Gas at homebirths in the US.... - Page 2

[3cuties]

Originally Posted by jennybean0722

Isn't Ni/Ox used by some scuba divers? I think the reason they use it is to help them stay submerged longer, and it also allows them to 'de-gas' more quickly when they are on there way up. I also think it decreases the likelihood if getting "drunk" at certain depths. But, I think Ni/Ox is only good for use down to around 130 feet I think. You might want to look at its use in diving situations and study the physiology of it there.

Good luck,
Jenny

Very interesting -- thank you.

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by jennybean0722

Isn't Ni/Ox used by some scuba divers? I think the reason they use it is to help them stay submerged longer, and it also allows them to 'de-gas' more quickly when they are on there way up. I also think it decreases the likelihood if getting "drunk" at certain depths. But, I think Ni/Ox is only good for use down to around 130 feet I think. You might want to look at its use in diving situations and study the physiology of it there.

Good luck,
Jenny

Nitrox for diving isn't the same thing as Nitrous Oxide, which you would use for pain relief. Nitrox is a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen that basically enriches the mix that you're breathing at depth so you can dive longer and deeper. It doesn't have any pain relieving properties, unfortunately. Plus, HB with a SCUBA regulator on would be no fun at all.

I thought that N2O was a scheduled substance, but it looks like it's regulated by the FDA. Other than that, it looks like most of the regulations you'd have to be aware of would be based on your state -- states regulate how N2O can be sold, and whether you'd need a special license to sell it in quantity.

Honestly, of all the pain relief options available for labor, N2O is about the only one I'd be interested in -- having talked to friends who homebirthed in Australia and the UK where it's widely used, the idea of having something to help over those killer transition/pre-pushing contractions where I want to do anything just to get the pain to stop is really appealing. Maybe that makes me a sucky 'natural birth advocate', but I can live with that.

[3cuties]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

Honestly, of all the pain relief options available for labor, N2O is about the only one I'd be interested in -- having talked to friends who homebirthed in Australia and the UK where it's widely used, the idea of having something to help over those killer transition/pre-pushing contractions where I want to do anything just to get the pain to stop is really appealing.

Exactly -- that is exactly where I envision using it. :

Originally Posted by Belleweather

Maybe that makes me a sucky 'natural birth advocate', but I can live with that.

Me too!

[thixle]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

the idea of having something to help over those killer transition/pre-pushing contractions where I want to do anything just to get the pain to stop is really appealing.

Soooo... does anyone know if NOS tanks (turbo car boost) are the scuba-diving type or the pain-relief type?

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by thixle

Soooo... does anyone know if NOS tanks (turbo car boost) are the scuba-diving type or the pain-relief type?

Pain relief type, as far as I can tell... but hey, I flunked chemistry and am relying on Wikipedia.

[HypnoMama]

Originally Posted by thixle

Soooo... does anyone know if NOS tanks (turbo car boost) are the scuba-diving type or the pain-relief type?

Hubby says they put hydrogen sulfide in the turbo car boost tanks similar to what they put in like, propane tanks, so you can tell if there is a leak and not blow yourself up. It is one of the most potent neurotoxins there is.

Hypothetically, your best bet is going to be whip-its and a cracker or a charging bottle. But you really need to make sure to be getting oxygen too. I guess you could mix your own balloons 50% oxygen, 50% nitrous and create a festive atmosphere in your birth environment

http://www.justsayn2o.com/nitrous.obtain.html

Anyway, here is a link, so nobody goes huffing on any crazy things like turbo tanks.

[MamaVolpe]

I believe this is what my Gma used during two of her labors. It was self administered so it could not be over used as her and would fall away from her face if she was having too much. This was not in the USA though.

I rember having NO when my wisdom teeth were removed. I remember everything about the surgery, no fogged memories or anything and I was aleart enought to try to talk to the dentist thru all the stuff in my mouth. Mostly I remember the effects being extreme giddyness, I thought everything was wonderful and tryed to sing along with the music playing in the room. Hard to to with a mouth full of cotton and untensils. I probably had a higher mixture than what would be used in labor as I was having the teeth surgericaly removed. A local was also used.

