Women of Color #12 - Page 10

[purplegirl]

texting from my phone so it will be short-- you should visit the vineyard. it really is the place where upper middke to extremely wealthy black folk been coming for years! it is incredible. i am certain shay and ericka can speak more on it. i grew up in the black upper mid class and have lots of thoughts about that status.. cant go into it right no but i will later upon my return.

Originally Posted by barose

Interesting - because I have never been in the company of upper middle class AA before. Maybe at the SF Symphony, or opera but it was usually an older person or couple.

Strange, now that I think about it. It might because of my location: all of the places that we vacationed here in California: La Jolla, Sea Ranch, Big Sur, Santa Barbabra, it was pretty hard to find another black person there. When we went to Sea Ranch a few weeks ago, I was tickled pink to see TWO black couples on two different occasions.

[Valid28]

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

[barose]

Originally Posted by Valid28

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

Welcome!

A degree is not the be all end all. It HELPS and it is useful especially if you’re going into a specialized field, but it’s not the end of the world. I didn’t finish mine and DP doesn’t have one either. That doesn’t keep us out of the middle class income bracket though. DP is self-made entrepreneur so that is very helpful because at age 50 without a degree, and haven’t worked for anyone else in 20 years, who would hire him )no matter how youthful he is. ) He went to school for a while, but wasn’t the college type and didn’t finish.

We do feel like outcasts among our degreed friends, but its just a temporary feeling – especially when at parties. I felt a little left out yesterday when meeting with cousins who are in law and medical school. It’s just not my path though.

You can always finish school now or later in life. I plan on finishing an undergrad degree at a certain point, but I’m in no rush to do it.

One thing about not having a degree is that you have to “make” yourself because depending on where you are, the job market can be pretty competitive. My motivation is all of the successful entrepreneurs out there do did not finish (or even start) college.

------------------

Thanks purplegirl! I will try to make it a point to visit next time we are on the east coast (going to NYC in the fall)

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by Valid28

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.



Shanese

Welcome. I so love to see WOC here at MDC. Girl, you are not a loser because you didn't finish your degree. I have a BA & M.Ed and truth is I made more money when I had no degree, I have still yet to make more in a year since I got these degrees than when I was a sales rep. So sometimes I don't feel the value of the degree, I enjoyed school and my education has allowed me to craft a living in a rather unorthodox way but its not all that.

Originally Posted by barose

Welcome!

A degree is not the be all end all. It HELPS and it is useful especially if you’re going into a specialized field, but it’s not the end of the world. I didn’t finish mine and DP doesn’t have one either. That doesn’t keep us out of the middle class income bracket though. DP is self-made entrepreneur so that is very helpful because at age 50 without a degree, and haven’t worked for anyone else in 20 years, who would hire him )no matter how youthful he is. ) He went to school for a while, but wasn’t the college type and didn’t finish.

We do feel like outcasts among our degreed friends, but its just a temporary feeling – especially when at parties. I felt a little left out yesterday when meeting with cousins who are in law and medical school. It’s just not my path though.

You can always finish school now or later in life. I plan on finishing an undergrad degree at a certain point, but I’m in no rush to do it.

One thing about not having a degree is that you have to “make” yourself because depending on where you are, the job market can be pretty competitive. My motivation is all of the successful entrepreneurs out there do did not finish (or even start) college.

------------------

Thanks purplegirl! I will try to make it a point to visit next time we are on the east coast (going to NYC in the fall)

Ditto to these points. By the way if any of you ladies ever end up in Maine, you must look me up.

[ishereal]

Originally Posted by barose

So much to talk about here!

So yesterday, we threw my grandmother a surprise birthday party. We got together with relatives who I haven’t seen in years or at all. We are a small family (40 at the MOST) but we are not very close. It was a nice small family reunion/b-day party.

Since most of my friends are not black, I don’t experience this very often, but yesterday I was bombarded with “good hair” comments. I guess I’m the only one besides my grandmother who has 3b/3c (don’t really know which – doesn’t matter). I mean it was a HUGE deal. Its 2008 and I was stunned that this is still an issue. Most of my family is college educated, half are entrepreneurs – there is a pretty wide range of lifestyles, but the “good hair” thing lives on even with the guys.

I don’t even know how to respond. I guess I was in shock. I said “thank you” because my hair IS good, but not any better than my mother who has 4b hair. Its good in the way that ALL black hair or all hair for that matter is good as long as its healthy.

Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

[ishereal]

CNN Black in America

Did anyone see it?

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :

[barose]

Originally Posted by ishereal

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

Ditto.



My father tells me when he was growing up, his aunt (who raised some of his siblings) used to treat his light-skinned sister waaay better than the other dark and nappy siblings. Pretty sad.


I hope my future children are not subjected to this on either end of the spectrum.

[shayinme]

Good hair.. ugh.... I only have a second but I so hate to even hear that term brought up, it irks me to say the least. : More later.

