Squelching my inner lactivist

[clicksab]

Being around family can be so hard! I'm trying to be a good daughter in law and it is starting to wear on me! My MIL breastfed her boys but she was, um, very different about it than I am. She had them down to 4 times a day at 2 months old (gasp!) and always excused herself from the room to nurse (of course, that would have been easy since she rarely had to feed them in public )
We're staying with the in laws for two weeks and I've just been nursing in front of them like it's completely natural, which it is. But this morning we went all went to church and I just knew NIP would not go over well with some of the people I've met there. Since my husband was preaching, I decided not to make a fuss about it and just go to the nursery. Well, my MIL was in there with a little boy. She gave me a blanket and told me I needed it because of the little boy. I told her Gabriella doesn't like having a blanket over her and she said I needed to at least try to cover up. And I did...and I am mad at myself for not standing up to her. I irritated my little one and she spent more time pushing away the blanket then eating.
We only see them maybe twice a year, so I'm trying to make the visit as pleasant as possible. But I feel bad for not standing up for my baby. How can I handle this if it comes up again? Thanks for letting me vent.

[dogmama]

When it comes to standing up to in-laws, any issue is difficult- this more than most. Is it possible to just not engage? If she mentions covering up again, say, "no thank you" with a smile on your face. Just remember, you know something she doesn't know- you know what's best for you and your babe.
Peace

[Breastfeeding Insomniac]

I think sometimes its easier to be a lactivist out in public w. people you don't know, then with people in your life.

As far as your MIL having all her babies down to bf 4x a day, it sounds like she has faulty memory, so many of that generation do. My grandmother insists my mom was potty trained at 9 months. My coworker whos in her 60s tells me she worked the 11p-7am shift starting from when all her kids were like a month old, and they were already sleeping through the night, she would feed them at 10p, and then again when she got home in the am. I am convinced her husband was sneaking those babies formula when she was at work, bc how does any bf baby sleep that long and go that long without eating? Especially at one month? Even if there is one baby like that, what are the odds she had three?

take your MIL's stories w/ a grain of salt

[llamalluv]

You were in the NURSEry. That's what it's for. It is NOT for entertaining (and rewarding!) small children that refuse to behave during the worship service. It irritates me to no end when I'm visiting a congregation and I hear a kid acting up and he's immediately taken to do exactly what he wants - run loose in the foyer (or the nursery, or the "cry room", etc).

I would have put the blanket over the kid's head and told him and your MIL if they didn't like it, he could go back into the auditorium where they were supposed to be.

[tashaharney]

heh, any time someone gave me blankets i didn't want/need, i would use them to cushion my back, or to help hold my arm up when ds was newborn. acted totally clueless about it, too. 'oh, thank you MIL (cousin, etc.) my back is so sore. this will be great for extra support!' or 'awesome! this will be great to cushion my bony elbows!'

then they say something about putting it over baby. and i say 'oh, now, i don't eat with blankets on me. i cant even sleep with a blanket over my head, i cant breathe! besides, i want to look at my baby, isn't he beautiful?' (if i felt really snotty, i'd drag 'em over to look at him nursing.) doesn't he look so happy and peaceful?

all totally like it never really occurred to me to cover up . . .

[ruhbehka]

Originally Posted by llamalluv

You were in the NURSEry. That's what it's for. It is NOT for entertaining (and rewarding!) small children that refuse to behave during the worship service. It irritates me to no end when I'm visiting a congregation and I hear a kid acting up and he's immediately taken to do exactly what he wants - run loose in the foyer (or the nursery, or the "cry room", etc).

I would have put the blanket over the kid's head and told him and your MIL if they didn't like it, he could go back into the auditorium where they were supposed to be.

[imatulip]

My kids were pretty good at knocking the blanket off, even at very young ages. It is hard though when it's your family. For me, my IL's were ok, my MOM still thinks nursing was a total waste of time.

If you're only visiting infrequently, it shouldn't be much of an issue, I know it's not easy though

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by ruhbehka

Yeah, I have PMS bigtime today.

[ruhbehka]

Originally Posted by llamalluv

Yeah, I have PMS bigtime today.

I'm going to gently suggest that perhaps your expectations for age-appropriate behavior are a bit off. Especially for small children sitting quietly for long periods of time.

(And that it's not necessarily a "reward" for young children to be taken out of church for a few minutes to let off some steam. It may well be productive. For our toddler, we start mass by pointing out lots of things to him, encouraging him to look around, etc. Then we progress to letting him flip through hymnals. Then look at toys. Then we bounce and whisper to him, trying to buy a few more minutes. Eventually, he will totally melt down, and just before that point, DH or I take him to the entryway to run around for a bit, or even outside. We try to return when he is capable of getting through a few more minutes. I think God understands that He made my wild and crazy little boy, and that my fellow parishioners are happier when he's not trying to climb over the pew into their laps or sobbing because we won't let him. )

[polykow]

Originally Posted by ruhbehka

I'm going to gently suggest that perhaps your expectations for age-appropriate behavior are a bit off. Especially for small children sitting quietly for long periods of time.

