What is more important?

[countrycountess]

A UC, Home birth, or a healthy baby and Mother??

The answer to this question is becoming more and more blurred as I read this board. I'm sorry but its true. Even I felt belittled that I had a hospital birth and an OB. Wether its wanted or not (the hospital/OB) I feel the Mother's here who had such, are treated as "less than" the Mothers here, who did not.

I'm sorry but I have to address this. There was the homebirth thread too...as if you weren't even "safe" amongst the "hospital birthers". That seemed to alienate ANYONE who had intervention or heaven help us, chose hospital over HB, UC. I wanted so badly to fit in here but NOT at the expense of my health, my baby's health OR that of another Mother's/baby's life.

Some of the Mother's here are going FAR beyond what is safe and healthy to achieve this "perfect homebirth" and I am reading about it here EVERYDAY. I am seeing the responses as well (or lack of). I'm sorry but I feel there is too much "peer pressure" here to have this perfect HB "experience" and it is going as far as to jeopardize the health and mental well-being of these mama's and their babies..It would be one thing if ALL "experieneces" were supported here but this doesn't seem to be the case, actually its proven quite the opposite.

Too many birth stories that are shared here, (that should be celebrated equally IMO) are prefaced with "warnings/disturbing/depressing" etc just b/c mom/baby ended up in hospital/intervention etc and to *me* that is just unacceptable. I think all births should be celebrated, equally announced and cherished, not shunned, frowned upon, or prefaced by any means.

So scream at me, kick me out, ban me if you have to, but I HAD to say this as it has been eating at me for days. I really like it here and over all, the parenting styles and ways of thinking agree with me tremendously. I admire so many here for the amount of dedication and research that has gone into many of the choices, however the level of acceptance is disturbing and saddens me. I really think there are some lovely and unique mama's here and do not wish to offend any one. I do however hope to help other's to see how this appears to other Mommies and that it is quite hurtful and leaves some mom's with a profound sense of rejection or even failure. That just doesn't have to be...

Congratulations to ALL the Mama's here!! I wish you and your babies the VERY, VERY best life has to offer...regardless of your birth experience!!!

[wife&mommy]

Sorry you feel that way. I haven't felt put out by anyone here, well except this post, which greatly offends me.

[HappyFox05]

I chose a hospital birth cause in our case it was safer - our only other choice was UC. I haven't felt any kind of negative vibes from the message board because of my choice.

[raelize]

i am a homebirther and come from a family of homebirthers. honestly, except for my mother, one SIL, and one close friend, there is no one else IRL that i know that i can talk to about it. i am SO glad that there are seperate homebirth threads. and really, it wouldn't make sense to not have them. the issues surrounding hospital births and home births are different. how could i advise you of that situation? how could you discuss my issues with me? they are different ways of birth. do what you feel comfortable with, not what you think you have to do to fit in. i don't like to hear about hospital tranfers or hospital interventions, they make me sad for baby and mommy. probably the same way you feel when you read about people "taking chances" with their babies having them at home.
i don't think i have ever attacked anyone for their birth choice. but you sound pretty angry about other people making their decisions and wanting to talk about them on their own board or threads. do you feel upset about your births? are you threatened because some women choose to birth in their homes or without assistance? that is the vibe i pick up from your post.
shoudl we not allow queer parenting threads cause you are straight? what about divorced parents? i don't believe war, so maybe we shouldn't allow parents whose partners are overseas. cause really-those options make about as much sense as you complaining that some women choose to birth at home and want to talk about it with other homebirthers.

[ivymae]

I'm curious what you have seen that seems "FAR beyond what is safe and healthy", because I have yet to see a birth story here that reaches that line... 99% of all homebirthers/UC'ers I've ever met or spoken to are perfectly willing to accept medical assistance when it is necessary, and to imply that any of the women here value a crunchy experience more than the life of their child is pretty offensive.

For what it's worth, HBers and UCers have to live every day in a culture that disrespects them - what does it hurt for you not to read one thread?

I do think there is a level of snobbery and cattiness between the 'classes' of birth - don't get me wrong, there is major room for improvement in supporting each other and celebrating each other - but you are biting off more than that issue here.

