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Preschool age children in "I am Legend" - Page 9

post #161 of 200
12/30/07 at 6:05pm
I've only seen about half of it so far, but there's no way I'd let a child that age watch it. It scared ME. I actually screamed once or twice.

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post #162 of 200
12/30/07 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
You have so many assumptions there....that outside they are "using their imaginations" but if they were watching tv/movies/videogames/etc they would not be; that a child cannot truly make a choice if s/he sees ads/marketing (i havent found that true with my own child....he's been known to research some cool gadget on the internet to find out if its really as neat or useful as the infomercial claims); that having an interest sparked by something seen on tv is somehow less valid than an interest sparked elsewhere; that such an interest isnt "really" what moves a child, that somehow that child is merely a puppet of marketeers...?; you say that your kids have a "real choice"...but if that choice includes something you dont necessarily "approve" of, do they still get to choose? and that entertainment will look the same for all people.....i hate hate hate sports programming...i simply cannot understand why someone would want to sit and watch a ball game. I dont get it....i would be bored to tears. And yet some people find that entertaining.....to each his or her own i suppose.

Katherine
But your child is 11 and that is a whole different thing than being 3 or 5. At the preschool age many kids who are using imagination are doing so in a way that directly relates to the movie they just watched instead of inventing something new. At 11 they have a natural desire to search farther away from the nuclear family, they are beginning the independence phase of growth. I have an almost 7 year old that is just entering the outside of that world and I can see how his interests are changing as is how he reacts to the world around him.

My 4 year old is just in love with *everything* I don't approve of. And it is his choice as to what he wants to play with or learn about. He is really into weapons (he got a catapult and a sword for xmas). It is his choice. But at 4 he is still in that dreamy preschoolers world. I prefer to allow him to stay that way until whatever needs are met by that phase (physically, emotionally, etc) are actually met. I see no point of placing him in a position where he will have to make choices like "can I handle watching a bloody decapitation" or "do I want that toy because it looks like fun or because the commercial made it look really cool".

An older child will be better equipped to make those choices. Especially if they are given lots of choice and are treated with respect. I see a huge part of that as allowing to make choices that they are developmentally ready for. What mortgage company to go with would fall outside that range as would watching excessively brutal movies. I don't think they are even aware there are such things as it hasn't been something they have any experience with.
post #163 of 200
12/30/07 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama View Post
The problem isn't that kids think it is real. It is that the same areas in the viewer's brain are activated as would be if they were actually comitting the act involved. Not just in hacker movies, but even in sports. If I am sitting across from someone who is eating the areas in my brain that control picking up the fork, chewing, and swallowing are active. Just by watching. It doesn't matter whether you are 5 months or 50 years, it works the same and has been observed on MRI. MRIs don't take into account how you parent or how much "choice" you have, they just show what is there and what is happening.

So a 5 year old who is watching someone cut off their own foot has a brain who has re-enacted cutting off a foot. No biased studies at work, just the way our brains work. And at the age of 5 that seems a little much to handle.
You can quote all the "science" you want (and i dont really have the inclination to go read the so called research, threads like this increase my heartrate, i dont think i have the stomach for whole papers or books on the subject)....but all i really need to do(all anyone really needs to do)is look at my kid. Thats what i did when the doctor said he needed formula, or when the AAP said cosleeping is dangerous, or when i was accused of risking my child's life by not vaxing. I just looked at my kid...is he healthy? Is he happy? Is this meeting his needs?

You dont think being hooked up to some machine that records brainwaves, in an artificial lab, with strangers poking and prodding you....is a completely different situation than a child, with involved parents, discussing, sharing, being together.....

it just comes down to brain waves right? watching a zombie in a movie is just exactly the same as being eaten by a zombie in real life?

I think as unschoolma wrote....we've reached an impasse. I dont think this is a gulf i can jump over. I just dont get this argument at all, as it has no bearing whatsoever on our real lives, or my real kid.

Are they hooking kids up to MRI machines while their teachers drone on and on in the classroom? If they discovered that that uses the same part of the brain as any other form of torture...what then?


Katherine
post #164 of 200
12/30/07 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama View Post
But your child is 11 and that is a whole different thing than being 3 or 5.
There are people in this thread who have stated that they don't think "I Am Legend" is appropriate for kids in the 10-13 yr old range. I was stating my experience with that. My 11yo was changed (in a good, thought provoking way)by the movie. Its sad to me that some on this thread think my son should not have had that experience.

Yes, of course, at 11 my son is ready developmentally for things he was not ready for at 8 or at 5 or at 3....kids grow and learn every day. But there isnt one point at which you say "ok now you can choose"...its a gradual thing. There is a world of gray, a whole spectrum, between saying to your little child "No, you are not allowed to watch that, forget it, how horrible" and saying "sure, watch whatever, here ya go, have fun, hope ya dont get scared!"....there is ALOT of discussion, support, caution, preparation that can fall between those two extremes.


