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washed her mouth out with soap!! - Page 2

post #21 of 83
I've been immersed in and practicing GD since my son was first born. My son spit in my face once when he was about 3. I smacked him on the leg. Hard. It was so awful I can hardly stand to think about it. It's the one time in his 7 years that I've hit him (or even come close to hitting him). I say this only to point out that spitting in someone's face is such a personal affront that it can drive even GD people to lash out with pure, gut reaction.

I agree that what your husband did was completely unacceptable and that it's imperative that he learn methods of discipline that are not abusive. I don't think that threatening to divorce him is going to get you there. IME, fathers (and mothers, of course) cannot approach a situation rationally when someone is threatening to take their child away.

At the very least, let him know that this could poison your daughter. Then try using some GD on him. You can be firm in asserting your boundaries and also be respectful - just as you would do with your child.
post #22 of 83
Forcing a child to ingest soap can be life-threatening if the child reacts to any ingredients, and it is quite possible that she will be somewhat sick just from the taste. It is abusive, dangerous and there should be no compromise on this particular issue.
post #23 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
I've been immersed in and practicing GD since my son was first born. My son spit in my face once when he was about 3. I smacked him on the leg. Hard. It was so awful I can hardly stand to think about it. It's the one time in his 7 years that I've hit him (or even come close to hitting him). I say this only to point out that spitting in someone's face is such a personal affront that it can drive even GD people to lash out with pure, gut reaction.

I agree that what your husband did was completely unacceptable and that it's imperative that he learn methods of discipline that are not abusive. I don't think that threatening to divorce him is going to get you there. IME, fathers (and mothers, of course) cannot approach a situation rationally when someone is threatening to take their child away.

At the very least, let him know that this could poison your daughter. Then try using some GD on him. You can be firm in asserting your boundaries and also be respectful - just as you would do with your child.
Allow me to clarify my position then...

I would work VERY hard to make him understand. If, in the end, he flattly refused to change & intended to continue the abuse he would be gone. My child will not live like that.

And re: the rest of your post. I hit my oldest child once too. The look of horror in his precious face was more than enough to convince me I was a jerk & never to do it again. :
post #24 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulce de leche View Post
Forcing a child to ingest soap can be life-threatening if the child reacts to any ingredients, and it is quite possible that she will be somewhat sick just from the taste. It is abusive, dangerous and there should be no compromise on this particular issue.
:
post #25 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmzbm View Post
I would work VERY hard to make him understand. If, in the end, he flattly refused to change & intended to continue the abuse he would be gone. My child will not live like that.
That I absolutely agree with.

And right back to you. I bawled like a baby when it happened. Seeing the look on his face was like a blow to the stomach. So horrifying. I don't know how people can ever think it's acceptable to make their children feel like that.
post #26 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
That I absolutely agree with.

And right back to you. I bawled like a baby when it happened. Seeing the look on his face was like a blow to the stomach. So horrifying. I don't know how people can ever think it's acceptable to make their children feel like that.
Nor do I.
post #27 of 83
Actually, according to the CPS manuals in many states, that is clearly stated to be abusive and may be grounds for removal. Perhaps that tidbit will help your husband to curb his tantrums.
post #28 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
Actually, according to the CPS manuals in many states, that is clearly stated to be abusive and may be grounds for removal. Perhaps that tidbit will help your husband to curb his tantrums.
:

post #29 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal View Post
I'm at work right now and called DH-he told me he just washed out 3year old dd's mouth with soap because she spit at him-she was happy all day-I'm not sure what happened to make her do that-I hung up on DH because he started ranting and raving about me alaways trying to get him to parent differently-I think this manner of disciplining is so wrong !!I have one more hour to go here at work -and I'm so upset!!What would you do???

Eh....

She'll live.


What would I do?

I would calmly (calmly) have a discussion with my hubby and let him know what I expected. I would also talk to him about his expectations. We would work it out.... No biggie.....

Your hubby was probably stressed. He had a bad day. People make mistakes......
post #30 of 83
Well, yes people make mistakes, but it took a long time to make that one. It would have had to have happened, he'd have had to react, decide to wash the kid's mouth out, drag said kid to the bathroom, hold them down and do it. I can understand slapping out of reaction but not so much with the drawn out stuff.

I had my mouth washed out several times and it sucked. Honestly in hindsight it was very intrusive, almost in a rapelike way. Being held down, struggling and having something crammed in my mouth. I guess it was meant to be analagous to "cleaning" my "dirty" mouth (I still curse like a sailor, thank ya kindly), but it just seems mean. And for spitting, I particularly don't get how it was a "fitting" punishment. I guess it was meant to inflict discomfort in the offending area.

I don't imagine that he was being intentionally abusive, but it does qualify as abuse in my book. Sometimes people fall back on the old standards of discipline (which unfortunately this one qualifies as) without thinking them through.
post #31 of 83
I'd have a very serious chat with the husband. I'd explain the difference between discipline and abuse. I'd suggest some family therapy to help you all find some common ground on discipline. Kids spit. It's not like she tried to stab him. My 1st went through a spitting stage. We redirected her outside. Spit as much as you want there. I can't imagine loving a man who would do such a thing. It would cause great harm to my marriage.
post #32 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datura View Post
Well, yes people make mistakes, but it took a long time to make that one. It would have had to have happened, he'd have had to react, decide to wash the kid's mouth out, drag said kid to the bathroom, hold them down and do it. I can understand slapping out of reaction but not so much with the drawn out stuff.
I think this is what impacted me the most when I read the OP. Mouth washing is deliberate and drawn out. Had she posted "My husband popped her on the mouth" I'd be more inclined to say, "You know, maybe he was at his wit's end, and GD goes out the window sometimes when you're most stressed It's not right, but for next time a better idea for him would be ..." Because popping and slapping tend to be knee jerk reactions (they spit, you slap, they touch the stove you pop their hands). It's not right, but these can be chalked up to heat of the moment mistakes, I'm sure many MDC moms and dads have made them here, and I don't consider them abuse (unless it happens every single day, then you've got a temper problem.). But to drag your kid to the bathroom or kitchen, and hold them down while washing out their mouth is not a spur of the moment action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lab View Post
Eh....