[YummyYumYumMama]

Originally Posted by countrycountess

I think all births should be celebrated, equally announced and cherished, not shunned, frowned upon, or prefaced by any means.

I completely agree with that.

I also chose a hospital birth, and haven't felt belittled about it on here... but I HAVE felt weird when reading anti-hospital stuff, obviously. I think it is hard to be in a forum where a lot of women have had really bad hospital experiences, or will freely talk about the fact that hospital birth means you are obviously more likely to have interventions (which is a fact, but if that is your best choice, it's hard to hear that fact all the time). It can make those of us who have chosen a hospital birth feel like lesser women or birthers - but I don't think that anyone on here WANTS us to feel that way. I think that's just what happens when you're hormonal and are doing something that isn't the popular choice. At the end of the day, if you trust your HCP (or yourself if you're UCing) and are comfortable with and empowered by where you are giving birth, and you know how to be safe and advocate for yourself, that's more important. I think most of us would agree on that.

But I have seen moms on here who have chosen elective c-sections, moms who have done UCs, and everything in between. I think our DDC gets along pretty well and it doesn't seem to matter so much how we're birthing. I'm sad to hear that you have felt belittled for your choices, but I really don't think the women of our DDC are all the crunchier-than-thou type who think hospital birthers suck. Maybe you ran into some crappy stuff here or there, but I think in general we're all pretty awesome...

[stellimamo]

As for the disclaimers

I know that right now as a woman in labor, reading birth stories I want to read positive, happy ending, non intervention stories. I want to suround myself with the positive. If you look even stories that end up as HBs but had bumps along the way still usually have disclaimers to them.

The disclaimers don't lessen the value of that birth or even "not shunned, frowned upon". Posters still comment usually very positivly and congradulate the new mama. If the mother is feeling upset or disapointed with the birth she is allowed to express that and often posters will give condolences.

[zjande]

I think everyone would agree that the health & safety of both mama & baby are the most important aspect of a birth. But every family will draw the line of what they feel is healthiest & safest in different places.

I assume that there are far more mamas who birth in hospitals than not on MDC.

I felt the homebirthers thread here in our ddc was helpful for me because there are so many issues totally specific to a homebirth & I was able to take notes, ask questions & find support from those who'd btdt.

I've had 3 hospital births & now just had my 1st UC. I was just as active in my last ddc as this one & felt just as supported for my hospital birth as I did for my UC. I'm sorry your experience has been different. I thought you'd received a lot of support & advice in your thread about fearing the hospital.

I do see mamas prefacing some posts with "warning" etc but I haven't seen anything but support for them. I've seen ddc members posting things such as "your story isn't isn't disturbing, it's beautiful, congratulations!"

I'm pretty sure I've read every birth story thread but I must have missed members posting unsupportive words to hospital birthers. Frankly, I'd be a bit shocked to see members of our ddc saying such things.

[Ms. B. Sprout]

Originally Posted by MmeMuffin

But I have seen moms on here who have chosen elective c-sections, moms who have done UCs, and everything in between. I think our DDC gets along pretty well and it doesn't seem to matter so much how we're birthing. I'm sad to hear that you have felt belittled for your choices, but I really don't think the women of our DDC are all the crunchier-than-thou type who think hospital birthers suck. Maybe you ran into some crappy stuff here or there, but I think in general we're all pretty awesome...

:

I am also a hospital birther, and I'm ok with everything I've read in our DDC. I may well even end up with a c-section for an array of reasons. Everyone has to make their own choices about birth. That's just the bottom line.

I believe that MDC should be a safe space for women who birth outside the box, so to speak. If I want support for choosing an OB-attended hospital birth, I can get that in lots of places both on the internet and IRL. That's not always true for the homebirthers and UCers.

, countrycountess. I hope you start feeling better about things.

[elspethshimon]

Originally Posted by countrycountess

Too many birth stories that are shared here, (that should be celebrated equally IMO) are prefaced with "warnings/disturbing/depressing" etc just b/c mom/baby ended up in hospital/intervention etc and to *me* that is just unacceptable. I think all births should be celebrated, equally announced and cherished, not shunned, frowned upon, or prefaced by any means.

Those disclaimers are posted out of respect for women who have been traumatized by their births and may not want to read things that trigger horrible memories.

