Tithing - Page 2

[Savoir Faire]

After reading the post on donating to those in more need, I looked up what was available in my county.

I plan on sending $ to a different charity each month. First one? One that offers crisis counseling to children who are victims of physical and sexual abuse. Than you so much for your idea!

[Purple*Lotus]

Originally Posted by Savoir Faire

After reading the post on donating to those in more need, I looked up what was available in my county.

I plan on sending $ to a different charity each month. First one? One that offers crisis counseling to children who are victims of physical and sexual abuse. Than you so much for your idea!

That is a wonderful idea

[KariM]

Originally Posted by ediesmom

i am so touched by your post. I am so impressed at how you and your family have thought it out an made the commitment.

Imagine, for a moment, if all people did this.(in some form)

I read no pity for those less fortunate in your post. (now I am crying) Poverty is a social disease, not a personal shortcoming. From your post I feel you understand that.

Oh, there is NO pity! I was one of them - they are us. Just nine years ago I was a single mother going to college using housing subsidies to house my son and food stamps to feed him.

I vowed then that as soon as I could help I would.

The "least of us" wording comes from Matthew 25:41-45:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'
Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you,
as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' "

My family is not wealthy. I honestly don't think we're even middle class. My DH is really our sole support right now and earns less than $50,000/year (even though he is working in his field and has a PhD). We're soon to be a family of five.

We live a very frugal and modest lifestyle (which is why, btw, I love this forum so much!).

But there is so much that we can do to help others! Sometimes it's monetary, sometimes it's gifts in kind, sometimes it's our efforts/talents/help.

Those of you who grow gardens can share the produce with others. I sew and share those gifts. We freecycle and donate our gently used items throughout our community.

Even if you don't have the cash, you can tithe.

[beansmama]

Originally Posted by crayolaab

I hope I am not offending anyone by asking this question but it is starting to really bother me.

I see mention on here of people who are going in to debt, really struggling to make ends meet, taking advantage of programs to help feed, clothe, house, care for the family - and yet they still tithe 10% to their church.

I guess I don't understand and I hope that someone can help me. What churches have this requirement that you pay 10% off the top to them? Do they really make no provision for families that truly cannot afford it? Is there no support system available within the church for families to tithe in ways other than strictly financial donations to help families that are struggling so much?

Part of me gets a little bit upset when I see this, because I do know of some people who faithfully tithe 10% while receiving food stamps, gov't healthcare, and other gov't subsidies - which basically means that the government is paying to support a religious group in part, since the family would probably not be receiving as much in aid if they did not give their money first to the church. Am I truly interpreting this correctly?

You are misinformed. Very FEW churches actually REQUIRE tithing... As far as i know, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are required to tithe? I think??? I'm not sure what the churches do about low income families - Mormon churches, from what i know from my mormon SIL, do not pay their pastors - so that means they have a LOT of money somewhere since everyone is paying 10% and it's a huge church.

I'm sure they help their needy members.

I'm part of a non-denominational church. I'm sure a lot of members tithe, but we don't even pass the basket around - or really talk about it "too" much. We just have a giving box and envelopes so people can give.

Our church helps out a lot of non-members, and non-christians as well...as i'm sure lots of churches do...just wanted to add that.

I haven't tithed for a while - we could probably swing it financially, even though we are just living off unemployment - but we are saving every penny towards when UI runs out. But i feel okay about it. I do give money to people sometimes when i have it, and i donate and give away a lot of items to people or charities as well.

And - when i do tithe, it's not usually to my church. I'd honestly rather my money go directly to needy people rather than the "expansion" fund or whatnot. My church does let you choose where you want your money to go (I mark the "giving" fund - which *does* go to poor families) but typically i find my own charities.

ANyway, that's a little long winded, but hope that helps!

[Contrariety]

Originally Posted by beansmama

Very FEW churches actually REQUIRE tithing... As far as i know, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are required to tithe? I think???

LDS (Mormon) members are required to pay a 10% tithe in order to go to their temples, and they cannot be resurrected (saved) unless they go to their temples. So, yes it a definite requirement. They have to pay in order to be of good faith. LDS clergymen are not paid, and the church is very, very wealthy. They were in jeopardy of losing their non-profit status a few years ago, actually. That being said, they definitely take care of their members in need, and even non-members sometimes.

I know that my LDS family and friends consider tithing as a blessing, and they always make room for it in their budget. They swear they feel worse off when they don't pay their tithing, though sometimes it seems they can't afford it.

