Traditional Child spacing?

[Jeanne D'Arc]

In Nutrition and Physical degeneration (as well as a few other books)
they mention that children were spaced anywhere from 2 1/2 to 5 years apart to
protect the mother and the future children's health.This was something so
important that it was looked down upon if you got pregnant too soon.
Including a traditional diet, this method was believed to have maximum
benefits for mother and baby.

I guess what I am wondering is, is anyone doing this? If so
have you found it a challenge? Have you noticed benefits (for
you and your baby) And how wide of a gap are you spacing?

[Panserbjorne]

No, but I wish I had. It was for this reason that I was so devastated when I found out I was pg. with ds2.

[Taedareth]

Originally Posted by firefaery

No, but I wish I had. It was for this reason that I was so devastated when I found out I was pg. with ds2.

Wait, why were you devastated? Because your kids weren't going to be spaced as far apart as some of the traditional peoples Price observed?

Our 2 kids are going to be 2.5 years apart exactly, but we would have been happy with anywhere around 2-3 years. Even with extended nursing and co-sleeping (lots of night nursing) my AF returned at 13 months postpartum. We used FAM/NFP to avoid pregnancy for a few months, then as we prayed about it we felt the time had come, so we TTC. And miraculously, conceived in the first month

[Panserbjorne]

Because I am not in the best of health (undiagnosed celiac for over a decade with multiple problems associated with that) and my first two were on the autism spectrum. I wasn't able to spontaneously produce milk with any of them. My intention was to do ALOT of gut healing and to totally nourish my body before I did it again. Ah well. Ds2 was born with a mild midline defect and multiple food allergies. I'm done having kids, but I really wish I had been in a better place for any of them. I didn't have very much to give in the way of nutritional stores.

Granted my place is extreme, but there it is. I don't tend to hold myself to lofty ideals in books and beat myself up if I fail, but alot was riding on this, you know?

I have read in several places that to adequately replace stores that you should wait until a year after you finish breastfeeding. I don't know that it has to be that extreme, but it does say something.

[caedmyn]

We plan to space our kids out, probably 2.5-3 years. Three years would probably be better from a nutritional stores standpoint, IMO, but I don't really want my kids that far apart. For the next baby this should work out just right. We plan to TTC next month and if I get pregnant right away DD will be 2 years 9 months when her sibling arrives. I do sometimes feel like I want to have kids closer together--before DD was born I wanted my kids less than two years apart. But I think it will work out well this way as DD has finally started sleeping through the night most of the time and I can mentally cope with the idea of another baby. For me it will be better to have a baby and an almost-preschooler than a baby and an almost-baby (toddler).

I also do not plan to nurse during pregnancy--from what I've read, traditional cultures don't generally nurse during pregnancy, probably because whatever milk you're producing takes that much more from you. IMO the pregnancy-related nursing discomfort or aversions that most women experience is the body's way of saying not to nurse during pregnancy. This is just my opinion, please don't flame me if you disagree. I do think it would be better to have at least a few months after weaning before pregnancy to rebuild nutritional stores, but...I'm not willing to wait that long for another baby.

[bluebell]

this is a big question for us at the moment because dd is begging us for a baby sister (or brother ), she has wanted one for the past year, and i'm also realising how difficult it would be for her to be an only child. a big part of me wishes i had been well enough to have had a baby 18mths ago so that there would be 3yrs between then dd would have a playmate. now she is
4 1/2yrs and i'm still not feeling ready although i'm physically getting better i'm getting to the point where i just want to continue to heal and pregnancy might set my health back. also the gap between is getting so much greater that the playmate thing wouldn't work and i'm also moving out of the 'baby' phase although dd is still nursing i'm mentally moving on and have a fear of going back! hormonally i do feel really broody - i actually got AF back straight after having dd and have been ovulating since then but i was so depleted and barely coping so we've not ever ttc. anyway i've gone on a bit, but this is on my mind so much.
i do feel sad that dd will probably be an only child because she is so desperate for a sibling. if my health hadn't been so bad after having dd then i would have gone for the 3yrs between.
i'm interested in reading what others have done.

[Taedareth]

Bluebell, would you consider adopting a child? From what I understand, there are lots of toddlers available for adoption. You could skip the baby phase and your DD could still have a playmate sort of close to her own age

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by Taedareth

Bluebell, would you consider adopting a child? From what I understand, there are lots of toddlers available for adoption. You could skip the baby phase and your DD could still have a playmate sort of close to her own age

i did have a brief thought/fantasy of adopting an older child because dd also wishes she could have a big sister!! she loves other kids' big sisters! oh dear she is so lonely .
we are not in a very settled living situation as we are moving every few months at the moment. but the other thought on that is that i'm not sure i could cope with the issues that might come up with adopting a child. in fact my reservations for having another natural child is that i'm not sure i could cope with another child's needs full stop as my dd has been very 'high need' and intense and being so depleted i was at total burnout and i've got a big fear of that happening again. so i guess this wouldn't really work for us either.

