Awkward moment last night... (mini rant)

[QuietTempest]

So, a good friend of mine broke up with his long-time girlfriend a few weeks ago and is now living with a woman he met shortly thereafter or around the same time. She has a 17 month old son, but for whatever reason he is not in her custody (I didn't ask the details).

While they were visiting, I mentioned that I had just been looking online for a new pediatrician for my son because his doctor and I don't seem to see eye to eye on the proper handling of a foreskin and I'm happy about it. The new girl furrowed her brow and said, "You haven't had him circumcised yet?", to which I responded, "No, of course not". She then proceeded to tell me that she had her son circumcised several days after he was born because he was a preemie and she was afraid that bacteria could get in there when he was so little. She said she didn't have him cut and that they just put a plastic thing on it and it fell off by itself and her son never cried once. I felt sick. I wanted to show her the pictures and the videos and make her realize what she ignorantly put her son through, but this was the first time I'd even met the girl and I know my friend brought her over so that he could get my opinion/impression of her later. Not wanting her to feel like she'd won any debate on the topic, I ended the discussion with, "I think my son looked perfect when he was born and he didn't need any cosmetic surgery".

Have any of you been in this predicament?

It's not just the circ position that killed any positive feelings I might have had for the girl, either. When I said that Gideon was still breastfeeding, she gave me a look as if I were crazy. Gideon is a big guy (he's in the 97th percentile for both weight and height), but he's only 8 months and he's been exclusively breastfed all this time. I'm only now giving him a few jars of baby food as an occassional snack through the week. When I told her that, she said that her baby just didn't like breastmilk. : This is probably the first time I've ever heard of a baby preferring formula to breastmilk.

Maybe it's cruel for me to think this way, but I really think that she's incredibly naive and ignorant and her baby is suffering for it. I have to wonder what poor choices she made that caused her son to be taken from her. She said before leaving that if I ever needed a babysitter to give her a call. I think I'll pass.

[pdx.mothernurture]

I think it's never too late to educate; I think every person, regardless of their childbearing or parenting status needs to know about this issue because all of us are in a position to influence others. We all know families. We all know pregnant women at one time or another.

It sounds like this woman is ignorant about a lot of things, and being that she doesn't have custody of her baby she may not have much parenting experience at all. There is a reasonably good chance that she will, at some point, get pregnant again.

You could even use her offer to babysit as a reason to talk to her more about intactness and breastfeeding...even if you never utilize her.

If you spend time with her again you might ask, "What makes you think your son didn't like breastmilk?" to explore her misconceptions. To the circumcision issue, you could say something like, "Oh! He was a preemie? I'm surprised they circumcised him at all..." or, "Who was your doctor? You should file a complaint; you were lied to about the procedure."

Idunno, it's probably useless in many cases but I have trouble ignoring/tolerating ignorance on these issues.

Jen

[amandaleigh37]

Well she probably was taken off guard by you "mentioning" your son's foreskin in passing conversation... with someone you just met. Unless you were purposely trying to see what her reaction would be?

Maybe it's cruel for me to think this way, but I really think that she's incredibly naive and ignorant and her baby is suffering for it.

Yes it does seem like she's naive and ignorant, but I think we all were at some point about some of these issues.... at least I know I was! I think it's important that if you do bring it up again, you do so very gently and with the goal of educating and not criticizing her. I think in situations like this, less is more. Just seeing you be happy with your decision, and seeing your happy healthy son, will plant the seed for her that not circ'ing is an option. If she brings it up again, then by all means let her know the facts in a way that isn't attacking her past decisions. If she gets on the defense, chances are she won't be open to changing her way of thinking.

As far as your "approval" of her as a partner, I would just as leery of the fact that they are living together only weeks after he broke up with a "long-time" girlfriend.

[Microsoap]

I would have personally corrected her ignorant statement about it being "cleaner" to be circ'd by stating the foreskin PROTECTS the meatus (pee slit) from bacteria and that a fresh open wound subjected to urine and feces WILL most definitely be prone to trap bacteria. I'd say: I'm sorry you feel for that myth... a lot of parents unfortunately do. Here's some info I printed off for you when I was online and thought of you. (say it like that)

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

I'm one _not_ to let stereotypes go when it comes to this issue.

[thixle]

Can I rant about something similar, too? A very good friend gave birth to a beautiful girl last night (everyone doing great!).
I met the friend's mom, and seeing as we were the only women, we shared our birth stories. It was just so heartbreaking to hear what was done to her- shaved, enema, unable to see her babies for days. At one point, we were watching the babies in the nursery and we watched the nurses bathe a new boy. Before I thought about it, I said "I hope they leave his foreskin alone."
The new granny told me her son had been circ'ed on the delivery table. She had it done because she heard a lot of men and boys had problems if they didn't. I wish I had elequently said something, but just kind of stammered that it was amazing how different birth was 30 years ago- and that most doctors didn't know how to care for intact boys, and often gave bad advice that resulted in circ, perpetuating it.
Almost in the next breath, she said that she tried so hard to bf, but her son just kept screaming for days and wouldn't nurse. Her milk came in and he "just couldn't get anything out" and he would scream at one breast, and only take the other. And her milk would just spray out everywhere. She called her mother crying, and her mother said the baby was starving, so they started formula and never looked back. It just broke my heart. That poor baby. He was in pain, her breasts were engorged and he couldn't latch. And there was no one there to help her. And the mother never made the connection.
When the friend was born, she was premature, and she wasn't ALLOWED to see her for 3 days. When she tried to bf, she was engorged and the friend was already on formula anyway...

