or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Tithing - Page 3

post #41 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygirl View Post
I don't tithe, because all our income right now comes from federal assistance {FS, SSI, etc} and I don't think it would be right to tithe from that.

Plus I'd rather feed and clothe my own family instead of letting mine go without to help feed and clothe another family.
: totally agree with this!!
post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post
Those who tithe are generally coming from a place of faith, in the book of Malachi (exact verse and wording not handy) it states bring the whole tithe to God and you will get a increase. I have tithed and I do beleive I have been blessed when I was faithful in tithing. I have even given a tithe when I did not have a church home so its not so much about a specific church demanding a tithe or else.. not to say there are not such churches, to me its personal and its about my faith in God and his ability to provide..

I understand you are trying to not be offensive but there is a little part of me that read your initial post and was offended.

Frankly the people who mention tithing as not optional here IMO are not any different than those who swear by 100% organic food no matter what. Its just a matter of personal belief.

That said as a Christian I would run like hell from any church that demanded I give money after all the bible also states God likes a cheerful giver.

Shay
I don't tithe, and still I've been blessed. So it's all in what you believe and where you believe things come from/how you interpret them. 'Course, I'm not a Christian either and have never identified as one.

DH however, is Catholic, yet he's never given a tithe either. For him it was something here and there when he could, but no big deal.

However, if it's important to you, go for it! But I still don't think it should come off the top of the budget *if* you're seriously struggling, wondering how your rent will be paid, etc. Give God money and only then will God give you some? Not in my book... :
post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBZ View Post
My church doesn't call it tithing, but they do a collection and suggest you give 10% of your income and if you can't/don't want to do that then donate your time. I've been working with my church (UU) about how to be more welcoming to the financially challenged aka poor. One thing that they are currently working on is training their ushers to read those subtle cues so they don't stick the basket in the face of someone who has nothing to give.
And what, do tell, are these cues? I don't think there are necessarily "poverty cues"...
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
giving based on obligation (religious or otherwise) is called taking. Giving based on principles is actually giving.

for instance federal income tax is not a "donation". Fulfiling doctrine/law to "give" 10% is not giving at all. The mere requirement in doctrine turns it from an act of philanthropy to an act of obedience.

Philanthropy has purpose, logic, and fiscal justification. Obedience is blind to logic or fiscal justification, it is an act of emotion, and is not subject to reason.

Therefore if you are not paying 10% you will never understand it, because it is a feeling, not a logical choice. It is very hard to apply logic to any religious decision, it is just a lot easier to see this paradigm when you apply dollars and cents, this is why most successful churches opt out of a firm number, yearly audits, etc.
:
twothumbs Well said!
post #45 of 80
Moving this to Religious Studies. Carry on!
post #46 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayolaab View Post
Part of me gets a little bit upset when I see this, because I do know of some people who faithfully tithe 10% while receiving food stamps, gov't healthcare, and other gov't subsidies - which basically means that the government is paying to support a religious group in part, since the family would probably not be receiving as much in aid if they did not give their money first to the church. Am I truly interpreting this correctly?

No church requires it (that I know of). The Bible speaks about the tithe and why we should give. Giving is a blessing and I do so freely. honestly that 10% just doesn't make that much of a difference to my budget.

my giving in no would effect the amount of assistance I receive. assistance is based on income. My friend is on food stamps and wic and Medicaid and probably housing. yet her kids wear designer clothes. her is house is well decorated and she drives a new car. how can she afford all this? well the government is picking up health insurance, food, and housing. honestly, I would rather they gave 10% of their income to the church - especially if they are getting all that help. but how you choose to spend your income has nothing to do with how much assistance you get.
post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
No church requires it (that I know of).
I know of one large church that does an annual "tithing settlement" which is an audit, adults and children alike have a private meeting with leadership in which they pray, go over financial records, and pledge their worthieness to be a full member of the church.

Members, of course do not see it as a guilt audit as someone on the outside might, but as a helpful guidance session to assist them in following the laws.

No matter how you phrase it, there are churches that put a very large effort into making sure they get their 10%.
post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
I know of one large church that does an annual "tithing settlement" which is an audit, adults and children alike have a private meeting with leadership in which they pray, go over financial records, and pledge their worthieness to be a full member of the church.