[AJP]

Mine are 6 years apart. I waited that long on purpose (using only FAM to prevent pregnancy), because I felt physically and emotionally depleted after #1, and also because of what I'd learned about nutrition and wanting to be able to give #2 as much as possible in utero. I wasn't interested in trying to nurse while pregnant or tandem nurse, and believe in extended breastfeeding. I also wanted to get all the mercury out of my mouth, after #1 was done BFing and before getting pregnant again. This age gap is working out very well for us. They're 8 and 2 now. #1 is old enough to be a big help, and still young enough to really enjoy playing with his little brother (most of the time), they're very attached to each other. If we have another, we won't wait quite as long, partly because of my age and partly because I don't think I'm as depleted this time. I got clued into TF concepts when #1 was almost 2 yrs. (ate organic mostly whole foods before that, but leaned towards veg.), so I think I didn't have the reserves then that I do now, having eaten a much more nutritionally-dense diet for the last 6 years or so. But I still would rather have at least 4 years in between if we have another child.

[spughy]

Interesting thread! I'm leaning towards a little more than a 3 year gap for several reasons. First is nutritional - I don't feel quite ready yet, body-wise. I need to be stronger, physically, too. DD's birth was really traumatic (ketosis in labour, massive hemorrhage post-partum, post-partum anemia, low milk supply, PPD, etc....) and I feel like the pregnancy took more out of me than I realized. I was all happy about not gaining much weight, but I think I should have made more of an effort to gain more. I ate well, but very little, because I am tiny and all my "height" is in my legs, my stomach got squished very early in my pregnancy to the size of a gerbil and I just couldn't eat very much. So, fetuses being the greedy little goobers they are, DD sucked quite a bit out of me. (Also, she was nearly 9 lbs when she was born. Damn DH's genes...but she is also gloriously healthy.)

Also, DH is currently looking for a tenure-track position but we have no idea where that will be, and there are places in the world (cough half the USA cough) where I would NOT want to give birth. So we definitely want to wait until we get that sorted out. But on the flip side of things, I'm 35, and nearing the end of my suitable reproductive era. So if we end up waiting more than another 3 years, I think DD will be an only child, or we will adopt.

And, FWIW - caedmyn I agree with you on the nursing while pregnant thing. That's a no-go for me too. DD is starting to get close to weaning - in fact today was the first day EVER she didn't want a booby first thing on waking up, and she's down to nursing just then and to go to sleep - but I don't want to rush her, I'd like it to be as much of a mutual decision as possible. But, having seen one mama I know deal with toddler nursing style and pregnancy boobs, and another mama I know deal with the trauma and squabbles of a 3-year-old sibling jealous of the booby time a newborn gets, there's no way I would nurse through a pregnancy.

[desertpenguin]

Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc

I guess what I am wondering is, is anyone doing this? If so
have you found it a challenge? Have you noticed benefits (for
you and your baby) And how wide of a gap are you spacing?

i wanted to wait a few more years before ttc again so i could completely get into being healthy and ds would be weaned. i'm still breastfeeding and my son is 3 yo now, and i'm pregnant again. i'm happy (and dh more so because he wanted them to be kinda close together) but i wish we had waited at least another year because i didn't really want to breastfeed through a pregnancy and i don't think ds is ready yet to wean (and i'm not really ready to wean him yet either!) but on the other hand, if ds doesn't wean during this pregnancy on his own then i figure maybe tandem nursing will be one way to help him bond with his sibling. in the meantime i'm just trying really hard to eat super healthy this pregnancy and : that things go well.

[treehugginhippie]

Very interesting thread! Makes me more secure in the fact that dd and the new baby will be a little over 4.5 yrs apart. Dh and I wanted them 3 yrs apart but I didn't get my 1st ppaf until she was 35 mo old...maybe my body knew something I didn't...hmmmmmm. Oh and she weaned 8 mo ago.