@Purplegirl, yes indeed I could go on about upper crust Black folk in Maine. A lot of the native Black Mainers are indeed of that ilk, I tend to have a interesting relationship with them. I write for a local publication, plus in my early days here when I was actively seeking us out, I used to attend things like First Friday..LOL. Talk about being a long way from the south side of Chicago. More later, family wants dinner. LOL

[Jannah6]

I don't think I've ever posted here before, so I'll introduce myself. I'm Jannah, SAHM of 5 DC with 1 on the way(total surprise).

ETA: I've ALWAYS hated the term good hair. As for college, I've been "working" on my degree since 1993, LOL.

[princesstutu]

I, too, dislike the term "good hair." I call ppl on it whenever the opportunity arises. I find hair texture interesting, but only b/c it gets me thinking about genetics and ethnic backgrounds.

"Black hair" encompasses all textures and lengths. I've taken to telling folks that oily hair isn't inherently better than dry hair. When I put it that way, they usually shut up.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by ishereal

Did anyone see it?

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :

Welcome and of course you do we are in no way upper middle class and I have been coming here for years.
I think we need to also remember that MDC is general is comprised of the "upper elite" as far as income. During the income polls majority of the poll answers were in a household income of $100,000.

I have received the good hair comments all my life. I admit though I don't wear it natural anymore. I have highlights and I love them. : My girls have 3A and 3B hair and it irks me every time someone makes the comment oh now I don't have to worry about this or that. Yeah cause curly hair needs no maintenance it's just comb and go.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by ajv

i find it so so interesting that everyone is so apologetic about being elite.

It's funny, I just said something about elitism in another forum. The reason we're apologetic, by and large, is that egalitarianism is seen as being intrinsically superior to elitism in US society. It's a huge problem, if you ask me. The reason I brought it up, though, was that... well, we were talking about black issues in America, and as members of an elite group, we're *going* to have a different (or several different) take on things.

Originally Posted by barose

Since most of my friends are not black, I don’t experience this very often, but yesterday I was bombarded with “good hair” comments. I guess I’m the only one besides my grandmother who has 3b/3c (don’t really know which – doesn’t matter). I mean it was a HUGE deal. Its 2008 and I was stunned that this is still an issue. Most of my family is college educated, half are entrepreneurs – there is a pretty wide range of lifestyles, but the “good hair” thing lives on even with the guys.
...
Does anyone deal with this? Does it bother you? How do you respond?

I'm not sure what 3B/3C means (it rings a vague bell... ) but I understand "good hair." : I think it's really sad and implies a level of self-hatred, but that it doesn't need to. "You have such good hair!" "All hair is good. I'm rather fond of mine, thanks." I say the exact same thing when someone tells me that I have "good babies."

That said... i love my hair. :

Originally Posted by ErikaDP

My only problem with the "elite"term is that it creates yet another barrier between folks.

I don't think so; I mean, the barriers exist, and I don't think that they're necessarily bad, in and of themselves. I have no problem putting myself into boxes, even if I have to create new ones; I'm different, and that's fine. Refusing to label something doesn't change the fact of it's existance, you know? I'd rather acknowledge it and move along.

Originally Posted by Valid28

Hi everyone, I'd like to join in here. I am a woman of color, married with one child. I often feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I went to college for two years but never did finish my degree. I have worked a regular boring job, so no career for me. But I love to mingle with people of all types. Most of my friends are professionals and I often feel like a bit of a loser because I didn't finish my degree. I don't feel like a member of the elite because of this. At the same time I fully own who I am as woc but hate that often I feel left out because my tastes and choices aren't always mainstream black America. I hope I made some sense. Anyway, I just wanted to join in the conversation.

I must say, I'm loving the way that this conversation is pulling the lurkers out.

Originally Posted by ishereal

The infamous "good hair" topic. I don't know where to begin first off I wear my hair natural and I am 4b also. I consider my hair good, but I know that "good" in most other black peoples mind can mean anything from, long, curly, silky and etc. This has been imprinted upon us from childhood, we were taught to envy the light skinned wavy haired girls and looked down on the dark-skinned nappy head girls. No one had to verbally say it (although they did were I grew up) but how we were treated spoke volumes. A lot of it has its roots in slavery (I know most people don't want to talk about it) and we still have a lot of healing to do.............

Then of course, there's the flip-side: While light-skinned, wavy/curly haired girls tend to be treated better by older black folks, there's a fair contingent of younger ones who'll treat you like crap for no other reason. It's entirely understandable, but it still hurts, especially when you're a child. These attitudes most assuredly play into the interracial marriage issue: I think that there's a lot of antagonism toward light-skinned black people, and as a result of that many light-skinned black folks may be looking for someone much darker than they to have children. Quite the backlash, really. And it's all so muddled and befuddled. On one hand, light-skinned people almost certainly have things easier in a predominantly white society, but on the other... if you deliberately choose to have lighter skinned children (like, you marry a white person) then you're choosing not to raise healthy, self-loving, proud black children. :

Originally Posted by ishereal

p.s. I hope I fit here because I am by no means "elite", I have zero income and no college thus far :

Elite can be defined in oh so many ways. You're online; That makes you somewhat elite in and of itself.