Members, of course do not see it as a guilt audit as someone on the outside might, but as a helpful guidance session to assist them in following the laws.

No matter how you phrase it, there are churches that put a very large effort into making sure they get their 10%.
Okay, since it's obvious you are talking about the LDS church, let me clear up exactly what happens at tithing settlement. We meet with a member of the bishopric. There is no prayer. They have a print out of what you have paid. You are asked if you are a full tithe payer and you answer yes or no. You leave. End of story. They don't check your finances or ask you to 'prove' anything. They take your word for it.
post #49 of 80
We give what we can because we know that there are others less fortunate than we are. Also, we know it's a blessing to give because what we may receive later will be much better.

God provides for us, so why not do the same here on Earth?

My question is why are you so bothered by what others do with their money? Is it coming from a place of guilt, perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandygirl View Post
I don't tithe, because all our income right now comes from federal assistance {FS, SSI, etc} and I don't think it would be right to tithe from that.

Plus I'd rather feed and clothe my own family instead of letting mine go without to help feed and clothe another family.
Is federal assistance really considered income as it's given to you, not something that you are actually working to bring in? So, I would say that you are exempted.
post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansricerevolt View Post
Im curious as to why a family would stay with a church community if they don't feel comfortable tithing there.
Im not trying to cause a ripple im just truly curious.
If I felt uncomfortable tithing to my church because of whatever reason, I wouldn't be able to stay with that community.
I was thinking the same thing.

and just a couple of other points. volunteering is great and we should all be volunteering but that doesn't pay the heat, stock the bathroom with toilet paper, put food on the table of the pastors family or repair a leaking roof. I don't think our pastors should be living in the lap of luxury but I also think a good, full time pastor should be well above the poverty line.

if you are tired of guilt trips and talks about tithing then give what needs to be given. I have never met a pastor who likes to talk about money (although I am sure there are some) but at the same time people act like all this is all free. If people would just give responsibly (and paying the bills is your responsibility) the pastor wouldn't have to beg.
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
No church requires it (that I know of). The Bible speaks about the tithe and why we should give. Giving is a blessing and I do so freely. honestly that 10% just doesn't make that much of a difference to my budget.

my giving in no would effect the amount of assistance I receive. assistance is based on income. My friend is on food stamps and wic and Medicaid and probably housing. yet her kids wear designer clothes. her is house is well decorated and she drives a new car. how can she afford all this? well the government is picking up health insurance, food, and housing. honestly, I would rather they gave 10% of their income to the church - especially if they are getting all that help. but how you choose to spend your income has nothing to do with how much assistance you get.

You are lucky that 10% wouldn't effect you, 10% for me would be impossible. As for your friend, you can get designer clothes for cheap in thrift shops or on ebay. She may drive a new car but do you think she owns it? I bet you the bank does and she has a 7 yr loan to keep the payments down and depending on her situation those pay payments may be cheaper then public transportation and I'd rather have a reliable new car with payments then an old unreliable clunker that may fail on you at any moment and cause you to miss what could be a life saving Dr appt or even just going to work. A good working car is a NEED to getting out of poverty unless you live in a city with an awesome public transportation program which most do not. I doubt you know her total situation and I'm betting that car is her ticket out of poverty.
post #52 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelcat View Post
I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. Tithing is one of our teachings, but I haven't tithed for years, and I'm still a member. So I wouldn't say it's required. I do beleive in tithing, and I feel very guilty for not. I kow from experience God will take care of me, and I won't even notice that 10% less. I'ts still hard to initially start doing that.
Oh - this is just what i've heard from back in the day when i used to have only antena and watch that 3abn channel all the time (they had a great veggie cooking show, lol!). And my hubby has a seventh day friend - so i wasn't meaning to offend anyone! Just going off what i've heard
post #53 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebarnes View Post
Okay, since it's obvious you are talking about the LDS church, let me clear up exactly what happens at tithing settlement. We meet with a member of the bishopric. There is no prayer. They have a print out of what you have paid. You are asked if you are a full tithe payer and you answer yes or no. You leave. End of story. They don't check your finances or ask you to 'prove' anything. They take your word for it.
Wow...is that something that EVERYONE *has* to do? Go in front of a bishop and they show you a printout of your giving (or lack thereof) then ask you if you donate a full 10% (as if it would be obvious...you know, if you only gave a couple hundred bucks that year).