It sounds like a better option to me than an epidural. I would rather inhale gas than have stuff injected into my spine. Pluss the gas wears of really quickly once you stop breathing it.

[Nan'sMom]

Here's the wikipedia link on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide

One reason I wouldn't want to use it is that people can sometimes have "bad trips" on it. A friend described a childhood dental experience using nitrous oxide as a nightmarish experience she still remembers vividly years later. So most of her experiences were ok but this one experience was absolutely terrifying. I've heard this sort of bad experience referred to other places as well.

Plus, IMO, if you're using anesthetics, you should have a trained anesthesiologist administering them and monitoring vital signs.

So...I may be misunderstanding the gist of the thread...but if it's nitrous oxide that dentists use, I'd say not such a hot idea to use at home.

[3cuties]

Originally Posted by Nan'sMom

Plus, IMO, if you're using anesthetics, you should have a trained anesthesiologist administering them and monitoring vital signs.

They don't have these in dentist's offices or the UK when administering it. I think having someone trained to administer it would be sufficient.

[wednesday]

I sooo wish that NO was an option for US births. Our choices here suck.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by 3cuties

They don't have these in dentist's offices or the UK when administering it. I think having someone trained to administer it would be sufficient.

No, they don't have it in the US either but I think it's not safe and wouldn't use it at a dentist.

[3cuties]

Originally Posted by Nan'sMom

No, they don't have it in the US either but I think it's not safe and wouldn't use it at a dentist.

Regardless, when I started this thread it was about the feasibility not seeking opinions. I really don't want to debate it on this thread, I don't want the topic to get side tracked. I am re-quoting some of my posts below.

Originally Posted by 3cuties

I know it hasn't been approved in the US and likely will not. But is there a way to be able to use gas at a homebirth? I am not sure if this is a silly post, sorry if it is.

ETA: This is NOT a debate thread. If you want to debate the use of gas at homebirth or express your opinion against, please start another thread. Thank you.

Originally Posted by 3cuties

I don't want this thread to 1) turn into a debate and 2) be a place to pass judgment. If you notice my OP didn't ask for opinions on its usage or what people thought.

There are many valid reasons foer choosing homebirth and the reality is that gas is used at homebirths in many countries. And if homebirth is going to become more widely available to others then addressing pain control is a valid issue. Finally from my understanding, the effect lasts as long as the inhalation. Therefore it is nothing like the anasthea used in the past. There is much more control.

Please no debate or judgment.

Originally Posted by 3cuties

I am going to repost my post from above.



If you are interested, there are many studies that show that nitrus gas is not harmful. Anyway, this is not a debate thread -- so PLEASE refrain from judgment or opinion on it. Thank you.

Also...

Originally Posted by elizaMM;10147526[B

Liss, Southern Mommie, and Demeter[/B]: If you'd like to discuss and the pros and cons of using Nitrous Oxide during labor I'd love to take part. Just start a new thread and we'll go to town.

Thank you.

[elizaMM]

Originally Posted by HypnoMama

Hypothetically, your best bet is going to be whip-its and a cracker or a charging bottle. But you really need to make sure to be getting oxygen too. I guess you could mix your own balloons 50% oxygen, 50% nitrous and create a festive atmosphere in your birth environment

Hypnomama (how appropo ;-) ): At first I was thinking "duh! why didn't I think of that?" But then I realized it would be pretty difficult to know how much nitrous and how much O2 was getting in the balloon. You couldn't just figure 5 seconds of each, it would depend on the pressure each gas is under, (a) in its tank, and (b) in the balloon you are filling with it, both of which would change constantly. In one of the published studies I cited earlier it said 70% Nitrous is too much. Any ideas?


3cuties: I don't know what MDC's policy is, I would think they'd be okay with you posting it if its okay with the author. Surely you could quote portions if you give proper credit.

Curious to hear what else you've found. My midwife said she'd be comfortable using it with out a pulse oxymeter for me, she'd just bring her adult ambu bag (to resuscitate me). Almost sounds like she's trying to scare me. Or maybe I'm being paranoid. I have Tuesday off work so I'll make some phone calls then.

[elizaMM]

N2O illegal?

Originally Posted by wednesday

I sooo wish that NO was an option for US births. Our choices here suck.