[zjande]

Originally Posted by ivymae

......and to imply that any of the women here value a crunchy experience more than the life of their child is pretty offensive.

I do have to agree with this point.

I like to think of mdc members as generally more educated people. We research our birth choices & choose wisely what's best for our families & babies. It's not a contest to see who's "crunchier". That is a preposterous & offensive claim.

And again, I'm sorry you haven't felt supported.

[clintonhillmama]

i can understand where you're coming from countrycountess - but MDC is pretty crunchy. at the same time, i think it's really wonderful and important that women have a place to talk about HB and UC since many of us don't have a lot of support IRL. when i was pg for the first time, i didn't even know what UC was, and i thought all midwives were cut from the same crunchy cloth. so MDC has been very educational for me.

each woman needs to process their births for themselves - so if they put a "warning" in the title of their thread, it may be more a reflection of how they're feeling about it at that moment than passing judgement that it was not a "good birth." i can personally relate to that feeling - my son was a c/s, and i had a lot of sadness and anger about it that i needed to work through. it took me almost a year before i could really talk about it without crying. it may have been the perfect birth for him, but it took me time to be at peace with it.

i'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that people are going "far beyond what's safe and healthy" - and i also think that is a personal issue. what i consider safe or unsafe may be different from other people. i think there is a legitimate argument about the supposed safety of hospital births over births outside of hospitals.

in the end, we're all moms, and regardless of how or where your babe is born, we all just want each other to be healthy and loved. i feel a ton of support in this DDC, and have seen nothing but positivity and warmth in the birth announcement posts.

[Ms. B. Sprout]

Originally Posted by elspethshimon

Those disclaimers are posted out of respect for women who have been traumatized by their births and may not want to read things that trigger horrible memories.

:

And as a person who is still recovering from an awful birth with DS, I am frankly glad to have the disclaimer so that I know what I'm getting into when I click the link.

I always viewed these disclaimers as along the same lines as those posted in New & Current Events, when a news story might be a trigger for an MDC member. For example, here's a current post title in NCE:

"I wish I hadn't read about this. I'm really upset (highly disturbing, trigger)"

That might be a different way to view the disclaimers, countrycountess. Again, I hope you are feeling better about things.

[MCKH]

I agree that there is room for improvement on this board as far as understanding and supporting one another making the choices we feel are best. But this is MDC and it's kind of par for the course that you're going to get the alternative/natural perspective on things. This is not a typical pregnancy board.

I have felt very supported here (although I did have a homebirth), even though I did decide to do things like have ultrasounds, take the GBS test, the GD test, etc. Some moms feel even those "interventions" are going too far and I couldn't agree less. But you know what? It's my choice and it's my pregnancy and I feel great about the choices I made. I hope everyone feels the same about their pregnancies.

So forget what anyone else thinks or says. Who cares? If you are satisfied with your birth that is truly ALL that matters.

[SheBear]

Your opening question implies that "UC/homebirth" and "healthy mom/baby" are mutually exclusive.

Sorry, but they simply aren't. There are no facts to back up such an implication, and it would not be possible to find any, because--no matter how it makes you feel--it simply isn't true.

Every birth is a separate, specific event, and should be weighed only on it's own merits/circumstances as to what is prudent, safe, etc. But overall, you cannot say that homebirth, or planned UC, is less safe than hospital birth. You just can't.....and believe me, many have tried, and failed, to make that argument.

Some of the Mother's here are going FAR beyond what is safe and healthy to achieve this "perfect homebirth" and I am reading about it here EVERYDAY.

I am thankful that--at least now, at least in this country--it is still being left up to ME to determine "what is safe and healthy" in terms of how I approach pregnancy and childbirth for myself. I'm very thankful that this decision is still left to the parents, in spite of lots of pressure
to take that decision away from us and give it to someone....else. I will long fight to preserve that right for myself and for all parents, even those who choose to birth in a hospital. I'm not willing to give up the right to choose what I believe is best for my child, my family, my self to ANYONE--not you, not some doctor or association of doctors, not some politician. I feel that you greatly overstepped your bounds in declaring what is "safe and healthy" for all mothers and their babies. The only decisions you have to make are the ones that affect you, your child, your family. Please do not presume to try to make those decisions for me and mine.