Katherine
post #165 of 200
12/30/07 at 7:18pm
My ds1 went to see it yesterday and it's rated 15 here. There is no way you could take a 5 year old to see it. Why is it rated differently where you are?
post #166 of 200
12/30/07 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
uhhh, i'm pretty sure those "parents of teens" were at one time "parents of five yr olds" yknow? I'm pretty sure someone like Unschoolma parents her teen the same way as she'd parent a five yr old, with open communication, respect, and mindfulness. Just guessing though.


Katherine
I'm a little confused here. It seems like you're saying that Unschoolma's policy on media exposure equates to parenting with open communication, respect, and mindfulness and, so, it would follow that people who don't adopt that policy don't parent with open communication, respect, and mindfulness? Am I getting that right?
post #167 of 200
12/30/07 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post
Also, I'm arguing against content, not media. My kids have plenty of media exposure.
Same here.

And whether or not you agree with studies, I have a hard time understanding how you argue with the science of brain development and response. Unless all of the experts are wrong on that, too?
post #168 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:05pm
Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be. My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.
post #169 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
I'm a little confused here. It seems like you're saying that Unschoolma's policy on media exposure equates to parenting with open communication, respect, and mindfulness and, so, it would follow that people who don't adopt that policy don't parent with open communication, respect, and mindfulness? Am I getting that right?
No, thats not what i meant....what i meant was that i assume that even though unschoolma has teens, that when those teens were little ones, she parented them the same way....so it doesnt matter that she has teens now, because had this thread existed when her kids were little, she would still be making the same arguments, because she would be parenting the same way (this is assuming she was....for sake of argument.) It seemed like some posters were saying "Its easy for you to have these arguments, you have teens, of course you will give them more freedom" (paraphrase), but my point is that there are lots and lots of parents, esp unschooling parents, who parent in the same way, who have three or four year olds. Its not just the priveledge of having older kids. It applies to little ones too.

Katherine
post #170 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 
Wow! So I started this thread and between the holidays and out-of-town guests haven't been back online since it had about 8 responses. What a bunch of discussion, I feel a bit like a troll :

Anyway, a couple of thoughts after reading most of the posts...

I wouldn't have know that the kids were in the theater if they hadn't been crying and begging to leave. We rarely go to the movies and I hardly want to spend my time there worrying about what other people are doing. Once I realized that the kids were there, I did notice some other older kids in the theater probably between 10 & 12ish and didn't think about it too much, I always figure that the "13" is just a guideline. It also prevents children who are under 13 from buying the tickets WITHOUT their parents knowledge. If parents feel their children are up to it then they can make their own decisions.

Somebody mentioned that people who don't take their kids to these films probably just don't like this sort of stuff - that is not true of myself and dh and I am sure many others. The last film we saw in the theater without the kids was Children of Men. DH and I recently watched the Reaping at home, as well as 28 Days & Weeks later. I just choose not to take my little kids to see them.

I do understand how ratings can serve as a form of censorship (I vaguely remember writing an indepth paper on how the threat of an X rating caused major and unfortunate changes to the film Wild Orchid in college ) As for whether not taking children to adult movies is a form of censorship or restriction - that might be true if children were begging to see these films rather than agreeing to go along. My 7 year old begged and begged to see a child-focused PG-13 movie so he and I watched it together. The fact is that little children look to us for guidance regarding what to do - if I say to my kids "Do you want to go to the movies and see I am Legend or Saw they will probably say yes and go along with us. If I instead offer Alvin and the Chipmunks, a trip to a museum or a skate rink they will probably say yes to that as well. We tend to let them make the suggestions or give them a range of options based on what we can afford and think THEY will enjoy and will create happy positive child-focused fun rather than assuming they are little versions of us and will have fun doing what WE want to do. Regardless of what folks say about consensual living, dh and I have more influence over what the family does than the kids (we decided what state/house we live in, what careers and thus spending money we have, whether we have cable, what church we attend, etc. etc. etc.) Adults have power and responsibility...as parents we work hard not to misuse it.

From my perspective, beyond the horror zombie aspect this was a really thought provoking film that raises really interesting questions about the concept of humans as species that could become extinct, vaxs, medical ethics, community vrs. family responsibility, that are really super heavy and not questions that MOST (not ALL, but MOST four year olds spend their time thinking about). Anyway, my older kids saw Alvin and the Chipmunks instead. DH said he hated every single minute of it, but I doubt the kids know since he didn't cry and beg to leave

Peace out - Happy New Year!
post #171 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccalou79 View Post
Yes, it is a serious question. I have no way of knowing you've had that sort of discussion before, unless I ask. Remember that you yourself, in this very thread, have noted how people shouldn't assume things. So no need to pull out all those exasperated-looking emoticons, okay?
Since I've already said that we discuss what we are watching and model gentleness/non-violent communication at home, that should have answered your question. You were being patronizing, plain and simple.
post #172 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be. My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.

