Urgent advice needed on coming out to young children.

[smallqueery]

Hi all, this is my first post and I could really do with some advice. I am separating from my partner of 14 years early next year and moving out with our daughter who is 8.

I know I will need to explain to my daughter at some point that I'm gay but I'm REALLY uncertain about how will be the best to go about it.

Her father wants me to be straight with her from the start. His reasoning is that he wants her to hear it from me rather than anyone else and so that she will understand that it's not her fault (I do think though there's an element of wanting to let everyone know that it's not his fault, and the sooner our daughter knows the sooner he can spread the word). He wants me to be the one who sits down with her and explains it as he doesn't feel he's very good at that kind of thing, but I want her to be able to see we are agreed on this and united in our love for her.

I though am torn, on one hand I think perhaps it would be best to be honest from the start but on the other I worry that it might be too much to expect her to deal with the seperation and the orientation issue at the same time. I also thought perhaps it would be easier to introduce a future 'friend of moms' if there were not the added pressure of it being a relationship issue from the off i.e. she could get to know the person first and not have her judgement clouded by being hurt that mommy might have found a new partner.

What does everyone think? I need opinions here - I'm going out of my mind by going round in circles on this and not knowing what to do for the best.

[smallqueery]

Pleeeease

[pranava]

Smallqueery - I don't have kids yet, but I do think kids understand a lot more than they are often given credit for. I think it might be good for you and her father to sit down together and explain this to your daughter. Then she'll see that you aren't warring with each other over this issue. I also think it's important for kids to know the reason why their parents separate right from the begining so they don't blame themselves.

I don't have any experience with this, so those are just my 2 cents. What I do know, is that the people on this MDC Queer parenting forum are very intelligent and supportive. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice soon.

[smallqueery]

Thanks Pranava I really hope so.

[Sage_SS]

I'm sorry that you're torn about this.

I'm not gay, but I have many friends who are. We, and they, explained it that everyone wants to be loved and everyone wants to love. Who they love is up to them, and the person they love. It doesn't matter if its a boy or a girl, that love doesn't know prejudice. Love doesn't care if your a girl and your love is a boy, it doesn't care if your love is a girl. If someone else cares, thats that someone's problem, not yours.

I hope you find an explanation that you are comfortable with and that she can understand. My oldest is 8 years old as well, I've been teaching her that its up to her heart to choose who she will love when she's ready.

You said something in your OP about trying to explain it to her so that she doesn't think its her fault. Are you referring to the fact that you're gay, or that you and her father are seperating? I'm confused.

[cyndimo]

I don't have any specific advice, as DS is 2yo and DP and I adopted him together.
However, I do think that it's best to come out in an age-appropriate manner sooner rather than later. When I came out to my family (all adults), I felt it was better to do so before I had a new partner. I didn't want the partner to bear the brunt of any misgivings that family had about my sexual orientation. I wanted them to be comfortable with me before introducing a new person into the family. I think it's likely to be the same with your daughter.
I don't have any great advice for the magic words to use with your daughter. I'd agree that it's better for you and your husband to do together, so your daughter does not feel it's something she needs to hide from him to protect him. But it's probably something like "some women fall in love with men, some fall in love with women. I once was in love with your father and still care for him a great deal. But, I have been doing a lot of thinking and have figured out that I am the type of woman who falls in love with women. So, your dad and I will not be married any more and we will live in different houses. We both love you very much and you will always be daughter to both of us."
There's probably a better way to say it...
Good luck!
- Cyndi

[lanamommyphd07]

I like cyndimo's idea a lot. I think it would be pretty crushing for kiddo to find this out later--and then wonder what else you didn't tell her. 8 years old is a pretty savvy age, and she's bound to be angry regardless of which combination of truths she is told. Better to get the anger and disappointment out now, rather than when you're trying to introduce a new partner and then the bomb drops.