My heart is just breaking for all those mothers who have been treated so horribly by the medical profession.

I am so happy that the friend has access to so much information, and is striving her hardest to bf... (and wouldn't circ a son, didn't want a medicalized birth- and did GREAT, too!) And I'm happy that the new grandmother is being supportive, even though her experiences were the opposite.

[LavenderMae]

Originally Posted by amandaleigh37

Well she probably was taken off guard by you "mentioning" your son's foreskin in passing conversation... with someone you just met. Unless you were purposely trying to see what her reaction would be.

I don't get this reaction. If I was talking to a friend about finding a new ped I'm sure I would talk about why too.

[fruitful womb]

If I was in your situation I would have refuted the bacteria in a newborn causing infection myth and show her pictures of a circ wound getting infected with MSRA. There is a greater chance of a circ wound getting infected than an intact newborn having an infection period. Its shut tight for a reason which is to protect the newborn. I'm generally rude to people IRL when their misinformation comes across as arrogant. That irritates the hell out of me. I'm the outcast of this family and treated as such and I don't care.

My ds was born in April too. He is also in the 97th% and wears 18 mo clothes b/c 12 mo is way to tight on him. and he is EXBF.

[polka123]

so MANY people just believe whatever a Dr or whoever tells them b/c it's been done this way for a long time..

it's not even ignorance.... JMHO, I find when I gently try to correct myths about intactness & b'feeding.. I find many people get downright nasty, know-it-all, don't even want to hear it....b/c they heard from a friend, fam member or Dr...

that's what I encounter, at least here in PA which is so mainstream that I've seen 3 other slings since having DS 4 yrs ago, maybe a handful of other b/fers & it has approx 90% circ rate. :

it's so very sad... I call them "brainwashed pod-people" .. MUST circ - its cleaner & looks gross, bottle formula feed - it's easier, must vax - you're baby will die, I'm 1 day overdue - must induce, etc..
it's this drone, brain-dead speech

:

[Devaskyla]

Sounds like they used the plastibell for her son's circumcision. I know there's a thread here about what it involves, which most definitely does include cutting. Maybe you could print out the info for her?

[MommytoB]

I would have been a smart mouth your afraid bacteria would get in the foreskin but you open up the penis by allowing bacteria to be more susceptible to get on the penis by exposing it besides allowing a wound how do you think a wound covered in feces and urine is bacteria free-then i would roll eyes

[QuietTempest]

I wanted to be a smart mouth. I wanted to show the pictures. At the same time, though, I wanted to make a good impression. Meeting someone for the first time and all, I didn't want their initial thought of me to be "Oh, that crazy woman who showed me pictures of baby penises and told me I was wrong about blah, blah, blah.", y'know?

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore because my friend is no longer keeping the company of that girl. I think the poor guy just jumped into a rebound relationship and things got ugly in short order. She's back where ever she came from. With a little luck, she'll run into other moms who are a little more up to speed in terms of infant care and parenting in general.

Thanks for letting me vent a bit, ladies, and Thixle I'm sorry you had to sit through that. I find myself getting so upset in situations like the one you described (to the point of nervous shaking!) that I tend to avoid them altogether anymore. I'm quite content to visit here and talk or listen amongst other mothers who share similar, if not same, ideals when it comes to children.

[KBecks]

I would try to take the most positive view and say she is tragically uninformed or misinformed.

I don't think that one's views on circ and breastfeeding are the primary measure of whether someone is a good person or not, particularly if they've never been exposed to real information about either.

I'm sorry it was a disappointing evening for you. Eventually more and more people will come to understand the harms of circ.

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by amandaleigh37

Well she probably was taken off guard by you "mentioning" your son's foreskin in passing conversation... with someone you just met. Unless you were purposely trying to see what her reaction would be?

Yes it does seem like she's naive and ignorant, but I think we all were at some point about some of these issues.... at least I know I was! I think it's important that if you do bring it up again, you do so very gently and with the goal of educating and not criticizing her. I think in situations like this, less is more. Just seeing you be happy with your decision, and seeing your happy healthy son, will plant the seed for her that not circ'ing is an option. If she brings it up again, then by all means let her know the facts in a way that isn't attacking her past decisions. If she gets on the defense, chances are she won't be open to changing her way of thinking.

As far as your "approval" of her as a partner, I would just as leery of the fact that they are living together only weeks after he broke up with a "long-time" girlfriend.

I totally agree!! I can't find the yeah that smiley. I get so overwhelmed by all of them in the listings.

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