Women of Color #12 - Page 8

[barose]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I dont have cable. So... how long before you think the salient points will be on YouTube? :

Good question! I have to miss most of tonight’s episode. I hope they at least to a rebroadcast.

[purplegirl]

Originally Posted by barose

ITA. I would still be single if I didnt branch out.

Though it saddens me that we are losing our brothers.

It is very sad from a lot of perspectives.

[eilonwy]

I must say, I'm kind of conflicted about the whole thing. Anyone care to discuss? I'm sure that I'll rub people the wrong way, but that's not my intent... two parts of it would have to do with something that we discussed aaaages ago on this thread (the fact that most of this group consists of a very elite group of women, and the antagonism toward light-skinned black people), and those in and of themselves can be very sensitive subjects.

(I'm kind of paranoid about sensitive subjects these days, as I have been accused of harassment simply for asking questions ...I feel the need to walk on eggshells. )

[barose]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I must say, I'm kind of conflicted about the whole thing. Anyone care to discuss? I'm sure that I'll rub people the wrong way, but that's not my intent... two parts of it would have to do with something that we discussed aaaages ago on this thread (the fact that most of this group consists of a very elite group of women, and the antagonism toward light-skinned black people), and those in and of themselves can be very sensitive subjects.

(I'm kind of paranoid about sensitive subjects these days, as I have been accused of harassment simply for asking questions ...I feel the need to walk on eggshells. )

Can you explain what this means? I honestly dont know.

[eilonwy]

The majority of the women here are elite --they're part of a minority within a minority. Their experiences don't reflect a lot of the most common aspects of "black life." :

[barose]

OK. I think I understand what you mean now.

I admit I shied away from this thread for a while because I feared I wouldn't fit in. For some reason, I returned yesterday. Ill try to read several pages to get to know some of you better.

[purplegirl]

Posting on the go....
Colorism is still very much an issue in the black race and it goes both ways. I was so hoping that by the time I had children (yet to happen) or when my nieces and nephews got older, it would be passe. It is not and it is so frustrating.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

The majority of the women here are elite --they're part of a minority within a minority. Their experiences don't reflect a lot of the most common aspects of "black life." :

I need things spelled out for me sometimes so I would prefer you just say what you mean. No grudges, promise. Are you reffering to the fact that some mamas on here are not married to black men? I did not see the show I don't watch much television.

[eilonwy]

Oh, not that at all. No, it's more like... the demographic here is decidedly upper middle class. At least. I remember a few years ago we discussed home ownership in the black community, for example, and I was the only person who was renting. Someone (Erika?) had brought it up because they'd encountered a news article which asserted that home ownership was a relatively recent thing for most black homeowners, and that it was still not terribly common. Most of the women posting here have college educations, something else which doesn't reflect the majority of black women in this country. Being married *at all* doesn't reflect the experience of a significant proportion of black mothers. In any case, all those things might come into play if we were to take a serious look at the issue of black women (and men) marrying non-black folks.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by purplegirl

Posting on the go....
Colorism is still very much an issue in the black race and it goes both ways. I was so hoping that by the time I had children (yet to happen) or when my nieces and nephews got older, it would be passe. It is not and it is so frustrating.

:

[barose]

eilonwy - Thanks for spelling it out for me!

I consider myself middle class or some people would even consider me upper. But, we rent. Our rent is $2400/mo because of our location though.

We are not married but we don’t have kids. I don’t think we will rush off and make it "legal" if I get pregnant. Maybe we will, maybe we wont, but I'm not attached to the idea.

I think some statistics that state that many black mothers (or mothers in general) are single doesn’t take into account many do have partners/fathers in the home with them. They just haven’t said “I do”.

[eilonwy]

Cohabitation certainly happens... but I don't think that counting cohabiting and/or commited couples as married would change the statistic all that much. I watched the first episode of Everybody Hates Chris when it was on a few years ago. One of the things I remember most vividly was the scene where Chris' father says goodnight. "I'll see you in the morning," he says, and then there's the narration: My father was one of four fathers on the block. He was never one for huge shows of affection, but when he said, "I'll see you in the morning," he was saying "I love you."

