Why Why Why...?

[Attached Mama]

When I'm supposed to eat meat and fat do I hate the smell of it cooking. Always have... It smells so disgusting to me. And as for meat fat, I have always been repulsed by it - why if it's so good for me?

I'm trying to not be a vegetarian anymore, but this is so hard. I never liked meat growing up, never liked the smell of it cooking - and that was all before I even knew it was a dead animal.

Do you think I can be healthy and only ever eat a tiny bit of it? I do like eggs and butter and yogurt... I don't like milk tho. Makes me gag unless it's in cereal which is not a TF.

[Ruthla]

You may need to eat small amounts and slowly get your body used to eating more fat- both in terms of digestion and psychologically.

For now, stick with eggs and butter and whole milk yogurt- lots of good fats in those foods too!

[cristeen]

Can you handle vegetable sourced fats? Coconut oil, olive oil, etc.? Can you handle cooking with animal fats like lard? How about making biscuits, pie crust, or any other baked good with lard instead of butter?

Do you like any meat? fish, shellfish, poultry? I would try to find something that doesn't repulse me and go from there. Or at the very least, start with the least repulsive of all options.

Can you "hide" it? Mix a small amount of meat into a salad (green, potato, pasta, egg, doesn't matter), chop it small and add it to soup. If you can stomach bone broth, that may also be a good starting point.

Oh, and FYI, I don't drink milk either... I'll eat butter, yogurt, ice cream, cheese, but don't really care for plain milk. That's not a big deal, IMO.

[Attached Mama]

The only way I ever liked meat was with *all* the fat trimmed off of it and cooked with a lot of herbs/spices/onions/garlic etc til it shreds - like slow roasted or in the crockpot or in small bits in soup.

I eat fish about 2x per month - trying to up that to 4 times per month. I like fish, but it's really hard to find eco fish that isn't really high in PCB"S and mercury. So options seem to be limited there.

I just had chicken for the first time in over five years - just a wee bit shredded in some curried veggies and rice.

I guess I'll just never be someone who can eat massive amounts of meat - or any amount of meat fat. But I do like other fats like olive oil, eggs, coconut oil, butter, full fat yogurt, full fat raw cheese. And daily fish oil which I'll change to cod liver oil as soon as I run out. No amount of eating meat is going to make me love it tho and I honestly can't stand meat fat. I've been like this for over 30 yrs so.... I doubt my tastebuds are going to seriously change.

So I guess I'm just wondering if it's ok to eat a TF diet that is mostly dairy and egg based with only small amounts of meat and weekly fish.

What about pregnancy requirements that say daily red meat? We will TTC soon.

Is that still a "valid" TF diet? I do eat mostly TF, but just not much meat...

Maybe I could make pie crust with lard - what does it feel like? Shortening? I currently make an all butter pie crust. Does it taste like pork/ham? Prob a silly question....
Not sure about bone broths - my dh just made one beginning with a raw chicken bones/bits of meat. I couldn't beleive how incredibly awful it smelled to me! He made one with our turkey from Thanksgiving and it didn't smell nearly so bad - I think 'cause the turkey was already cooked. Oh, and I normally hate the smell of a cooking turkey too - except that my dh seasons it with lots of garlic, oregano, salt and pepper the Puerto Rican way so you smell a lot of that too and it's not so bad to me.

But if I have always hated meat, meat fat, smell of meat cooking - shouldn't I listen to my body? Maybe I need more dairy/eggs and less of that?

Lately I've been eating a lot of sourdough toast topped with lots of butter and raw full fat cheese and then topped with eggs fried in lots of butter. Mmmm.... can't get enough of it. Onions fried in butter are a good addition with some kimchee on the side.

[cristeen]

Lard works just like shortening in recipes. It is what shortening replaced. So any baking recipe that calls for shortening you can use lard in... most things you can replace butter with lard, too. I do not notice any taste when using it.

I know there are some TF vegetarians around here, so I don't see any reason why you can't be TF with minimal meat products. And if you're eating butter and cheese, you're getting fat that way.