Wednesday: Thanks for the empathy, but, with ALL due respect, what makes you so sure it ISN'T?? I've seen a few people say this but haven't heard the specifics of why. If you can share the details it would save us a lot of time in our research. TIA

[Midwife Kris]

Judith Rooks, who authored a few of those articles quoted, is on a mission to bring nitrous into birth centers and even home births as a mainstay option. The reasons why have already been stated. Some places DO use it. It's a matter of portability and availability, pracititioner training, and client demand.

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by elizaMM

Wednesday: Thanks for the empathy, but, with ALL due respect, what makes you so sure it ISN'T?? I've seen a few people say this but haven't heard the specifics of why. If you can share the details it would save us a lot of time in our research. TIA

When I've asked around about usage of NO, on websites and in person, the response has been overwhelmingly critical in the tone of, more or less, "You should want a natural birth, and if you don't, maybe you should just go to the hospital and get the epidural." I don't doubt that there are some folks here and there using it, but it's hard to come by any information about it.

Also in my state most homebirth midwives are direct-entry and there is no certification process, meaning they are considered to be practicing medicine without a license. They do all carry pitocin anyway, from what I've gathered, but NO (from what I understand) would be yet one more pharmaceutical product they are not authorized to possess or administer. Why would they want to risk that for a non-life-threatening issue? I also get the sense there is a lot of pride in their skills/technique in helping women labor naturally, and requesting NO would be an affront to that.

[3cuties]

I think that is just a pure reaction to the anti-natural birth and homebirth movement. So that any movement that appears to be away from it must be shunned. But really it is just about more options - -that are available to women in other countries.

I think it comes down to state regs. I am meeting/interviewing midwives next week -- I plan on bringing it up!

[flapjack]

Well, frankly, I'd rather have gas and air at a homebirth than people brewing up combinations of cohoshes and compressing my perineum. IMO/E, it's actually safer than some of the non-pharmaceutical things that I've seen posters say their midwives have recommended during my 3 years on the board.
To clarify; gas and air comes in a canister with a mouthpiece, which is disposable and replaced for each person using the canister. The mother holds the mouthpiece and inhales the gas and air as and when she needs the help. It does have a significant placebo effect which can help with transition, it is mood-altering and yes, if you overdo it then it can feel like a seriously "bad trip". I know this, because I used it with my first two labours and with DS1, I OD'ed on it. In retrospect, that was probably transition, though BUT if you're looking at a choice between transferring for pain meds or gritting your teeth and bearing it, then gas and air could have kept you going over that unbearable contraction and kept you at home :

FWIW, I also had pethidine for DD1's birth, as crossing the placenta wasn't an issue at that point in time, and there is no comparison between the two in terms of effects on memory. The pethidine numbed me, mind, body and soul, and took away some of the horror of what was happening. The gas and air made me feel sick, woozy and a bit disorientated. It's not comparable.

Something else to look into is the use of TENS machines, OP. They're far more common over here, and can really, really help.

[3cuties]

Helen -- are you in the UK? Is that where you used the gas?

[orangefoot]

I am a failed homebirther: This thread came up on new threads a few hours ago...

My first experience with Entonoxwas in my fourth labour after transferring to hospital from home. An epidural was my only other option.

I think it helps to be 'coached' for a few breaths to get used to breathing it. I had had a few whiffs once before while being stitched post partum and it made me feel really awful so I think there is definitely a 'good' way to use it and a bad way.This means that you need to be with someone who has experience of using the gas not someone who just says "Breathe it in and you'll be fine". The system has a valve so you can breathe in and out through it without having to take it out of your mouth and you can slort of breathe normal air around the mouthpiece if you don't close your lips around it.

I stopped breathing it and dropped the mouthpiecein once I felt the urge to push and its effect on my head passed very quickly.

Lots of women here in the UK use it in labour at home and in hospital; at home it comes in a canister and is carried by the midwife who has a compressed gas warning sticker on her car, in hospital it comes straight out of the wall. N additional monitoring is carried out as far as I'm aware as the gas leaves your system relatively quickly.

Using it at a homebirth isn't seen as 'selling-out' or weakness in any way. I've never heard anyone say they had a homebirth butthey used gas and air.