[bluebell]

AJP your post gives me hope - its good to read that your 6yrs between works for you and your kids. makes me think i don't have to worry quite so much about it all.
we are feeling that having an only child will only get more difficult for all of us as she gets older - we have to take her places where there are kids everyday becauase all she wants to do is play with other kids, even at the weekends she isn't happy to be with just us! both dp and i had 2 and 3 siblings.
i'm also aware of my age though as i'm 35 aswell. but also the nursing is a big part of it because my dd is so attached to her booboo that let alone nursing through pregnancy i'm worried that the milk would just dry up and she would be forced to stop nursing as there isn't much there now. she would be devasted - she is no where near to weaning and she has worked out by herself how she would let the baby have one side (not her favourite one!) and then she would have another!!
this is an interesting thread, and very thought provoking for me.

[crunchy_mama]

I definitely have kept this in mind. I got prego w/ #2 when #1 was 2 , as at that point I felt ok with him perhaps no longer nursing. It is good that I did as my milk immediately dried up. I think one thing to bear in mind with traditional child spacing is how closely our lives mirror that of traditional societies; ie bottle/pacifer use, cosleeping, baby being constantly with mom. Also, our nutrition etc. I don't think it is natural to have babies really close together. I think something has went aschew with our bodies when ovulation returns quickly- Although there does seem to be a natural variance to when fertility returns within differing traditional groups. I haven't studied that in depth, but I would be curious to the diets of groups and fertility return/child spacing.

We use natural family planning. Currently my period is still mia however we will be using nfp to avoid if it returns before this one is at least 18 mo -2 yr. I am undecided at this point. I am just playing it by ear to see how this baby needs me and how my body feels.

Also, at this point I am getting ready to embark on a gluten challenge as I think I may have issues with that. So, for me I am taking it one thing at a time. However, it is definitely a consideration as to whether or not my babe I have can do without mommy milk and whether or not my body feels ready for a pregnancy. I think I have an obligation to take care of the baby I have before purposely trying to get prego- although if it happens inadvertently then we will do our best.

As to whether I have found it to be difficult.... I find difficulty in the fact that I have religious objections to bc and just trying to avoid pregnancy without good reason, so I struggle with that trying to make sure that my concerns are just not selfishness. With number #1 I didn't have any strong desire to get prego before he was at least 1.5 . This time around I have had somewhat of a desire, but really I am happy to have a break. I cannot imagine being someone who just wants babies really close. That sounds really stressful to me, besides the health issues. It is just not how I am wired. So, the waiting is not difficult at all. I would be happy if the next 2 are about the same space (2 yr 9 mo) or more.

[aprilibarra]

wow, i'm preg w/my 5th

and they are all 2-3 years apart. I'm grateful for the recovery but its like i could use a break from nursing. when can i sleep on my tummy again? but health wise i think that i've had all the restoration and my body was very proficient in birth.

[Lia & Eva's Mama]

from life experience i think the numbers of years spaced to health have no connection. i'm guessing its genetics
me and my brother were 13mos apart
my girls are 13mos apart
my hubby is 13mos and 9 months to his youngest and oldest brothers.
none of us have any alergies or health proplems.
i have never had a broken bone or had any childhood diseases not even the chicken pox!
unless were the odd family out i'm sticking to saying its genetics.

[Taedareth]

Genetics are influenced by nutrition. We have an interesting thread about that on this forum somewhere, but I didn't have any luck finding it. Maybe someone else will post a link.

[AsYouWish]

What about the health of your mother or your dh's mother, or your own health? Pregnancy and nursing takes so much from a woman's body. My perspective is that the goals of traditional spacing is more tied in with the mother's health than the children's, you know? The kids will probably be fine. But what about mom?

[AJP]

I think I should add that my cycles returned more than a year earlier after #2 was born than after #1 (first time was 28 mos. PP, second was 14 mos. PP), with the same frequency of nursing. I think my more nutrient-dense diet before, during and after pregnancy #2 allowed my body to recover more quickly than it did after #1.

[newcastlemama]

I am pregnant and ds and baby will be 3.5 years apart. I think I will probably take 2 years or so off before getting pregnant again. It depends on how I am doing physically and emotionally, but I think 2 years is probably a minimum. I want to keep working on my health (nutrient stores) and hope to nurse for 2+ years. We want to have at least 4-5 children total and I am 27 years old so I think that will work.

Reading NandPD definately made me think about child spacing and making sure I am loading up on nutrients in my reproductive years. Also, I am a PPD/PPP survivor and I know that was directly related to my nutrient status.

We seem to have a hard time avoiding pregnancy though Our first 2 pregnancies were unplanned (I had an m/c with the last) and I got pregnant the first try with this one. Because of that I am going to keep on the liver and pregnancy dosage CLO just in case of another suprise.

Jen