(

:

[motherearthdancer]

I know what you mean about in-laws. I've recently had to limit my contact with my SIL and my MIL and sever contact with my BIL. Still, I'm defining myself as a Lactavist because of this falling out, so I think good things will come of it! Good luck with your IL's. Let us know what happens.

[clicksab]

Thanks for all the support! I think there are a lot of other things coming into play with this whole situation...she's backed off a bit and is trying to be especially nice to me now. Let's just say this trip has been really stressful, and it ain't just because I keep whipping out the boobs.

I WISH I could just assume she was exaggerating! Unfortunately, she was back to working 10-12 hour days when her boys turned 2 months. So she bf them in the morning, when she came home at lunchtime, when she got home from work, and once at night. But she started them on solids to help tide them over when she was gone (yes, solids at 2 months). My FIL thought that's just what you did, and has been very surprised at how much I nurse! Luckily, my MIL will agree that I know a lot more than she did when she had babies

As far as the whole church thing...I'm backing out of that convo before I say something ugly, I'm in a crabby mood today!

[meganmarie]

You know, if your MIL continued to bf after going back to working such long hours...you could look at that as pretty impressive, especially since I assume this took place 25-30 years ago when there was ZERO support for nursing mothers, much less nursing working mothers! So she was practically a lactivist! And peds would tell moms to start solids a lot earlier back then so she didn't have the kind of info we have now. Thinking about it that way may help you think about her differently. I bet if you told her you thought she was awesome for having done that - she'd really appreciate it. I know how hard it is to get along with family yet stand up for what you know is right, and you're doing a good job walking that fine line, which is ultimately in the best interests of your baby anyway. A good relationship with grandparents is so important.

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by ruhbehka

I'm going to gently suggest that perhaps your expectations for age-appropriate behavior are a bit off. Especially for small children sitting quietly for long periods of time.

I think the vast majority of 2 to 3 year olds can sit for an hour to an hour and a half with minor distractions. At least, this has been my experience in 15 years of worshiping with other Christians. It also seems to me that the one whose parents don't teach them how to do that, are the ones that cause problems in their Bible School classes and the ones who run through the auditorium into the elderly.

Where my husband and I are worshiping now, we have eight under 5, and they all sit quietly during the lesson and worship service. Believe me when I say that I know it isn't easy to teach that, but it can be taught.

As for it being a reward - Kids are not stupid. If a child learns that by "acting up" he gets to run around and so he acts up in order to do "the forbidden" (basically anything the other kids aren't allowed to do) - he's going to act up whenever he wants to go run.

My best friend ran into this very same problem. Her two 2-yo's decided that it was more fun to run around in one of the class rooms during services than to stay in the pew and play with their quiet toys. Of course, it took her a few weeks to realize what was happening. After a trip back to the classroom where the children were forced to sit in her lap, they quit "fussing" in the pew.

Either way - a child who is not nursing should not get preferential treatment over a nursing child in the nursery, which was my original point.

[Momtwice]

I've been either working with or raising kids for over 20 years and I disagree that children who can't sit for an hour at three have behavorial problems. But I do strongly agree that a nursing mom should never be harrassed for a millisecond for nursing in a nursery!

[ruhbehka]

Originally Posted by llamalluv

I think the vast majority of 2 to 3 year olds can sit for an hour to an hour and a half with minor distractions. ... It also seems to me that the one whose parents don't teach them how to do that, are the ones that cause problems in their Bible School classes and the ones who run through the auditorium into the elderly.

Where my husband and I are worshiping now, we have eight under 5, and they all sit quietly during the lesson and worship service. Believe me when I say that I know it isn't easy to teach that, but it can be taught.
...
As for it being a reward - Kids are not stupid. If a child learns that by "acting up" he gets to run around and so he acts up in order to do "the forbidden" (basically anything the other kids aren't allowed to do) - he's going to act up whenever he wants to go run.

I guess I just disagree that normal toddler behavior, like wanting to move around, run, and jump, is "acting up."

And to be honest, although there are some children who will comply fairly willingly with sitting for long periods of time quietly, the "vast majority" who do seem to be coerced into it by pinching, spanking, threatening, and various other techniques that I am not comfortable with.

My child would never be allowed to run into an elderly person, FWIW. But he is a little ball of energy, as are many 1 - 3 year olds. He doesn't even "sit still" when he's asleep.

[tuansprincess]

OP - I'm sorry your MIL is harrasing you. I am confident that you will be more prepared next time and can handle it to your satisfaction.

Originally Posted by llamalluv

You were in the NURSEry. That's what it's for. It is NOT for entertaining (and rewarding!) small children that refuse to behave during the worship service. It irritates me to no end when I'm visiting a congregation and I hear a kid acting up and he's immediately taken to do exactly what he wants - run loose in the foyer (or the nursery, or the "cry room", etc).

I will say that people like you are why I dread going to church with my children (3 and 1). Your expectations for a child's behavior in a church environment are really out of wack!