I agree with a PP that it is very similar to the commitment some have to buying organic. They feel the benefits outweigh the costs, by far. And who is to argue, really? Spiritual benefits cannot be measured in dollars.

[normajean]

Originally Posted by beansmama

You are misinformed. Very FEW churches actually REQUIRE tithing... As far as i know, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are required to tithe? I think??? I'm not sure what the churches do about low income families - Mormon churches, from what i know from my mormon SIL, do not pay their pastors - so that means they have a LOT of money somewhere since everyone is paying 10% and it's a huge church.

I'm sure they help their needy members.

I'm LDS/Mormon. Tithing is not "required," it is an offering that is freely given. Yes, 10% is considered a full tithe, however how much a person gives is entirely up to them. I do know that not everyone chooses to tithe, and not everyone pays a "full tithe." As with all commandments we are free to make the choice for ourselves. Our clergy is not paid, with the exception of very few people who dedicate the remainder of their lives to church service, such as the President of the church & the Apostles. Their living is "room & board" basically a small apartment & living expenses.

Yes, we have 12 million members (still relatively small compared to other major world religions) however, since the LDS church is a global church and most of the members are outside the United States, many in 3rd world South American countries please keep that in perspective when visualizing money available.

The LDS church financial records are audited yearly by an independent auditing firm, and the report is published annually. In addition to the construction, furnishing, and operating expenses of church buildings, temples, tabernacles, & conference centers nationwide, tithing funds are also used for things like:

Maintaining the largest family history research program in the world
Supporting 3 large Universities
seminary & institute buildings (religious education for HS students, the teachers are primarily unpaid volunteers teaching classes at 5 or 6 am which students voluntarily attend.)
Room & board allowances for senior adults supervising the proselyting & humanitarian missionary programs
Construction & maintenance of church visitors centers and museums at important church history sites

Additionally voluntary fast offerings are used for humanitarian & local member welfare needs. The church also has a perpetual education fund to help people who would otherwise be unable to afford it better their lives through higher education.

[normajean]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Jesus

LDS (Mormon) members are required to pay a 10% tithe in order to go to their temples, and they cannot be resurrected (saved) unless they go to their temples. So, yes it a definite requirement. They have to pay in order to be of good faith. LDS clergymen are not paid, and the church is very, very wealthy. They were in jeopardy of losing their non-profit status a few years ago, actually. That being said, they definitely take care of their members in need, and even non-members sometimes.

LDS doctrine states that everyone will be resurrected.

Being able to attend the temple is based on a personal declaration of worthiness, not on a check of financial records. A lot of LDS members in full fellowship never attend the temple.

[Knittin' in the Shade]

We tithe 10% of our income currently, but int he past it's been less than that at times and more than that at others. Our church (presbyterian) do not require a certain percentage or even any giving at all - it's all up to the individual to decide. That said, we wholeheartedly give to our church whenever we can because the church community uses that money to do so many wonderful things for our greater community - we operate a food pantry, build homes for victims of domestic abuse and participate and fund habitat homes, there are dozens of missionaries around the world that we send money to (we just sent a huge grant to an organization in India who work with temple prostitutes and their children, enabling them to find new work and they subsidize housing and food for the families.) All around us we see evidence of the good works that our church community is doing with "our" money, and we like to give money whenever we can in order to support those efforts. We also are firm believers in tithing our time, also, and we strive to give 10% of our time towards charitable efforts like working on habitat houses, going into impoverished communities to work side by side with residents cleaning up their streets, doign home repairs, planting gardens. We just started a new program called "rocka nd read" that I am so excited about - we go into the head start and pre-k classrooms and snuggle witht he kids, reading books and just trying to let them know that there are adults who care about them. I had a little boy tell me that I was the first person who ever snuggled and read him a book!

[Contrariety]

Originally Posted by normajean

LDS doctrine states that everyone will be resurrected.

Being able to attend the temple is based on a personal declaration of worthiness, not on a check of financial records. A lot of LDS members in full fellowship never attend the temple.

You're right. I forgot about heaven's hierarchy in the LDS faith. Not resurrected, but in order to go to the highest kingdom in heaven, you have have gone through the temple. Unless my brain is fried and I've jumbled the doctrine in my head in the 10 years since I last attended a church meeting (which is a very distinct possibility ).

When I was a teenager, I was denied a temple recommend to attend the temple based on the fact that I did not pay tithing. That was the only reason.

