly all of the vpd's we vaccinate for now and are alive to tell about it.

The whole idea of vaccines scare me. You are rewiring your immune system in a way.....I prefer to leave it as it is and deal with things as they come. I will arm my (and my children's bodies) with good ammo IE: nutrition first and foremost.

I was going to post my answer to my own questions, but you basically wrote exactly what I would have said!!!

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

gotcha. good point! This is where we disagree. I see the preventative measures of a vaccine way more complicated and risky than handwashing.

Yeah, I def see that that's where we part company.

I also want to note that I don't necessarily see all decisions made with fear at their root to be horrible or categorically 'bad decisions.'

But, knowing myself, they are like that when I do it.

(so read all my posts as speaking for myself only)

[attachedmamaof3]

For me, fear really didn't play too much into it, I guess.

VPD's are a reality and vaccines aren't 100%...

As for the rest, it was all about the information.

For example:

what was there/what what missing
what the vaccine was originally supposed to do and what it was marketed as doing
chance of severe VPD vs. vax reaction
what information appeared to be skewed or purposefully glossed over
studies/journals, etc.
the numbers
treatment options for VPD's vs. treatment options for vax reactions, etc.

Then, I had to prioritize the importance of said information as it applies to my decision on whether or not to vax.

[CCChanel]

Originally Posted by amydep

VPDs or vaccines?

What led you to your decision to not vax?


I'm just curious what led people to their decisions. Thanks!

The vaccines scare me more.

How I decided not to vax:

My sisters son had a reaction to a DTP shot.

My midwife told me that I could hold off on DD's shots since I was bfing.

I read "DTP Shot in the Dark" and then Mendelsohns "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of your Doctor".

Hearing about and reading about vax damaged children ...and deaths associated with vaxes.

Vax damage compensation program. 'Nuff said.

[runes]

If vaccines scare/concern you more, why?

Reading the package inserts to the vaccines, I realized that the safety trials were not against a true placebo, and the participants were followed for a relatively short period of time. I also realized that my VERY healthy infant would not have been eligible to be in a vaccine trial, because she has a family history of allergies (both mama and daddy have some serious atopic issues, in addition, i think that dh's asthma and my severe at times eczema are due to vaccines, but i digress...) How they can justify only testing safety on the healthiest of healthy subjects yet recommend them to everyone else is illogical at best, and criminal at worst.

If vaccines scare/concern you more, what do you do to protect your child against a VPD?

I do whatever I can to keep my family's immune system working optimally, through nutrition and lifestyle decisions. From using nutritional supplementation to washing hands to exercising and minimizing stress (easier said than done, of course), we do our part to keep ourselves as healthy as possible, against all diseases whether there is a vaccine available or not.

But honestly...what do I do to protect my child against "VPD's"?

I don't vaccinate.

How do you like them apples?

What particular ingredients, etc., scare/concern you the most about a vaccine?

I'm concerned about the usual suspects...thimerosol, aluminum. I also don't think that the mechanism of vaccine induced immunity is absolutely not the same as the immunity conferred by natural infection.

Clearly, because multiple doses and boosters are required. There's obviously a missing link and 'science' hasn't caught up with it yet.

In addition, introducing viral and bacterial particles/toxins into the body is circumventing the body's natural defenses. Doesn't seem like a particularly intelligent thing to do.

What led you to your decision to not vax?

Thousands of hours of scientific research. I probably have logged enough hours to at least earn another master's degree.

[attachedmamaof3]

Originally Posted by CCChanel

Vax damage compensation program. 'Nuff said.

Good point!

[indignantgirl]

I would be scared to death to give my kids vaccines. There. I said it. I fear injecting chemicals and garbage into my kids' bloodstreams and then playing the waiting game, hoping they don't have an adverse reaction, all for the chance of bypassing a disease.

[CCChanel]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

Clearly, because multiple doses and boosters are required. There's obviously a missing link and 'science' hasn't caught up with it yet.

Yep. Repeatedly exposing my kids to those toxins just doesn't not sit well with me.

I forgot to add another reason for me: The HUGE increase of vaxes on the schedule!! It's crazy.

[CCChanel]

Originally Posted by attachedmamaof3

Good point!

If vaxes don't damage why is there pay out?