In other words... it's by no means a "new" issue, you know? When you take into account that choosing not to be legally married while maintaining a committed relationship tends to be seen as a "white" thing, much like homeschooling, then you can see that the issue is, perhaps, one of concern. I"m not sure, though... It's complicated. I have a lot of thoughts on it.

As to not fitting in here... I worried about it too, but this is definately one of the coolest threads around.

[barose]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

In other words... it's by no means a "new" issue, you know? When you take into account that choosing not to be legally married while maintaining a committed relationship tends to be seen as a "white" thing, much like homeschooling, then you can see that the issue is, perhaps, one of concern. I"m not sure, though... It's complicated. I have a lot of thoughts on it.

Good point.

When older black folks find out that we are "living together" - they cringe. Even my family is pretty silent on the matter; they just don’t want to talk about it. His parents (who are in their '80s) are happy for us! They don’t care that we are not married. They just want grandchildren before they pass.

My older brother is the same way. He's been an in relationship for years with the same woman, but they are not married – no kids. But he is not really apart of the black community himself. Avid biker, following the Tour de France as we speak, rock bands, etc. I feel like somewhere along the line, we broke away from our immediate peers.

[AndrewsMother]

I do not post much, but this conversation is quite interesting.

I do not really like the term elite, but I know exactly what you mean. At the current time I am wokring in an environment that makes me question that state of the black community. My job is located in a surburban area that ir primarily African American. The families are low to middle income and I would say not very educated. That is the case for some, but not all. The children appear to be severly affeected by many circumstances, but it is hard to point the blame in any one direction.

I am not very sociable so I have yet to meet other A/A who are similar to myself and it is quite maddening. We have been in Houston for almost a year and what I see of the A/A community is not comforting. While do know many successful A/A in Houston, this city is so different from Atlanta where there are many areas where successful A/A live.

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Oh, not that at all. No, it's more like... the demographic here is decidedly upper middle class. At least. I remember a few years ago we discussed home ownership in the black community, for example, and I was the only person who was renting. Someone (Erika?) had brought it up because they'd encountered a news article which asserted that home ownership was a relatively recent thing for most black homeowners, and that it was still not terribly common. Most of the women posting here have college educations, something else which doesn't reflect the majority of black women in this country. Being married *at all* doesn't reflect the experience of a significant proportion of black mothers. In any case, all those things might come into play if we were to take a serious look at the issue of black women (and men) marrying non-black folks.

Ohhh ok, well now I feel silly. I'm not sure I remember that discussion it might have occurred during one of my periods of abandonment of MDC. We are probably middle class on the lower end depending on what describes middle class nowadays. Dh makes about $60,000 a year and yes we are married but we do not own a home yet either. Dh is finishing up his degree which will give us an increase in income sometimes next year. I never finished my degree but I did attend college at Tuskegee University before we were married. I think it also depends on your own family dynamics sometime people follow what they know or get stuck in a never ending cycle. My AA friends(not that I have many) are all married and also middle class families as were their own families. My would have been SIL came from a bad family back ground alcoholic mother not around father and now she has 5 kids of her own a husband in and out of jail and is typically low income as was her mother before her.

[eilonwy]

[QUOTE=barose;11777826]When older black folks find out that we are "living together" - they cringe. Even my family is pretty silent on the matter; they just don’t want to talk about it. His parents (who are in their '80s) are happy for us! They don’t care that we are not married. They just want grandchildren before they pass.

And my situation is somewhat different, because my mother is a white Jew. One of the first things to go when governments were persecuting Jews was the legality of their marriages, so it was not uncommon to have a couple that was married by a rabbi but did not have a legal marriage; THe children, then, would be legally required to have the mother's name (which is how you get names like "Malkovich," which means "of Malka;" Malka is a female name). As far as my mother was concerned, Mike and I were married when we moved in together, regardless of the law. I mean... I suppose that there are similarities, but the attitude is very different.

My older brother is the same way. He's been an in relationship for years with the same woman, but they are not married – no kids. But he is not really apart of the black community himself. Avid biker, following the Tour de France as we speak, rock bands, etc. I feel like somewhere along the line, we broke away from our immediate peers.

