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Supreme Court Will Not Review Judge Moore's Case re Ten Commandments

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Woohoo! I'm so glad rational minds and sound legal principles prevailed here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Aug20.html

Quote:
The Supreme Court refused Wednesday to block the removal of a Ten Commandments monument from an Alabama judicial building, rejecting a last-minute appeal from the judge who installed the display.
post #2 of 57
Thanks for the news.
post #3 of 57
When I am appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Maryland, one of my first acts in office will be to put up outside the courthouse a statue/tablet/other representational device of every God recognized by every major religion practiced by Maryland's residents. All 1,234,2456 of them. Gods (and goddesses) that is, not residents.

edited for some truly wacky grammar.
post #4 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother

I'm listening to Judge Moore right now and he IS up holding Alabama's state constitution which FULLY RECOGNIZES God and Moore is sworn to uphold it and I believe he will at all cost.
Oh, for heaven's sakes. I just did a search, and other than oaths ("so help me God"), the Alabama Constitution mentions God once: in its preamble. Here it is:

Quote:
We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama
Puh-leeze.

Incidentally, which god is it to which the preamble refers? Does it specify?

I'm beginning to think some folks ought to go declare their own theistic country - somewhere way over there - if they want church and state to be entwined.
post #5 of 57
yes, Jane! A fabulous idea! Let's paint a mural, big and bold and beautiful, including every pantheon, deity, Goddess and God conceivable! I honestly think that would be awe-inspiring and might even bring the realization that this country is comprised of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, LDS, Pagan, Wiccan, Bahai, Buddhists, Humanists, Spiritualists, and more and more than I can name. I'm a painter! I'd like to take part in something like that. But then, where will the agnostics and the atheists be represented? They need to be heard too. Their voices are equally as important and they must be represented.

It would take a lot of space and a great mind to conceive of a design to include us all. (That's what the Constitution is striving for). God and not-God together make for a very large concept indeed.

I think the Declaration of Independence said it best: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

That means atheists, agnostics, and the faithful too. Nobody gets to hog the podium, at least they're not supposed too. Public space, particularly seats of government, need to be sanctuaries for all the people.
post #6 of 57




I think if one religion is recognized then they all should be.

Uh...I think a mural on various religions would be kind of hard. I can go to a website and be made a diety, and then I could demand my pic in the mural as well. Well...that is if it was a state sponsored thing..

I just think it would be something that could easily get out of hand.
post #7 of 57
I also saw Judge Moore on the news tonight. I thought he was mentally ill; he obviously needs psychiatric help. It's not right to have someone that is mentally unsound in a position of authority. People's lives can be destroyed by his rulings.
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Moore has scheduled a Thursday afternoon press conference at the Alabama Supreme Court to announce whether he will obey the court order to remove the sculpture.
If he doesn't take it out, he should be charged with contempt, and have his sorry ass thrown in jail.
post #9 of 57
The following list delineates the crimes for which the offender is to be
stoned:

* 1st Commandment
Transgression/Other Gods Before Yahweh - Exodus 22:20; Deuteronomy 13:1-10;
17:2-5; Luke 19:27; Romans 1:30-32
* Witchcraft - Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27
* Contempt of Court - Deuteronomy 17:5, 9-13
* 2nd Commandment
Transgression/Idolatry -
Exodus 22:20; Deuteronomy 13:1-10; Romans 1:30-32
* 3rd Commandment
Transgression/Blasphemy -
Leviticus 24:10-16, 23; John 10:30-33
* 4th Commandment
Transgression/Sabbath
Desecration - Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36
* 5th Commandment
Transgression/Extreme
Cases of Child Rebellion - Exodus 21:15 (striking one's parents); Exodus
21:17, Leviticus 20:9 (cursing one's parents); Deuteronomy 21:18-23
(stubbornness, rebellion, gluttony and drunkenness); Romans 1:30-32
* 6th Commandment
Transgression/Murder -
Genesis 9:5-6; Exodus 21:12, 14, 28-31; Leviticus 20:2; 24:17, 21; Numbers
35:16-21, 30-31, 33-34; Deuteronomy 19:11-13, 21; Romans 1:29-324
* Kidnapping - Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 24:7
* Perjury in Capital Cases - Deuteronomy 19:16-21
* 7th Commandment Transgression/Adultery - Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy
22:22-24; John 8:3-5
* Homosexuality - Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:26-32
* Incest - Leviticus 20:11-12
* Bestiality - Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 20:15-16
* Non-Virgin Deceitfully Marrying - Deuteronomy 22:13-24
* Rape - Deuteronomy 22:25-27

OK, hands up: who is in favor of public stonings for any of the above infractions??? Is this what Bob Dylan meant when he said "everybody must get stoned"?
post #10 of 57
(nevermind.... NOT getting involved)
post #11 of 57
I have been listening to this story (mostly on talk radio, admittedly), and the only thing that really runs through my head is...