We, the grown-ups are hauling them to a "worship service" for us and expect them to be happy and quiet the whole time?

I am not rewarding my child for "bad behavior" by respecting their needs - even if it comes at the temporary expense of my "worship service".

I agree with Rebecca on this one.

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by tuansprincess

I will say that people like you are why I dread going to church with my children (3 and 1). Your expectations for a child's behavior in a church environment are really out of wack!

We, the grown-ups are hauling them to a "worship service" for us and expect them to be happy and quiet the whole time?

I am not rewarding my child for "bad behavior" by respecting their needs - even if it comes at the temporary expense of my "worship service".

I agree with Rebecca on this one.

If my expectations are so "out of whack" then why is it that all of the kids where I worship sit quietly during services?

Okay, there's one that the parents had a hard time with, but when she misbehaved she was taken outside and they sat in the car. With nothing to look at or play with. (Unlike back in the building, where there were quiet activities). And that was a phase that lasted about 5 or 6 months, and it wasn't an EVERY service thing. It was every few weeks. And it's a phase that she has grown out of now.

And I COMPLETELY disagree that the worship service is for "adults only". I believe that the first few years of life are a VERY important training time, both in and out of worship. How can you expect your kids to believe in God if they never see you doing what you are supposed to do? (Worshiping, fellowshipping, singing, praying, studying, etc?) IMO, it shouldn't be a "special" thing done only when a child is deemed to be "old enough" - it should be a normal thing.

You still completely disregard the fact that my point was that it was outrageous that the OP was shamed for using the nursery to nurse!

[SashaBear]

At our church children are not expected to sit in the sanctuary for the worship service. We have children's church starting at 3 and up that is geared towards their age appropriateness.

We have adult sermons that often cover adult topics that I would not want my children hearing (mine are little now).

And there is no way my almost 3 year old could sit still long enough for a sermon. He can't even sit still and play games with the speech therapists. I don't know many that could.


llamaluv-are you currently a mom? I'm a bit confused my your siggy.

[purple_kangaroo]

Originally Posted by llamalluv

You were in the NURSEry. That's what it's for. It is NOT for entertaining (and rewarding!) small children that refuse to behave during the worship service. It irritates me to no end when I'm visiting a congregation and I hear a kid acting up and he's immediately taken to do exactly what he wants - run loose in the foyer (or the nursery, or the "cry room", etc).

I would have put the blanket over the kid's head and told him and your MIL if they didn't like it, he could go back into the auditorium where they were supposed to be.

OK, I DO think it was out of line for the mom to be asked to cover up in the nursery.

But I did want to point out that in most churches the nursery is not intended (or at least not solely intended) as a place for nursing mothers.

By definition a nursery is a place where small children are cared for. "Entertaining . . . small children . . . during the worship service" is EXACTLY the purpose for which a nursery is set up.

Just because it has the word "nurse" in it doesn't necessarily mean it's an area intended for nursing. The word nursery is derived from the word nursemaid (as in the non-parental caretaker who traditionally cared for children in an area of the house [the nursery] away from the rest of the household), not from nurse as in breastfeeding. The American Heritage Dictionary defines nursery as "a room or area in a household set apart for the use of children" and gives the etymology as "[Middle English noricerie, probably from Old French norricerie, from norrice, nursemaid; see nurse.]"

It is entirely appropriate for small children to be entertained in the church nursery. Most nurseries contain toys, books and coloring/art supplies intended for older children to use for that purpose. It's much easier for a mother of an infant to find a place to nurse a baby (in many churches they just nurse in their pew without even leaving the service) than for someone to find a place to contain/entertain a restless and/or tantruming toddler.

For example, our church has both a nursery for the babies and toddlers and a "mothers' nursing room" for mothers to nurse their babies. The mothers' nursing room is equipped with comfortable chairs, sofas, etc. and has one-way glass and a speaker system so mothers can sit there and still hear/see the service while dealing with fussy and/or nursing babies.

The nursery is the Sunday-School room for the small children, and is a completely separate area set up for a different purpose. The toddlers have their own little Sunday School lesson, snack, crafts, etc. in the nursery--it is THEIR room. It would be entirely inappropriate for anyone to barge into the children's nursery and say, "I need to nurse my baby and this is the nursery, so you take that child out into the service where he belongs and leave me in peace to NURSE my baby in the NURSEry."

It would, on the other hand, be entirely appropriate for a nursing mom to ask a disruptive toddler to be taken out if they were in the mother's nursing room, which is specifically set up for nursing mothers and their infants.

I've been in churches where the nursery also doubled as the place where some mothers chose to go to nurse their babies, but never in one where anyone would demand that older kids or non-nursing toddlers not be in the nursery (or say that it was only for mothers nursing infants). And I've been in a lot of churches, since DH and I both come from pastor/elder/missionary families.

Different churches have different set-ups, but it kind of bothered me to see someone saying that small children don't belong in a nursery being entertained, since in most churches the nursery was built with exactly that intent.