[smallqueery]

Originally Posted by Sage_SS

I hope you find an explanation that you are comfortable with and that she can understand. My oldest is 8 years old as well, I've been teaching her that its up to her heart to choose who she will love when she's ready.

You said something in your OP about trying to explain it to her so that she doesn't think its her fault. Are you referring to the fact that you're gay, or that you and her father are seperating? I'm confused.

Thanks everyone. Sage, it's not really about how to tell her as much as in what way i.e. immediately and before a partner and let her deal with the orientation issue alongside the seperation or later once she's dealt with the seperation and perhaps after she's got to know a potential partner as a person. Re the explaination thing, her father doesn't want to explain it at all, he wants me to do it, and it's that I'm gay and that's why we are seperating so that she doesn't think we are seperating because of anything she's done.

[mean_jeannie]

Hello, smallqueery, I thought I would hop in here and give you my perspective as the daughter.

My mother left my father for a woman when I was 11. My mother sat down with me and my sister to tell us that we were moving out of the house because they were going to get a divorce. She said they had "grown apart."

Well, as pp said, children understand a lot more than we give them credit for, so it was not long before I understood what the real deal was.

But neither of them talked to me about it. When I was 14 my mom had her partner talk to me about it. I was like, "Are you kidding? What do you think, I'm an idiot?"

I was extremely resentful towards my mom for not speaking to me directly about it and it hampered our relationship all throughout my teenage years.

In fact, if I really think about it, I'm pretty sure it still peeves me, and I am now 35! lol!

So I suggest that you have this conversation with your daughter immediately. You be the one to tell her now. She will feel like you trust her and love her because of your honesty. Maybe it will help her to be honest with you in the future when she really needs you if you do this now.

As for the verbage, I thought Cyndi had a good starting point. (I can't even remember what crap my mom's partner told me anymore, I must have blocked it out!)

Good luck!

[smallqueery]

Thanks everyone for your responses so far. I can feel it becoming a little clearer.

Thank you Jeannie, I've tried to find stories from your perspective but not had much luck. Try not to feel too negative about how your mum handled it. I know that my uppermost thoughts are for my daughter and that everything I do has an impact for her. The pressure to do everything right is immense and it isn't always clear which route is the right one. Both of the choices I described above were about my daughters well being, I don't mind how hard it is for me so I'm not looking for a way which will make it easier on me, she is the most important thing in my life. I don't know her so I can't be certain but it sounds like your mum took the gradual approach of letting you deal with things seperately...or was so nervous of your reaction that she bottled out of telling you - which would indicate she wanted your approval. Until I read all the replies here I thought the two routes seemed equally the best and equally the worst, I was going round in circles trying to work out how best to go about not messing my daughters head up for the rest of her life. She's on my mind every step of this journey and I'm only telling you this because I'm certain your mother must have felt something close to how I feel, and the worst case scenario for me is that my little one might carry a burden for the rest of her life because of something I do. Thank you for telling me your story.

Right now I'm thinking I will go with the honest from the word go approach, thank you all.

[mamimapster]

Originally Posted by Sage_SS

I'm sorry that you're torn about this.

I'm not gay, but I have many friends who are. We, and they, explained it that everyone wants to be loved and everyone wants to love. Who they love is up to them, and the person they love. It doesn't matter if its a boy or a girl, that love doesn't know prejudice. Love doesn't care if your a girl and your love is a boy, it doesn't care if your love is a girl. If someone else cares, thats that someone's problem, not yours.

I hope you find an explanation that you are comfortable with and that she can understand. My oldest is 8 years old as well, I've been teaching her that its up to her heart to choose who she will love when she's ready.

I like this explanation-but I would add that this is a part of your experience, and while you may love X as a person, it is not romantic in the way that being with a person of the same gender is. I had to come out to my younger sisters for their own safety fairly early in the coming out process(serious bio-family disfuction). I already had a girlfriend, and so that did make it easier because She was someone they new and liked-they were 14 and 11 at the time. By the next year the 15 year old was living with me-and having the coming out process out of the way by the time I had to take over custody made life a lot easier-by that time I was single.

