Lactivist conversation overheard...

[DBZ]

At the end of our church coffee hour today, I picked up on someone's conversation. This mom had an older DD with her of about 10 or 12. This mom was talking to another woman and the subject was nursing. The mom was telling the lactivist that she starved her child for a week (this is what caught my attention) because she wasn't producing any milk and she didn't have the glands to do it. The lactivist inserted some yeah but did you try reply that I didn't catch, so the DH starts to raise his voice just a bit and said that his wife just didn't have the duct work. Then the lactivist said, "well maybe you weren't drinking enough water." The mom said that she did and that when she pumped she wouldn't even get a drop and that she worked with LCs for that whole week. At this point the lactivist let it go by saying that maybe this mom was one of the few who really couldn't nurse and that wet nurses used to be well respected.

At this point I was feeling bad for the mom and was heading over to them. I told them that I couldn't nurse my oldest DD and that I my youngest was still happily nursing.

It was really wierd overhearing all this (not a conversation you hear everyday). I really gained a new perspective and decided that if I'm talking to a mom and she tells me she couldn't nurse, I might ask why and all, but pretty much leave it at that. After today, I don't see the need to go through all the woulda's, coulda's and shoulda's unless of course someone is pregnant or TTC, but even then I'll try to be more gentle. I've over done it myself before too.

I do hope to run into this lactivist again. I love talking about breastfeeding!

[ollineeba]

Yeah, I would have felt bad for that mom, too. There is just no way to know what she was going through at that time that she came to the conclusion she was unable to nurse.
But it was nice of you to plant the seed that it is still possible to nurse future children, like you did

[angelpie545]

Yes, it's hard to know what to do in those situations. Unless you were personally there to witness what happened, it's probably best not to make judgments, as hard as that is to do as a lactivist. My closest friend did not breastfeed her baby because she "couldn't"...but in actuality, she choose to pump instead of breastfeed her baby, and her nipples suffered quite a lot, and I suspect she may have had thrush on them. I believe that because she never breastfed and just pumped, she lost quite a bit of her milk supply, and I don't think she fed her baby enough in the early days, but a lot of that is because of what her doctor told her, and the "new mom" syndrome that some moms get. I was worried about offending her, so I kept my mouth shut. She was very set in her ways, and I didn't think our friendship was worth ruining over that.

[MilkTrance]

Well, if you want someone feeling like garbage, I did that to myself. I assumed my mother didn't try to breastfeed me -- I even started a thread about it. Turns out, she did try.

A few weeks later it dawns on me that I actually have tongue tie.

So yes, it's best not to judge. Especially at a church!

[ruhbehka]

Poor mama.

What I usually try to say is something like:

"You know, a lot of women who aren't able to nurse their child go on to have better success with subsequent kids. Especially if they take time during pregnancy to do lots of research, work with an LC before the baby arrives, have lots of supplies on hand, etc. It's really hard to get the help you need during those foggy early weeks, even if you are working with an LC.

There are also supplemental nursing systems, where you can give the baby formula at the breast, which can be used for the whole time you nurse, if you truly can't build a big enough milk supply. That way, you still get to enjoy a nursing relationship.

There really are a lot of options out there, and if you ever want to try bf again with another baby, I'd be happy to help in any way I can during your pregnancy or after the baby arrives. It must have been really heartbreaking for you to try so hard with your first little one and then be forced to give up."

[MommytoTwo]

Yeah I agree. There is no point making the mom feel bad if its a done deal. Same thing w/ births IMO. You get lots of "well did you try this or that".... yes I did and its over so lets move on.

[angelpie545]

Originally Posted by ruhbehka

Poor mama.

What I usually try to say is something like:

"You know, a lot of women who aren't able to nurse their child go on to have better success with subsequent kids. Especially if they take time during pregnancy to do lots of research, work with an LC before the baby arrives, have lots of supplies on hand, etc. It's really hard to get the help you need during those foggy early weeks, even if you are working with an LC.

There are also supplemental nursing systems, where you can give the baby formula at the breast, which can be used for the whole time you nurse, if you truly can't build a big enough milk supply. That way, you still get to enjoy a nursing relationship.

There really are a lot of options out there, and if you ever want to try bf again with another baby, I'd be happy to help in any way I can during your pregnancy or after the baby arrives. It must have been really heartbreaking for you to try so hard with your first little one and then be forced to give up."

I agree-this is really good way to get the point across by being supportive and non-judgmental.

[mama24-7]

I am not a fast thinker & so often have conversations that I wish I could think of something to say. I really like what a PP'er said about preparing for the next time.

The one time I really wish I'd thought quickly to say something was to my dh
's aunt's friend. She told me her son self weaned at 6 months b/c he was the youngest & was too interested in his brothers. Um, no, he didn't self wean. You CIO your kids at 6 months & since he is more interested in other things during the day & isn't allowed to nurse at night, you just give him a bottle. Now, this isn't exactly what I would have said, but it's what I think about saying in retrospect now.

The other thing I think we need to mention in these situations is looking into donor milk. Keeping w/ the WHO guidelines on formula, it is supposed to be the 4th option, not the 2nd or 3rd. Many people don't realize that it is an option. If we start planting this seed, hopefully in the not too distant future, it'll be considered alongside formula if not before.

Sus

[Dov'sMom]

My SIL is one of those few who really, truly, can't produce enough milk. Her first baby was starved until 6 weeks -- literally -- they didn't have health insurance and the doctor my brother brought the baby to at 3-4 weeks when he was constantly crying told him there was no point in seeing the baby because it was surely colic and that he'd have to charge $X if he actually examined the baby. DB believed him and brought his poor starving baby home. My mother and I begged DB to try a bottle (we were out of town, and just heard the baby screaming on the phone and he sounded so hungry) but DB didn't want to do anything to risk DN's nursing relationship. SIL was nursing on demand around the clock and taking supplements. Well, DB was away for a week and changed DN's diaper the day he came back and screamed -- he could see every rib -- they took DN to the hospital and he weighed less than his birthweight. They said he could have died in another couple of days. At that point SIL started to see LCs (after starting to supplement, obviously), but nothing helped increase her supply. They said that DN's latch wasn't the best and it could be that was why her supply never really took off, so with her second, SIL saw LCs from the very start, made sure her latch was proper, took all sorts of supplements -- even sent DN to his grandparents for almost two weeks so she could concentrate on the new one, but at 2 weeks she still weighed less than when she left the hospital. For some reason, SIL just can't make enough milk.

Now I had a good supply of frozen milk from DS when SIL gave birth, and I tried to convince her to take it with her (she stopped at my house on the way home from the hospital -- I was living nearby), but the whole idea grossed her out. We were moving away that week; maybe if I'd been around to make the offer when she started supplementing she would have taken it? I don't know. But knowing the pain and struggle that went into feeding her children, and respecting her right to define her own limits, I would never challenge that decision. Of course, if it came up again, I would probably make the same offer, but I wouldn't push things.

[sapphire_chan]

The two second time moms in my husband's immediate family both had some problems with nursing their first children--one had to exclusively pump actually-- and were able to start breastfeeding immediately with no trouble at all with these babies.