She'll live.


What would I do?

I would calmly (calmly) have a discussion with my hubby and let him know what I expected. I would also talk to him about his expectations. We would work it out.... No biggie.....

Your hubby was probably stressed. He had a bad day. People make mistakes......
Note above. This was deliberate, not a mistake. A mistake would have been popping her on the mouth. And I'm sure she'll live, but with what? Fear of her father? Being traumatized, getting sick? I don't pretend to know the sensitivity level of her 3 year old daughter. Sure, the girl may bounce back like nothing ever happened...or...she may decide to clam up and never try anything new for fear of punishment, or avoid the bathroom, or any other reaction within that spectrum. We don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
I'd have a very serious chat with the husband. I'd explain the difference between discipline and abuse. I'd suggest some family therapy to help you all find some common ground on discipline. Kids spit. It's not like she tried to stab him. My 1st went through a spitting stage. We redirected her outside. Spit as much as you want there. I can't imagine loving a man who would do such a thing. It would cause great harm to my marriage.
I definitely think some serious therapy is needed here. The husband has some issues that he needs to work out from his childhood, and he needs to be informed that these are unacceptable ways to parent.

And I do put myself in the OP's shoes. If my husband were to tell me he hit dd in the heat of the moment, I'd be angry at first, but we would work it out and help him find ways to not get to that point again. (Redirect, time out for daddy, etc) If he called me to say he washed her mouth out, or used tabasco or hit her with an implement, I'd be home in a flash and he'd be out the door even faster. He knows that is completely unacceptable.
post #33 of 83
Yikes.

Therapy, for sure. NOt b/c there's some HUGE thing wrong with your family, but b/c if you all are at a point where he's locked into "his" way and resentful of you for trying to change it, and you're at the point where you're hanging up on him--it sounds like a neutral, third-party, mediator might REALLY help you all get through to each other much faster (and without further damaging the relationship).

I would be *out of my mind* if my husband did that to our children.

My head would EXPLODE if he went on to defend it and be angry with *me* about it.

I would talk about possible poisons, violating people's bodies (esp. a girl), how it would seriously CHANGE the way I looked at him (and probably the way our kids looked at him), ask him how he would feel if it were done to him (or if he watched someone else do it to our child), and very firmly state that that sort of discipline was 100% OFF THE TABLE for ANYone with my children. And I'd let him know when the counselling appt. was and that he was welcome to come, but I would be going either way to work through my feelings on this matter.

I'm so sorry this happened! Healing hugs for all of you as you work through it!
post #34 of 83
I'm so sorry this happened to your DD.
I totally agree with everything the pp Monkey's Mom said, and that is what I would do.
It's just so degrading and humiliating, let's hope your DC and DH can quickly fix the bond between them that has been hurt.
post #35 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by lab View Post
Eh....

She'll live.


What would I do?

I would calmly (calmly) have a discussion with my hubby and let him know what I expected. I would also talk to him about his expectations. We would work it out.... No biggie.....

Your hubby was probably stressed. He had a bad day. People make mistakes......
And she would "live" if he beat her too, likely!

I sure hope your DH never sticks soap in YOUR mouth & tells YOU "you'll live."

Just because she didn't literally die doesn't mean it wasn't a discusting & humiliating thing to endure.
post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by paquerette View Post
Actually, according to the CPS manuals in many states, that is clearly stated to be abusive and may be grounds for removal. Perhaps that tidbit will help your husband to curb his tantrums.
In Ontario that would get CAS involved.
post #37 of 83
Honestly?

I'd throw his ass out until he learned to stop abusing my kid. My tolerance for this kind of crap is 0%.
post #38 of 83
Quote:
I think this is what impacted me the most when I read the OP. Mouth washing is deliberate and drawn out. Had she posted "My husband popped her on the mouth" I'd be more inclined to say, "You know, maybe he was at his wit's end, and GD goes out the window sometimes when you're most stressed It's not right, but for next time a better idea for him would be ..." Because popping and slapping tend to be knee jerk reactions (they spit, you slap, they touch the stove you pop their hands). It's not right, but these can be chalked up to heat of the moment mistakes, I'm sure many MDC moms and dads have made them here, and I don't consider them abuse (unless it happens every single day, then you've got a temper problem.). But to drag your kid to the bathroom or kitchen, and hold them down while washing out their mouth is not a spur of the moment action.
This is what I am thinking too. What he did was deliberate, and he called to brag about it. I would be a mess if I got a call like that from my DH -- partly because it happened, partly because it represents a larger problem that is going to be hard to work through. I feel sick for you, OP, because you are in a tough spot. I personally would not feel comfortable leaving the kids alone with their father again. Which puts you in a terrible position.
post #39 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
That I absolutely agree with.

And right back to you. I bawled like a baby when it happened. Seeing the look on his face was like a blow to the stomach. So horrifying. I don't know how people can ever think it's acceptable to make their children feel like that.


I would say your reaction was more a sort of knee-jerk - but this guy had to go get the soap, force it in her mouth, et cetera. That's beyond knee-jerk mistake.
post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaWindmill View Post
Honestly?

I'd throw his ass out until he learned to stop abusing my kid. My tolerance for this kind of crap is 0%.
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