It makes me very leery that your X wants you to come out to your Dd so that he can "spread the word"-This is YOUR place to tell IMHO. I think this needs to happen, but to happen very gently so that when/if you have a new partner she doesn't feel ostracized. I would definitely do it before there is another partner in your life.

P.S. sorry I didn't have an answer sooner, I don't generally post on the Jewish Sabbath.

[mamimapster]

Oh yeah, have you checked out COLAGE? They have a website- the anacronym stands for Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere-I am sure they have coming out stories from the kids perspective that could be helpful-I have two Moms (Foster Mom and Partner), on top of my Bio-Family so I am kind of a "second generation" person.

[Chancita]

coming out

Hello,
First, congratulations on having the courage to live your life as who you are.

Second, my mom came out to me when I was 11 and explained that she and my dad were getting a divorce because she had fallen in love with a woman. She didn't tell me that she didn't love my father, but she did tell me that she had decided that they could not be together any more because she loved this other person. This was twenty years ago, and I'm not sure there's a better way to handle it today. Her girlfriend went on to live with us, so it definitely wouldn't have been appropriate to be ambiguous or fib about what was really going on.

We do our best as parents, but we must also be true to ourselves. Your daughter will love you more for your honesty than for lies or ambiguity.

Every child/parent relationship goes through tough times, especially during preteen and teenage years. Your orientation and separation may come up then, but you'll have to remind yourself that you did your daughter a favor by being honest with both yourself and her.

Good luck,
Chance

[smallqueery]

Thanks mamimapster, I tried looking for chapters of colage in the UK where we are but have had no luck, any support seems hit and miss and I really want to get something sorted so that she has some support ready before I tell her.

Thank you Chance, your post nearly made me cry. Do you mind me asking how you reacted at the time and then how you reacted to the girlfriend situation?

[Chancita]

reactions

Hello mama,
glad that my comments could be of some help.

I was of course upset that my parents were divorcing. However, I have always closely identified with my mom, so I wanted her to be happy. For me, it was very simple. I knew that I was still going to see my dad, so I wasn't worried about that.
The downside? I couldn't stand my mom's girlfriend. I could say in hindsight that it was something more deeply psychological, but seriously, I just didn't like her. I don't recall ever thinking, feeling or saying that it had anything to do with my mom being gay. Just as a person, I didn't care for her. I didn't like my dad's new wife either, so maybe it was just outright possessiveness.

I know it's not the same thing, but my partner and I have always been honest with our daughter about our identities (butch/femme), our orientation (queer) and our chosen family (in addition to our blood relations). My daughter is about to turn five and she takes everything in stride when she's given an adequate explanation. She went to my inseminations with me when we were conceiving her brother and had all that explained to her too. Children are so resilient and thrive on honesty and open communication.

I don't remember if anyone else mentioned this, but do you have PFLAG (parents and friends of lesbians and gays) where you are? This might be a place to connect with other families who have weathered a coming out before.

Good luck and be gentle with yourself.
Chance

PS: I grew up in Cobb County, GA, which if you are familiar at all with the Olympic stink here over their bigotry will mean something. Anyway, we ended up in court with my dad over custody... and as another nod to honesty, in a very, very conservative county with a court appointed guardian ad litum, my mom was granted full custody. This was virtually unheard of at the time as lesbians were considered completely unfit parents.

[kama'aina mama]

I think the starting point is, does your daughter need "gay" explained or is this already a part of her vocabulary? My daughter is 7 and understands, at her level, what gay is... but if she didn't and I wanted to come out to her it would be a very different conversation. Also, do you have a new love, partner, whatever? Or is that theoretical at this point? It makes a difference if you are talking to her about a person who may appear in the future as opposed to a person who's coming over for dinner on Tuesday... right?

Above all, keep things simple, be honest... always be honest! And be kind. Go slow. Tell her one thing and hang... see if she needs to digest, react, question.