That seems very uncomfortable to me...i'm not trying to diss your church - but if my church did that to me - i would leave. That seems like pressure AND humiliation
post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post

and just a couple of other points. volunteering is great and we should all be volunteering but that doesn't pay the heat, stock the bathroom with toilet paper, put food on the table of the pastors family or repair a leaking roof. I don't think our pastors should be living in the lap of luxury but I also think a good, full time pastor should be well above the poverty line.

if you are tired of guilt trips and talks about tithing then give what needs to be given. I have never met a pastor who likes to talk about money (although I am sure there are some) but at the same time people act like all this is all free. If people would just give responsibly (and paying the bills is your responsibility) the pastor wouldn't have to beg.
: Let me state that my dad is a former pastor so I may be coming in this with a bias, but when my dad was a ft pastor he still had to have another ft job because the tithes & offerings were no where near enough for him to support my Mom, brother and himself. Granted it was a small congregation but the fact is there were a lot of times when my Dad took from the family money to help members out and make sure the church bills got paid. My Dad didn't even net 10K a year for what is a very ft job so while I think volunteering is great, the reality is churches need money to run its not always about the mega size building and the pastor driving around in a Rolls Royce, hell my Dad had a jalopy that was so unreliable he sometimes had to take the subway and bus to go preach on Sunday mornings.

Clearly everyone knows there own situation, heck even I have not been as faithful in tithing as I want to be but especially when I have a church home I do try to tithe and tithe at 10% but when that is not possible, I give what I can.

Shay
post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansmama View Post
Wow...is that something that EVERYONE *has* to do? Go in front of a bishop and they show you a printout of your giving (or lack thereof) then ask you if you donate a full 10% (as if it would be obvious...you know, if you only gave a couple hundred bucks that year).

That seems very uncomfortable to me...i'm not trying to diss your church - but if my church did that to me - i would leave. That seems like pressure AND humiliation
You don't have to make an appointment for tithing settlement. The printout is for YOU, in case you feel like there is a discrepancy between your records and theirs.

And, no, it's not obvious. We have many people, especially in our area who may be only giving a couple of hundred a year and that is a full 10%. Sometimes students have part time jobs and parents are paying for the majority of their expenses. Any, each person decides for themselves what is a 'true' 10%. For example - someone may pay 10% of their net, some 10% of their pretax income. Some people choose to pay on monetary gifts, others don't. That's why it is personally up to YOU to declare whether you are a full tithe payer, the doctrine gives the guidelines, but you are the only one who has the authority to make that call, and you are accountable for that call to God, not the bishop.
post #56 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebarnes View Post
Okay, since it's obvious you are talking about the LDS church, let me clear up exactly what happens at tithing settlement. We meet with a member of the bishopric. There is no prayer. They have a print out of what you have paid. You are asked if you are a full tithe payer and you answer yes or no. You leave. End of story. They don't check your finances or ask you to 'prove' anything. They take your word for it.
If I may gently intercede... it's possible, given that she didn't name the LDS church and what she describes does not resonate with your experience as an LDS member, that she's talking about another church. I don't know one way or another, but let's please (this is about everyone in the thread) give each other the benefit of the doubt. Thanks.
post #57 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope View Post
If I may gently intercede... it's possible, given that she didn't name the LDS church and what she describes does not resonate with your experience as an LDS member, that she's talking about another church. I don't know one way or another, but let's please (this is about everyone in the thread) give each other the benefit of the doubt. Thanks.
From the wording used, it is obvious. We're the only church who uses the term 'tithing settlement.' I didn't intend to be rude, but to clear up misconceptions.
post #58 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post
: Let me state that my dad is a former pastor so I may be coming in this with a bias, but when my dad was a ft pastor he still had to have another ft job because the tithes & offerings were no where near enough for him to support my Mom, brother and himself. Granted it was a small congregation but the fact is there were a lot of times when my Dad took from the family money to help members out and make sure the church bills got paid. My Dad didn't even net 10K a year for what is a very ft job so while I think volunteering is great, the reality is churches need money to run its not always about the mega size building and the pastor driving around in a Rolls Royce, hell my Dad had a jalopy that was so unreliable he sometimes had to take the subway and bus to go preach on Sunday mornings.
:

My pastor is not *officially* full-time. He knew when he took this parish that he would only get half-time pay. However, he has a work-at-home job that while it requires some travel, is VERY flexible, around his church schedule for services (Sunday morning, Wednesday evening, Saturday evening), sick/hospital calls, counseling, etc. However, he spends so much time on church stuff that he might as well as be full-time with the church. He also has something of a pension from a job he was at for some time years ago (he's 70), so that helps, too.