From what I was taught for the first 16 years of my life, you have to pay 10% (either money or 10% of your crop, yield, etc.) in order to go to the temple, and you have to go to the temple in order to be fully, celestially exalted in god's eyes.

*Sorry if this comes across as being snarky. I don't mean to be offensive, it's just my understanding of how tithing is correlated to church membership, IME.

[beansricerevolt]

Im curious as to why a family would stay with a church community if they don't feel comfortable tithing there.
Im not trying to cause a ripple im just truly curious.
If I felt uncomfortable tithing to my church because of whatever reason, I wouldn't be able to stay with that community.

[LilMomma83]

I've never heard of a church requiring a tithe, but we do tithe 10% because we feel it is just being obedient to God - that it is actually al his in the first place...also, ever sense we started tithing consistantly (1yr ago exactly) no mater how bad things have been we have always had enough, it is our belief that God will not allow harm to come from our obedience to him.

[polyhymnia]

Originally Posted by lalaland42

Catholic churches and I believe Mormon churches tithe. I am not sure exactly how it works because my mom was Catholic and she told me a little about it but not that much.

I don't think the level of government aid depends on tithing at all. Aid is based on total income and tithing comes out of your budget like food would. ETA: The Catholic and Mormon churches I know are great resources to those in need, not the other way around.

Good point, thank you! That makes sense. I knew I couldn't be thinking of it logically!

And yes I do see many resources put out by the churches as well but I just thought it makes more sense to reduce tithing for those who need it rather than taking money and then giving aid... anyway, thanks for that!

[polyhymnia]

Thank you everyone for the help and information and advice. It's given me a lot to think about!! It makes a lot more sense now too, I was picturing things very differently.

I really do apologize if I caused any offense at all, I was just trying to understand the situation and Googling only gets me so far - I never know what is true and what isn't. I understand better now, so thanks everyone.

[normajean]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Jesus

When I was a teenager, I was denied a temple recommend to attend the temple based on the fact that I did not pay tithing. That was the only reason.

From what I was taught for the first 16 years of my life, you have to pay 10% (either money or 10% of your crop, yield, etc.) in order to go to the temple, and you have to go to the temple in order to be fully, celestially exalted in god's eyes.

*Sorry if this comes across as being snarky. I don't mean to be offensive, it's just my understanding of how tithing is correlated to church membership, IME.

Perhaps the question that needs to be asked here is whether a person who is unable to voluntarily be obedient to God's laws--whether a biblical principle like tithing--or chastity, or love thy neighbor, or being honest in your business and personal dealings, or supporting & caring for your dependents to the best of your ability (all of which are addressed in your declaration of worthiness to obtain a temple recommend)--is ready to receive the responsibilities associated with temple attendance. For example, a person owing but not paying child support would be denied a temple recommend. But it is jumping to a false conclusion to say that the LDS Church holding Salvation ransom for the purpose of coercing child support monies out of people.

The actual money is not what is significant, the significance is in obedience to God's law, as in the story of the widow's mites. In the case of Child Support what is significant is a parent's responsibility to their moral obligation to care for his or her child. In the case of tithing, it is a persons willingness to be obedient, sacrifice, & return to God a portion of what have been benevolently given. The payment of tithes is a voluntary contribution that represents willingness to submit & obey God's laws.

The power of the Atonement is available to all people, whether they have attended the temple or not. The ordinances you alluded to in your post are not available to 16 year olds-so it sounds like you may have some misunderstandings of other LDS doctrines. If you would like to obtain further information, I would refer you to either www.mormon.org or www.lds.org or I would be happy to discuss it with you in PM, but its clearly off topic for this post.


This is the LDS Church's official statement on the purpose of Tithing:

The Bible indicates that God’s people followed the law of tithing anciently; through modern prophets, God restored this law once again to bless His children. To fulfill this commandment, Church members give one-tenth of their income to the Lord through His Church. These funds are used to build up the Church and further the work of the Lord throughout the world.
One of the blessings of membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the privilege of paying tithing. This privilege is a double blessing. By paying tithing, Church members show their gratitude to God for their blessings and their resolve to trust in the Lord rather than in material things. They also help further the work of the Lord in the earth, blessing others of God’s children with the opportunity to learn of Him and to grow in the gospel.

Through the prophet Malachi, the Lord declared:

"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it" (Malachi 3:10).