I wish you the best with this.

[Hulahoop]

I don't have kids, and I'm not sure there's a right answer to this, cause it probably depends on the kid and the parents and all that, but I observed a similar situation from afar a few years ago.

my niece, who was around 7 at the time, had a friend whose parents were separating because the mom realized she was a lesbian. in this situation, the combination of the separation and the coming out DID merge--as you worry about. at one point, my niece told her mom how gay people are mean and bad because that's what her friend said about her mom. (I'm a lesbian, btw). Obviously, my sister sat her daughter down and finally (i'd been waiting for this for many years!) told her about me and my partner and other gay people she knew. I don't even think my niece and her friend knew really what being "gay" meant, but in their minds, it was a bad thing. this was a big shock to my niece--and that's a different story not important here--but the main thing is, in that instance, the coming out and the pain/blame/misunderstandings of separation WERE mixed together.

all htat being said, i also completely understand where your former partner is coming from--it's always better to hear things from your parents rather than other people talking about them.

i guess i don't have an answer, but just want to put out there an experience i had with this. maybe you don't have to label it right now as being "gay." that can come later. but you can say honestly something about how you and her father feel more like friends than married people and you both want to be able to see other people? and really, until you start dating women, it may not be an issue....

UPDATE:

ok, i'm not totally happy with what i wrote above, but i'll leave it as/is and just reiterate that I totally think you should be honest about who you are to your child!! but i just don't know if being gay has to be labeled absolutely right now or defined as the "blame" for a separation. what you are doing is a brave, wonderful, albeit painful, thing, and it owuld be a bummer to have it be totally linked to the sadness and confusion of a separation in your daughter's eyes.

[Astoria]

Based on personal experience, I don't think its a good idea to introduce a friend as a "friend" when they are a romantic possibility. Watching your mother date can stir up a lot of confusion and fear and it really helps to know that your mom can be counted on to be honest and not hide the situation. She will really need to know something about why the partnership of her parents is ending and if sexuality is truly a part of it, then it should be included, in some basic form, in the explanation. Children don't need complicated, adult explanations, but they really need the truth in a basic form and they need to trust you.

[smallqueery]

Thanks for all your replies. I still haven't approached her with it yet - still mulling over the wording for that. I really don't think I will be able to convince him to sit down and do this together though.

She does know what gay means so I don't have to explain that to her first, it's come up quite a lot - she once told me if she was boy she would marry Hannah Montana so we talked about how girls can marry each other too. Her best friends mum is very homophobic and was going on about a relative who had allowed her daughter of the same age to attend a civil service of her aunts, she was saying how awful it was and that children shouldn't be exposed to these relationships etc, so that started a further conversation when we got home, and at the end I asked "how would you feel if your mum was lesbian?" She told me she'd be embarrassed and if I got a girlfriend she would just tell everyone she was a friend. And there have been other times when the subject has come up, including her suddenly out of no where saying to me while we were in the car "Mum I don't want to be gay when I grow up."

[Hulahoop]

Congratulations on having such an open dialogue with your daughter already! I just want to say that it sounds like you're doing everything right. unfortunately, in our society, you can do everything right, but still have to deal with the world we all live in. sadly, it's understandable that your daughter would say she'd be embarassed if you had a girlfriend and that she wouldn't want to be gay. even though i am sooooo happy i am gay, parts of it were a tough road and there were times when i was younger that i didn't want to be gay and definitley would've been embarassed if a family member was. but i got over it! and i think it's even easier nowadays to get past that.

i guess what i'm trying to say is, her reactions sound completely normal to me, and she'll work through them just like lots of kids do--and just like we all did. I commend you on your thoughtfulness with your daughter! it sounds like you have a great foundation to build on. She may have some hard times--how could she not, growing up in our homophobic society--but it sounds like she'll be OK. Nowadays, my mom and sister jokingly thank me for being gay cause it made my nieces learn so many good lessons and to become better people. that took awhile, but it did happen.