Any reason morphine during birth would be a good thing? - Page 5

[mwherbs]

so lots to think about alchemists became chemists eventually, and herbalist physicians (eclectic physicians in this country) became pharmacists, and todays physicians have their roots more or less in surgery-- thanks to things like the Civil war that lent it's self to the need of someone who could saw a leg off and administer morphine.. and still in all you have the effects of another war and war efforts later on so that chemistry came to the forefront- and so then after the concocting of mustard gas and other stuff- that war ends and we have chemists with time on their hands-- so pitutary extract had some bad side effects because it wasn't simply something that acted on the uterus but also body fluids (vassopressin)...( mainly reserved for the most dire situations) and ergot of rye that the French midwives developed long before to be used for hemorrhage has some bad side effects too, severe spasm of vessels and mental side effects... and a question can these things be altered and utilized ... so you have the man Professor Stoll who in 1917 found-Ergotamine( Gynergen)who later hired Albert Hoffman- both worked for Sandoz any how one of the early ergot derived drugs trying to reduce side effects-- not until 1938 did Albert Hoffman work on and formulate methergine the same stuff we use now-- he also at the same time isolated LSD--(chemists back then just worked in something like say your kitchen)
Pitutary extracts were played with but not seperated from vassopressin effects until 1958--
Morphine was isolated much eariler- 1804 but injectible use wasn't until 1850's -- first used as a remedy for addiction to opium and alcohol -- heroin which is probably 2x as strong as morphine was first marketed by Bayer (you know the aspirin company)-- were there double blinded studies for these drugs before they were used-- no- but there are some studies now... and key drugs in use now in the birth world(well not the heroine)

[dinahx]

Anyway, you have to understand that allopathic is a belief system as well as a training background and a healthcare system. Allopathic medicine believes in the scientific method, the germ theory, that physiology is scientific and understandable and reacts predictably. Like other belief systems have things that are held up as paradigms, ours is the randomized, controlled, double-blinded trial. We believe that this method of testing different treatment options and medications is the most accurate and that is the basis for many of the treatments recommended in medicine. You will often hear allopathic providers talking about evidence-based medicine, which is the process of interpreting the available studies as they apply to your specific patient population and following the treatment guidelines and medication recommendations that come out of the body of medical studies (evidence.)

I just want to say that I am also enjoying this discussion and I am grateful for the learn-ed mamas who are participating in it with me . . .
I guess I didn't fully understand that Allopathic medicine was a belief system.

I do disagree with a number of the fundamental beliefs mentioned. Including germ theorey. Specifically, I think it needs some serious updating to encompass a more througough understanding of microbial behavior and to encompass a less adversarial approach (MRSA, in my mind, proves the adversarial approach can't last forever) . . . And I don't believe the double blind studies are so blind as to trump anecdotal evidence as throughly as they are believed to, if that makes any sense. I also think the fact that manufacturers perform these studies themselves in many cases, or at least fund them compromises their reliablity very seriously. Also, I mentioned earlier, the participants in these studies are often well compensated.

I don't know that herbs extracted in standardized ways (and there are standardized ways) have ever been held up "head to head" as it were, against synthetics and I have to hold out that a major motivation behind synthesizing & isolating a compound is the ability to then patent and profit from your synthesis . . .

What I want is a safe birth that respects my sincerly held and totally well researched health beliefs, until the point (if) I need surgery! Unfortunately for me, the Allopathic medical community has a general lockdown on proximity to the surgical suite . . . So if I want to deliver in reasonable proximity to lifesaving emergency equipment (short of renting a nearby hotel room), I am forced, to a greater or lesser extent, to accept Allopathy & pharmaceutical-based care as the price of this proximity.

MWHerbs: I am enjoying the history you are posting here . . .

[Michelle Renee]

So, yes, sometimes it is a good thing. Whatever a woman's reasons for needing pain relief; fear, malpresentation, tension, exhaustion, sexual abuse, whatever, they're her reasons and are valid to her.[/QUOTE]

Amen!

I had a failed medically necc induction. I am also an abuse survivor - After having my membranes repeatedly stripped and being dilated from a 0-4 by hand - I was in so much pain and mentally drained. It had been 2 days and they had been begging me to consent to a section. I started to think about it because I hurt so bad.

Hubbie called our bradley teacher at 3 am and it seemed like a good idea for an epidural and demerol. 6 hours of sleep - I woke up at 9 and pushed the baby out vaginally. I have no bad memories of labor I have horrid traumatic memories of before the epidural. If it not for the rest of the pain medication - Id have had that c-section.

[wannabe]

Dinah, in what way do you beleive anecdotal evidence trumps evidence double blind randomized controlled trials? Except as a representation of how the person perceived or felt about their experience- which obviously can't be extrapolated since it's entirely personal and individual.

And you don't beleive that germs cause disease? How do you explain their ability to cause disease, then?

[birthdancedoula]

Originally Posted by maxmama

When we use morphine for prodromal labor, it's usually because mom has been contracting for days (and nights), isn't making cervical change and is exhausted. Morphine and vistaril will give usually about 4-6 hours of solid rest, and many times when mom wakes up, she's in a more effective labor pattern.

This is how we use it, too. And the result is exactly as you described...the mom wakes up with much more effective UCs. Sometimes its just what the mom needs to get her over a hump where she might otherwise want to transfer to the hospital for an epidural. IMO, when used responsibly, it can be very useful.