As for pregnancy "requirement" of red meat... that's addressing three things, IMO. Protein, fat and iron. If you're getting enough protein and iron from other sources (since we already established you're getting fat in your diet), there's no reason you have to eat red meat. If you can better stomach chicken or pork or duck or turkey or whatever, there's nothing that says you have to eat beef.

How was the curry? Did you do okay with that? The flavors in curry can hide a lot, and there's no reason you can't cook the meat in the crockpot until it's falling apart (add the veggies toward the end though).

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by cristeen

Lard works just like shortening in recipes. It is what shortening replaced. So any baking recipe that calls for shortening you can use lard in... most things you can replace butter with lard, too. I do not notice any taste when using it.

I know there are some TF vegetarians around here, so I don't see any reason why you can't be TF with minimal meat products. And if you're eating butter and cheese, you're getting fat that way.

As for pregnancy "requirement" of red meat... that's addressing three things, IMO. Protein, fat and iron. If you're getting enough protein and iron from other sources (since we already established you're getting fat in your diet), there's no reason you have to eat red meat. If you can better stomach chicken or pork or duck or turkey or whatever, there's nothing that says you have to eat beef.
How was the curry? Did you do okay with that? The flavors in curry can hide a lot, and there's no reason you can't cook the meat in the crockpot until it's falling apart (add the veggies toward the end though).

Curry was pretty good. The veggies were a little too crunchy IMO and I would have preferred it all be cooked a bit longer - everything was done, but the meat wasn't as soft as I would have liked.

I don't think I need to worry about iron during pregnancy - never had a problem with it. My iron counts were excellent during my vegetarian pregnancy. Not sure why, but they always have been....

Protein will be a bit harder. I had such a hard time getting the recommended 60 grams per day - and didn't feel like I was listening to my body in trying to get it. Was constantly drinking more milk or more spoons of peanut butter or whatever - and then was always so full and gained a lot. I am debating just eating whatever my body is in the mood for vs trying to follow a TF diet of a certain # of recommended eggs, oils etc per day. I have never eaten that much protein and am very healthy, high IQ etc.

As for dd, she has obviously had enough protein in utero - brain well developed. She is 27 months, talks like a 3 or 4 year old, can recite the entire night before Christmas poem from memory with just a few pomptings etc. So I wonder if I really need 60 grams of protein let alone the 80 or 100 that some pregnancy diets recommend. I think I will do fine if I just listen to my body.

My only hesitation is that my placenta was very calcified at 40 wks with dd - midwives said probably due to a chromosome error in it's formation and very rare. But then I've heard that can be due to lack of protein too. All so confusing for me!

[JaneSmith1010]

I personally really dislike meat too, don't like the taste, texture or smell. I get by just fine with nuts, eggs, yogurt and cheese...along with fruit and vegetables. I wouldn't fight your repulsion too much, I don't. I think you can find balance without much meat..plus, we eat way more meat than we need anyway. I personally say, listen to your body on this one.

[momma4fun]

Maybe you would like raw meat? It's much easier to digest, and IMO way milder tasting, than cooked meat.

[newcastlemama]

I have read before that a meat aversions can be a sign of zinc defiency/copper toxicity.

Here is some info I found about copper/zinc/adrenals/meat--
http://www.arltma.com/CopperElimDoc.htm

Need for Increase in Protein Intake
One of the major problems associated with a copper toxicity problem is a copper-induced protein deficiency. This no doubt occurs, in part, because an excess of tissue copper causes a zinc deficiency. "Zinc has...been found to be important in governing the net rate of synthesis of nucleic acids and protein, thereby importantly influencing tissue growth and reparative processes..."4 Adding to the problem, individuals suffering from copper toxicity frequently develop a distaste for meat protein due to their reduced ability to digest and assimilate protein. Over a period of time, a serious protein deficiency develops. As stated previously, one major reason why copper accumulates in the body is a deficiency of protein required to bind copper, thus increasing one's metabolic rate. Although sometimes difficult, copper-toxic individuals should attempt to increase their protein intake (eggs, fish or chicken). Soy-protein products should be avoided, unless otherwise specified, if possible, inasmuch as soy products contain relatively high amounts of copper.
Copper-toxic individuals have a great need to increase their protein intake, but usually will not partake of an increased meat protein intake until their adrenal insufficiency problem is improved or corrected. Until such time, the copper-toxic individual must avail him or herself of digestive aids including hydrochloric acid and pancreatic enzymes.
An adequate level of zinc, so necessary to prevent an excessive copper buildup depends largely on the eating of red meat protein. As stated previously, individuals suffering from copper toxicity develop a strong aversion to the eating of zinc-rich red meat protein hence the tendency to the excessive accumulation of tissue copper.