Originally Posted by jeca

Welcome and of course you do we are in no way upper middle class and I have been coming here for years.
I think we need to also remember that MDC is general is comprised of the "upper elite" as far as income. During the income polls majority of the poll answers were in a household income of $100,000.

Very true.

I have received the good hair comments all my life. I admit though I don't wear it natural anymore. I have highlights and I love them. : My girls have 3A and 3B hair and it irks me every time someone makes the comment oh now I don't have to worry about this or that. Yeah cause curly hair needs no maintenance it's just comb and go.

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all.

Or would anyone be willing to show pictures of their hair and to list their hair rating.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Mine is natural these days. So... anyone care to explain the numbers to me? Like I said, they're familiar but I can't remember what they mean at all.

http://www.curls.biz tells about different types of hair textures. I really like their products for my girls.

Here is the page on hair texture.
http://www.curls.biz/learn-about-cur...l#qhairtexture

[barose]

Originally Posted by piad

Or would anyone be willing to show pictures of their hair and to list their hair rating.

Its not down in these black & white pictures so it may be hard to tell:

Hair 1

Hair 2

And I have a small pic in my signature, but my hair was pretty dry...

[ajv]

me too, i dont know what 4a/4b/ etc is

i need some reference or definition too...tho are we perpetuating this foolishness by finding out what this means...we will see...

i have had to deal with the good hair comments all my life. when i found out i was pregnant with my daughter i promised myself i would NEVER EVER have hair longer than hers. this became quite the challenge b/c she was born BALD (lol!!!) i knew she would be bald because i had ZERO heartburn. i mean zero. i got heartburn once, after eating two jalepenos during the entire pregnancy. so i had my cousin cut my hair super super short right before i had her, now both of our hair is growing, but mine is growing faster so i am always running around desperate to get my hair cut...granted the child will be only one in a few weeks, but i am committed that she will never feel badly about her hair because of me. i have a younger sister who was always desperate to have long hair like mine, i felt bad about it, but didnt kno what to do (we are 9 years apart).

also, how do you do that little cut a quote and paste it thing...where you put someone else's quote in your post.

[ajv]

okay, i got it

okay, so i am a 3A and my daughter is going to be a 4B.

[eilonwy]

ops: Double post!

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by ajv

i have had to deal with the good hair comments all my life. when i found out i was pregnant with my daughter i promised myself i would NEVER EVER have hair longer than hers. this became quite the challenge b/c she was born BALD (lol!!!) i knew she would be bald because i had ZERO heartburn. i mean zero. i got heartburn once, after eating two jalepenos during the entire pregnancy. so i had my cousin cut my hair super super short right before i had her, now both of our hair is growing, but mine is growing faster so i am always running around desperate to get my hair cut...granted the child will be only one in a few weeks, but i am committed that she will never feel badly about her hair because of me. i have a younger sister who was always desperate to have long hair like mine, i felt bad about it, but didnt kno what to do (we are 9 years apart).

also, how do you do that little cut a quote and paste it thing...where you put someone else's quote in your post.

I"m curious-- why would you make such a promise? I mean, I kind of understand that you might not want to make your daughter feel badly if her hair wasn't as long as yours, but cutting it for her sake? Isn't that just drawing attention to the fact that the two of you have different hair and you feel like she's in some kind of minority, that you don't want her to feel alone? I'm not articulating well here... I think I need to come back to this later.

The heartburn myth drives me batty. I had tons of heartburn with all but one of my kids, and they were all born in various stages of baldness. My sister had no heartburn at all, and my oldest niece was born with like, two inches of soft, silky, jet-black hair.

In the bottom right corner of every post are three boxes; The one in the middle has quotation marks. Click on that box for every post you want to quote, and when you hit "reply" all of those posts will appear in your box. Or, you could just type [ quote ]cut & pasted stuff you want to quote [ / quote], without the spaces.

Thanks for the link Jeca. I have that book somewhere. I'm 3A, my kids are 1B, 2B, 2A and too young to tell.

[barose]

This has the meanings of the hair types
http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types
http://hair.lovetoknow.com/4a_4b_3c_Hair_Type

I only found it useful when I first went natural and had a hard time finding products for my hair ways of styling, combing, etc. Its also a good guide when I'm looking for someone to cut my hair (to describe over the phone to see if its worth going in for a consult) - though I havent cut it in ages.

Speaking of hair cutting, my family also have long hair fetishes . They were constantly pulling my hair that was back in a tie down my back to check the length. Three of my cousins have sister locks and going natural, but that doesn’t stop ‘em.