See... it would seem clear that he's not part of the majority of black folks in this country, and that his experience doesn't reflect the average... but the question is, does that invalidate his experience as a black man? (This is where my eyes start to spin around in my head... )

Originally Posted by piad

I do not really like the term elite, but I know exactly what you mean.

I just can't think of a better word for it...

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

THat has to be heartbreaking. I feel as though I'll have to create a culture in order to provide one for my children.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by piad

I truly feel as if I will have to completely assimilate into another culture to provide the right type of environment for my son.

I hope that I made sense to someone other than myself.

Are you saying that because the black dynamics of the town are not in line with your own? Or do you simply feel a greater pull towards one than the other? I mean I understand because you want the right kind of environment for your own child to thrive in and I think it's hard when we can't find that in our own community. I am not very social myself and my closest friends do not live in the same state as me so while we share the same views and dynamics our children are not able to grow from each other.

[barose]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

And my situation is somewhat different, because my mother is a white Jew. One of the first things to go when governments were persecuting Jews was the legality of their marriages, so it was not uncommon to have a couple that was married by a rabbi but did not have a legal marriage; THe children, then, would be legally required to have the mother's name (which is how you get names like "Malkovich," which means "of Malka;" Malka is a female name). As far as my mother was concerned, Mike and I were married when we moved in together, regardless of the law. I mean... I suppose that there are similarities, but the attitude is very different.

Well, NOW I have an explaination for it! DP and his parents are also white Jews. They dont care if they never see a wedding again.

In terms of my brother and his experiences, they vary over the years. His personal interests and hobbies changed and so did his friends. Growing up in the black community and attending black schools, he was always the "cool guy". Never had issues with anyone never got in trouble - just "cool" naturally. There was some jealously from some of his peers: he was/is handsome, 6'1" by the age of 13 (didnt grow after that ) and dressed really well – but other than that, we was always well liked.

He just kind of broke away from the community as his friends didnt share the same interests, lifestyle, and many of them going to jail or having kids at a young age.


Regardless of how many boomerangs he makes and competitions he's won, how much he bikes, and how many white friends he has (because of similar interests), etc he's is still a black man and will always be treated like one - at least in this country.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by jeca

Are you saying that because the black dynamics of the town are not in line with your own? Or do you simply feel a greater pull towards one than the other? I mean I understand because you want the right kind of environment for your own child to thrive in and I think it's hard when we can't find that in our own community. I am not very social myself and my closest friends do not live in the same state as me so while we share the same views and dynamics our children are not able to grow from each other.

I am saying that I have not found an enclave of young progressive blacks in the Houston area. I lived in Houston as a child and the only time that I saw other blacks was at church on Sunday. I thought that things would be different for my son. I am anti public schools, and during my tours of local private schools I have noticed that there is a lack of blacks students. When I asked the administration I was told that very few if any black parents applied. I took a series of courses at one school where my son is a prospective student and not once during the 5 months that I frequented the school did I see any other black prospective parents.

Yes I am looking at the best schools in the city, but that should not mean that there are few black students in attendance. The majority black areas of inner city Houston are not for us to live in and that saddens me. I want to live near other blacks, but only in a safe and asthetically pleasing section of town. The majority black suburban areas are not appealing either.

I lived my life straddling the fence I thought that things had changed, but I guess not.

I want to surround myself with other blacks who are educated (and having a college degree does not make one educated, have morals and values similar to mine and enjoy similar activities. I get the blank stare and the you must be crazy look from the few blacks that I have come across. I have even been told that I need to lower my standards. According to some I must have had a privleged upbringing, but I can assure I did not. My single parent school teacher mother struggled, but we lived a decent life.

I must leave work I will post more later.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by piad

I get the blank stare and the you must be crazy look from the few blacks that I have come across. I have even been told that I need to lower my standards. According to some I must have had a privleged upbringing, but I can assure I did not. My single parent school teacher mother struggled, but we lived a decent life.

Lowering your standards would be like settling and I don't think(and I know you don't think that either) we as parents period should do that when it comes to our children. as it stands right now I have no black friends wher we live, not a one. I hadtow but they moved and I just haven't found any like minded mamas since. DH says it's because I'm anti-social my sister says it's because I give off a "white" vibe whatever that means. I know what it means I've heard it all my life but it still seems silly to me.