I used to have a meat aversion (I eliminated red meat from my diet all through my teens and then was a strict veg for a while) and was zinc deficient. I am not trying to alarm you about deficiencies, just something to look into. You can test your zinc level orally at home with liquid zinc...I can give you the instructions if you are interested.

I agree with Ruthla that you may need time to psycologically adjust and get used to digesting it. I would look into digestive enzymes (I think proteses are for protein and benatine HCI is for meat more specifically) www.vitacost.com has good deals on those.

Jen

[Attached Mama]

I just recently had all of my blood mineral/vitamin levels tested by my holistic doctor and they are all excellent. So don't think that's the cause... Also, I rarely ever take any vitamin/mineral supplements, so I don't think my readings were false due to synthetic vitamins in my system.

I really don't think that I need to just "get used to it". I ate meat for the first 28 years of my life and never got used to it. (Been veg for the last 5).Always found it disgusting and could only stomach small bits of it. It's not a matter of digestion. I can digest it - just doesn't taste good going down unless it's completely disguised in flavor and smell with garlic or something. But still, I ate it several times per week. If my mom served it; I ate it. Hamburger nights were the worst! I actually remember one time going to bed around 4:30 and *making* myself fall asleep so I wouldn't have to eat a hamburger for dinner.

We cooked a free range chicken last week, and I'd planned to eat some, but it just smells so incredibly repulsively awful to me. Even my dh noticed that it smelled kind of gamey. Fine for him tho, but I think it's gross.

So if I can sometimes stomach a bit of chicken, I'll eat it - eat my weekly fish and other than that stick to the dairy and eggs. Maybe my ancestors whose genes I've inherited were all shepherds and ate mostly all dairy or something.... Can't really trace it as my first relatives came to America around the time of the Mayflower. I'm a total mutt!! But anyway, long story short () I don't really think my taste buds/sense of smell towards meat is going to change when it never did eating it for 28 years.

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by momma4fun

Maybe you would like raw meat? It's much easier to digest, and IMO way milder tasting, than cooked meat.

Oh my no!!! The thought of it makes me shiver! I won't even touch it! Always thought that was the grossest thing of all!

[Attached Mama]

Yeah - I'm so glad I like this!

chicken broth made into garlic soup. With 6 cloves of garlic sauteed in olive oil and then add the chicken stock and green onion etc - doesn't taste bad at all. So I found a way to get more "meat" into my diet.

This is our immune booster soup - I have a slight sniffle.

[NatrlCatholicMama]

I don't know if there's any possibility that this true for you, but I know that *for me*, every food I've ever hated has turned out to be a case of bad product or bad cooking or both. I hated green beans; turns out that what I hated was insipid gb boiled for 4 hours - I love them crisp-tender in olive oil w a little sea salt and pepper! I hated turkey; turns out I hated overcooked (often microwaved :shock !) factory turkey (mother from a generation of germophobes, although probably rightfully so given where the meat came from!). I even like liver well prepared and from well-raised animals. The only thing left to conquer is onions ...

[cloudswinger]

It's wierd what people like and dislike, my 3yo dd likes raw onions! But for the op, I don't think you need to force yourself to eat it. It's just something about your body chemistry. I know my cousin couldn't stand the smell of meat cooking while she was pregnant, so unless something changes about your body chemistry, you'll just have to not eat very much meat. Textures and odors are all part of eating, and if you can't enjoy it, why bother? Even if it is supposedly good for you.

[Attached Mama]

well, now I'm being told if I consult with Dr Ron Schmid, the TF naturopathic doc due to some menstrual problems I'm having, that he will "require" me to eat red meat at 2 meals per day for several months to "recover" from being vegetarian. I really feel like he could help with whatever is going on, but I'm not sure it would really require that much red meat. Dilemna....