Yep.

Thats the thing with these studies...they can say "oh, heart rate increased" or "oh look, the same area is activated when you do X as when Y happens"...but they can't say what that means for each individual child, if its good, bad, or indifferent.

I have yet to read thread upon thread about the evils of rollercoasters.

That being said, if i were in a theater,and there were children there crying, i think i'd be within my rights to complain to management (just like any other disturbance)....although i'm offended that some theaters won't allow nurslings in to R rated movies "at any time" (thats our local theater)...i was able to take my son to TONS of movies until he was about 8 months old, then he was too vocal and squirmy...it wasnt too loud, and if you are worried about that there are ways to protect the ears or dull the noise (such as sitting in the back, baby wearing a hat over the ears etc.)


Katherine
post #173 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:28pm
I have been to movies where it is very violent and graphic and there were pre-schoolers. Some parents just don't get it!

Be well,
post #174 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama View Post
They have a REAL choice in what they want in life as they are not bombarded with ads and marketing.
Kids who see commercials and marketing can also be capable of making free decisions about what they like and don't like. While my daughter is nowhere near bombarded with advertising (she doesn't generally watch tv with commercials), she is very particular about her likes and dislikes. She hates Dora, for instance, despite having cousins who love and are obsessed with the character . . . most of her "likes" are things her friends and cousins don't know anything about or don't enjoy.

She also has an incredible imagination, loves the outdoors and would choose being read to, playing a game, or doing a craft over any other activities, given the option. I just don't believe that media exposed kids are automatically mindless drones who cannot think for themselves. It's not at all true of me as a child, nor of my daughter. We are both not only creative people but are incredibly strong in our opinions (many/most of which differ from a lot of our peers).
post #175 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be. My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.
I (obviously) agree.
post #176 of 200
12/30/07 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessy1019 View Post
Since I've already said that we discuss what we are watching and model gentleness/non-violent communication at home, that should have answered your question. You were being patronizing, plain and simple.
If I had had time to read this entire thread today, you would be right. However, I have only been able to skim here and there, and I apparently missed the bit where you talked about gentleness at home, etc. I asked you those earlier questions out of genuine curiosity and to get a better grasp of the situation, but I'm tired of your snarky responses; I learn nothing from these kinds of exchanges.

Have a good night.
post #177 of 200
12/30/07 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Are they hooking kids up to MRI machines while their teachers drone on and on in the classroom? If they discovered that that uses the same part of the brain as any other form of torture...what then?
Of course. That IS torture
post #178 of 200
12/30/07 at 11:04pm
Quote:
You had your child watch the Saw Trilogy. Wow. That's just abusive.
Mine watched it, too. Big whoop I guess you'd better call CPS on me.
post #179 of 200
12/30/07 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
There are people in this thread who have stated that they don't think "I Am Legend" is appropriate for kids in the 10-13 yr old range. I was stating my experience with that. My 11yo was changed (in a good, thought provoking way)by the movie. Its sad to me that some on this thread think my son should not have had that experience.

Yes, of course, at 11 my son is ready developmentally for things he was not ready for at 8 or at 5 or at 3....kids grow and learn every day. But there isnt one point at which you say "ok now you can choose"...its a gradual thing. There is a world of gray, a whole spectrum, between saying to your little child "No, you are not allowed to watch that, forget it, how horrible" and saying "sure, watch whatever, here ya go, have fun, hope ya dont get scared!"....there is ALOT of discussion, support, caution, preparation that can fall between those two extremes.


Katherine
The thread title is "Preschool age children in "I am Legend" so I am referring to preschool age children. Much of the fighting seems to be in reference to those very young children. Children who are really not at a developmental age at which you can really discuss what will be seen in movies like Saw or Hostel.

In our case there will be no magic point at which they can choose. At this point they are not even aware that such movies exist and even if they did they would have absolutely no desire to watch them. It is not even on their radar. I would assume that at the point when it becomes desirable we will approach it much as you have. Discussion, reading about what they may see, spoilers, etc. That would be the developmentally appropriate approach at that point.

I don't believe the claims that a 2, 3, or 4 year old was ready to converse about Saw and decide for herself that she wanted to see it. I can't even imagine that most kids would be aware of movies like under most normal circumstances.

The growing, learning, and changing every day is what eventually brings kids around to that ability (along with support and experience along the way). Why encourage that phase prematurely?
post #180 of 200
12/30/07 at 11:15pm
Quote:
I don't believe the claims that a 2, 3, or 4 year old was ready to converse about Saw and decide for herself that she wanted to see it.
I don't believe the sky is blue or grass is green. Doesn't make me right.
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