"I hope that state money is not being wasted on this issue."

I can't imagine that AL has a glut of rainy-day funds in its coffers. One the one hand, it's not like our legal system even remotely enforces or follows the 10 commandments, so it seems like it tarnishes a set of very good guidelines to be associated with it. On the other, there are so many biblical references on 'official' US stuff, who gives a crap about one more. I bet nobody would have looked twice at that memorial if there wasn't a lawsuit, just like no conservative but John Ashcroft wigs out over statues of 'Justice' and other personifications of principles artfully depicted like greek statues.

Yes, yes, I know. Separation of church and state is a Really Important Issue. But sometimes I think both sides act pretty stupidly. Especially in matters involving PUBLIC MONEY.

Somebody please tell me there is no tax $$ being spent on this. :P
post #12 of 57
I'd also like to see the judge thrown in jail, and to see him have to pay all legal costs associated with this fiasco, and have him have to pay for the removal of the hunk of rock. I'd also like to see him disbarred, since he has so little regard for the judicial system.

I'd have to think about the appropriateness of stoning him, but those references of HB's are compelling, given the logic of people who think like this "judge."

I would love to see all the other references to Christianity removed from public buildings in the US. I'm Christian, btw.
post #13 of 57
ITA with HB. Let's stone him!!! (the judge, not HB. Although a few of you might wish to ........)


The 10 commandments are OT - the punishments are OT. I think it would fit well into the judge's plan.

The whole deal is a crock. Including all the references to god elsewhere............as if paying homage to god can get us something. 'Cause sure as hell we don't act like a christian nation..............


El
post #14 of 57
BTW Hilary, we are not worried abt tax money spent on the plaque, it has been well documented that was the judge's own money, rather the money spent on the court time ad nauseum.
post #15 of 57
We watched it last night. Seems very confusing..yet interesting.

If they remove this one, they should remove them all. If they let this one stay, all should stay.


The founding fathers came to America to escape religious persecution, and many of them were Deists, not Theists. They believed in equality for all religious and non-religious. Not just Christianity. If statues are going to be put up in our governement buildings, no one should have a problem with a statue of Buddha being put up either, or Greek Gods, or Pagan Gods/Goddesses.

Just my opinion.
post #16 of 57
Thread Starter 
NM, there are more respectable sources regarding the intent of the founding fathers - and how that intent must be malleable over time, in order to have a living constitution - than an online dictionary. You might want to start with the Federalist Papers, and go from there to the works of various constitutional scholars.

As many have already pointed out, many of the original white settlers in North America left their original countries to escape religious persecution, and did not want to see such persecution perpetuated on U.S. soil. Yet what you propose would in fact encourage religious persecution and demean those of all faiths, including Christians.

We do not live in a theocracy. If you wish to live in a theocracy, then feel free to join one of the various cult communes already in existence, or to start one of your own.
post #17 of 57
for the supreme court.
post #18 of 57
given it is all going down in alabama...

I wonder if that plaque would have helped stopped Slavery and Jim Crow laws..
post #19 of 57
Thread Starter 
Holy cats! I didn't realize it bore the inscription "LAW OF NATURE AND OF NATURE'S GOD" on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/na...-JUDGE.html?hp

Wow, how offensive. And I can't imagine how anyone could think that wouldn't run afoul of the Establishment Clause.

Also
Quote:
I wonder if that plaque would have helped stopped Slavery and Jim Crow laws..
:LOL I believe the "Law of Nature" was presumed to entail that "colored" people were subservient to whites, if not altogether subhuman. An Old Testament passage was commonly cited in support; I forget which one, presently.
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Marlena
Holy cats! I didn't realize it bore the inscription "LAW OF NATURE AND OF NATURE'S GOD" on it.

I just saw this on CNN. I'm a little shocked. Not very inclusive is it?
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