Church members give their tithing donations to local leaders. These local leaders transmit tithing funds directly to the headquarters of the Church, where a council determines specific ways to use the sacred funds. This council is comprised of the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and the Presiding Bishopric. Acting according to revelation, they make decisions as they are directed by the Lord. (See D&C 120:1.)

Tithing funds are always used for the Lord's purposes—to build and maintain temples and meetinghouses, to sustain missionary work, to educate Church members, and to carry on the work of the Lord throughout the world.

[DBZ]

My church doesn't call it tithing, but they do a collection and suggest you give 10% of your income and if you can't/don't want to do that then donate your time. I've been working with my church (UU) about how to be more welcoming to the financially challenged aka poor. One thing that they are currently working on is training their ushers to read those subtle cues so they don't stick the basket in the face of someone who has nothing to give.

[1growingsprout]

We are catholic and many many years ago when i attended catholic school the motto was ' an hour of your pay for an hr of gods time' meaning you were to donate 1 hrs pay before taxes in the collection plate at mass..

We donate when/where we can

[BiscuitBaby]

I went to a Mega Church with my friends family when I was living on my own and could barely pay my bills. Every freaking Sunday there was a huge speech on tithing and how it helped the less fortunate and all these programs at the church. It made me very uncomfortable. I didn't have money to give, but I volunteered in the church thrift store every week. Listening to them go on and on about tithing made me stop attending and I have not really looked for another church since.

I understand that for some people, it makes them happy to give the money to their church, which they see as their family or community. But I don't think it needs to be rammed down everyones throat.

Giving what you can is how it should be. Not just giving to the church, but also helping others in your community. We are beyond broke right now, but the day before Christmas I made a bunch of goody bags for the homeless people where we live. I bought some hygiene items like toothpaste, toothbrushes, lip balm, deoderant, some food like fruit and granola bars and made sandwiches. I put a little bit if everything in paper bags and had my kids decorate them. I finished them off with a ribbon and a candy cane so they looked really cute. DH took everything to the intersection where they hang out and he said they were so grateful. He told me that I really made a lot of people happy that day.

Sometime I feel like we have so much and I want to help others, but not by giving money. I prefer acts of service where I actually give my time and a part of myself to the cause.

[phathui5]

the family would probably not be receiving as much in aid if they did not give their money first to the church

Not so. You wouldn't get more in aid because you're giving more. Government agencies count your income before any giving.

[ShaggyDaddy]

giving based on obligation (religious or otherwise) is called taking. Giving based on principles is actually giving.

for instance federal income tax is not a "donation". Fulfiling doctrine/law to "give" 10% is not giving at all. The mere requirement in doctrine turns it from an act of philanthropy to an act of obedience.

Philanthropy has purpose, logic, and fiscal justification. Obedience is blind to logic or fiscal justification, it is an act of emotion, and is not subject to reason.

Therefore if you are not paying 10% you will never understand it, because it is a feeling, not a logical choice. It is very hard to apply logic to any religious decision, it is just a lot easier to see this paradigm when you apply dollars and cents, this is why most successful churches opt out of a firm number, yearly audits, etc.

[angelcat]

Originally Posted by beansmama

You are misinformed. Very FEW churches actually REQUIRE tithing... As far as i know, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are required to tithe? I think??? I'm not sure what the churches do about low income families - Mormon churches, from what i know from my mormon SIL, do not pay their pastors - so that means they have a LOT of money somewhere since everyone is paying 10% and it's a huge church.

I'm sure they help their needy members.

I'm part of a non-denominational church. I'm sure a lot of members tithe, but we don't even pass the basket around - or really talk about it "too" much. We just have a giving box and envelopes so people can give.

Our church helps out a lot of non-members, and non-christians as well...as i'm sure lots of churches do...just wanted to add that.

I haven't tithed for a while - we could probably swing it financially, even though we are just living off unemployment - but we are saving every penny towards when UI runs out. But i feel okay about it. I do give money to people sometimes when i have it, and i donate and give away a lot of items to people or charities as well.

And - when i do tithe, it's not usually to my church. I'd honestly rather my money go directly to needy people rather than the "expansion" fund or whatnot. My church does let you choose where you want your money to go (I mark the "giving" fund - which *does* go to poor families) but typically i find my own charities.

ANyway, that's a little long winded, but hope that helps!

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. Tithing is one of our teachings, but I haven't tithed for years, and I'm still a member. So I wouldn't say it's required. I do beleive in tithing, and I feel very guilty for not. I kow from experience God will take care of me, and I won't even notice that 10% less. I'ts still hard to initially start doing that.