I do not believe you will be screamed at, kicked out or banned from here. The women on this forum are far too nice! But I would gently suggest that there are MANY places on the internet that share your opinion about UC and homebirth, and perhaps you would find your thoughts (on this topic) more welcome at one of those places.

But I highly doubt that you will find much supportfor this kind of judgemental divisiveness on this forum, or really, on the whole of MDC. This is a Natural Family Living and Attachment Parenting community, and like it or not, options and choices in pregnancy and childbirth--including homebirth and UC--have always been significant issues in NFL/AP communities. I pray that they always will be!

Love and peace, Mama--live and let live!

[AGlimmeringHope]

Wow. I'm kind of speechless.

I have a bit of a unique perspective- as I've been posting here both as a mama planning a hospital birth with a midwife, planning a UC (though those plans were short lived as DH quickly changed his mind), to having a homebirth midwife (and still winding up with a UC!). In any and all of those decisions, and the decisions I've made along the way, I've felt nothing but concern and support from the women in this DDC. Maybe not everyone agreed with the decisions I made or would have done things the same way...and they may have given an opinion or addressed their concern when I brought something up but it was never in a way that made me feel like I was doing something wrong or horrible.

Out of the DDCs I've been a part of, I think ours has been one of the more supportive I've experienced. I enjoyed the separate homebirth thread because it is a completely different birth experience and there are completely different things to consider. Just as there are with hospital birth. I don't think any one way/place to birth (hosp., BC, HB, or UC) is any better or holds more value or merit than another- it's always the mama and the baby that matter! I also haven't seen any birth stories where I think a perfect homebirth has been given more concern or regard than a mama or baby's health. We've had some mama's and some baby's transfer on here (incl. my LO) and if anything that shows that the health/safety of those involved was more important than a perfect experience! Some of the HBers are more able and ready to handle what someone else can see as an emergency situation because they've done their research or have prior experience. But I don't see where anyone here could be accused of risking their life or the life of their child from their HB/UC experience.

I'm sorry you've felt unsupported and offended.

[swellmomma]

Originally Posted by stellimamo

As for the disclaimers

I know that right now as a woman in labor, reading birth stories I want to read positive, happy ending, non intervention stories. I want to suround myself with the positive. If you look even stories that end up as HBs but had bumps along the way still usually have disclaimers to them.

The disclaimers don't lessen the value of that birth or even "not shunned, frowned upon". Posters still comment usually very positivly and congradulate the new mama. If the mother is feeling upset or disapointed with the birth she is allowed to express that and often posters will give condolences.

lurking and reading but wanted to say good luck and congrats with your new year's baby

[cravenab00]

i guess i'm a bit confused. not once in this DDC have i ever read something judgmental regarding birth choices. well, at least up until now.

i suppose i could see how someone might have felt excluded by the homebirth thread. but think of it this way. in our society, the vast majority of people are shunned and made to feel like evil people if they are planning a homebirth. its a hard thing to deal with. i think that was the whole reason for the thread in the first place. to vent about those feelings.

not once have i seen a mama choose an "experience" over safety here. not once. elsewhere, i have seen that (at least, IMO) but never in our DDC.

for me personally. our local hospitals are a HUGE risk. one has a 47% c/s rate, the other 61%. both have a 97% pitocin rate. 99% epidural rate. i have worked in both hospitals on the OB units as a nursing student. i saw some very scary things there.
my state is on a witch hunt for midwives. i am not exaggerating. i do not feel right asking a mw to take such a huge legal risk for me. there are only 2 in my area, both of which are 2.5 hours away. i have already had one UC. i've been through medical training. my DH is a nurse. i feel very confident in my body's abilities to birth. i am also thankful that i have a family doctor who knows of my UC choices, and respects them. i know i can go to him if i have a problem.

i'm not sure what prompted the start of this thread but i'm sorry if someone felt offended.

[starry_mama]

[VickV]

I've felt a lot of judgment in other areas of MDC, but as one of the few elective C/S moms in our DDC, I can say honestly I've never felt judged or belittled for my choices in our DDC. And I *love* the homebirth and UC birth stories. LOVE them. While it isn't for me mentally, reading the stories lets me daydream about a homebirth on a more emotional/spiritual (personal spirit, not higher power spirit) level.