We've got a 75+ year old building that we're having to do major repairs to over the past several years. When the stained glass windows are missing more bits every week, you have to fix them - we were covering the holes weekly with clear mailing tape (stained glass was all removed, repaired and reinstalled on the inside with energy efficient modern windows on the exterior)! The building was a "fixer-upper" big time! Also things like electrical wiring upgrade (building still had the original cloth insulated wiring!), replacing the original boiler, new roof, etc. Some other major repairs have been stalled in progress due to contractor problems & lack of funding (you can't squeeze blood out of a stone). We nearly all tithe (lots of college students, though, who wouldn't give much), but it only stretches so far. Nobody is rich. This is definitely no mega church. My pastor is the only staff. We do give our deacon a small stipend. There is no secretary or office staff.

There is a pastoral discretionary fund that people donate to that helps out folks in AND outside of the congregation, in addition to use contributing substantially to local food banks, etc.

People donating their time is all well and good, but a church has to pay its pastor, utilities, mortgage, insurance, etc. Some churches are so small (such as mine) that there is only so much that can be done. One woman cleans the church as her tithe. There are some guys who do the lawn work in the warmer months and shovel snow/lay salt as needed. The flower beds are maintained by some woman, and all the flowers planted come from the flowering plants the congregation brings for Easter decorations. Someone else who is very handy does many small repairs himself. Women who sew repair the vestments and altar cloths as needed.

Things like singing, doing the bulletin, teaching Sunday school don't really qualify as something in lieu of a church donation because these are things that would always be done by volunteers, not someone paid. Some very large and/or major churches (such as the local cathedral) might have a paid choir director, but that's not too common among the Orthodox (which I am).
post #59 of 80
What the LDS church itself says about tithing:

"One of the blessings of membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the privilege of paying tithing. This privilege is a double blessing. By paying tithing, Church members show their gratitude to God for their blessings and their resolve to trust in the Lord rather than in material things. They also help further the work of the Lord in the earth, blessing others of God’s children with the opportunity to learn of Him and to grow in the gospel."

"Tithing funds are always used for the Lord's purposes—to build and maintain temples and meetinghouses, to sustain missionary work, to educate Church members, and to carry on the work of the Lord throughout the world."




www.lds.org



http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...nVCM1000004d82
post #60 of 80
I believe that giving, but not 'tithing' per se, is a NT concept. DH and I give, but it's not exactly 10%--for people on some incomes, 10% would be very stingy, whereas for others it would be a huge financial burden. The widow's mite and all that... it's not the percentage that counts, it's the attitude of the heart (faith that God will provide for one's family, recognition that all good things come from God, compassion for those in need, and so on).

My church has always been very, deliberately, low-key about giving. We don't pass around an offering plate during the service, there's just a discreet box in the foyer (or an online option if you want it). The pastor (my father) would NEVER dream of pressuring someone into giving, or checking up on people to make sure they were contributing, despite the fact that my family struggles financially. After all, it would come across as rather hypocritical to go to families and say 'We don't have enough money, YOU need to trust God more and give us yours!', wouldn't it? And we've never starved--God does provide.

Although giving to the church and giving to the pastor don't directly equate (our church gives from the offering to various missions/missionaries/charities, not to mention the upkeep of the building and all that), there have been some people over the years who've contributed to our family in non-monetary ways. One couple gave us a quarter of a beast every year to freeze; another couple gave us their old car, when we desperately needed one. I realise opinions differ on this practice--some feel it leads to favouritism and can result in parishioners trying to 'buy' the pastor, etc. Certainly it often resulted in Mum being offloaded blighty potatoes or inedible windfall apples 'for the pastor's family', not to mention bag after bag of unspeakably hideous hand-me-down clothes. But, some of the gifts did help us survive, and most of them came from noble motives, and we're grateful for that.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Religious Studies