Women of Color #12 - Page 12

[ishereal]

Originally Posted by shayinme

I'm not really sure I agree with this, when I first went natural almost 9 years ago I felt the same way you do but the longer I am natural it really is just part of who I am as a person. Even my locs, I have been loced now 4 years and at first I had a lot of energy tied up in them but recently I realized its just hair.

I think as Black women we need to be careful about grouping folks by hair especially as being natural has become almost trendy, one only has to go to certain large hair boards and I have seen folks wanting locs without even being natural. For them locs is not deep, its not spiritual, its just hair. That said, I have known some deep sistas, my former advisor in college who opened my eyes in so many ways yet she was relaxed. There are some seriously deep sistas whp forever whatever reasons choose to relax. I agree its not the healthiest or the most natural thing but at this stage in my naptural journey I let folks be.

Shay

Yes I know that wearing your hair natural does not = consciousness, trust me I have had a couple of rude awakenings. But I see natural hair as a step towards embracing who you are.... but that's just me

[jeca]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I am not my hair.

I love her song brown skinned, love it love it!
I am NOT my hair. I have worn my hair several ways over the years but because of the "texture" it may not have been easily identifiable as "natural". So many people think natural they think kinky, wild, free that is the perceived look. Well I do not have "kinky" hair natural or not. If you were to see me on the street would my silken spirals still be perceived as natural or would you assume I'm a sister who sat under the dryer for ever. That is why I'm not comfortable with the hair as a statement because it's easy to misidentify. I don't think I'm making sense I feel very tired today.

OT. WHat do think of the trend that we as people tend to buy certain clothes. My mother for instance makes comments to me all the time on how I need to be DS(10)cool clothes and cool shoes. By cool she means things like FuBu or Jordan's which my son has never expressed an interest in and I have no desire to spend $80 on one pair of shoes when a pair of $30 sketchers is what he likes and works just fine. We live in a "white" area and she feels that he is being pulled into their style. I don't see why FUBU and Jordan's need to be identified as "our style" when it's not affordable for a lot black people. I'm rambling aren't I? It just makes me mad when she says things like this. I have no problem buying those items on sale, but I won't spend an entire school clothing budget on two outfits and one pair of shoes. : So I took DS to the store and let him pick out the things he wanted it consisted mainly of t-shirts with different designs on them a few non name style polo shirts. If that is what he wants to wear I'm happy and my wallet is happy. My would have been SIL who is on various types of govt. assistance buys each of her oldest three kids Jordan's for school and then has to borrow gas money of can't get them the extra things like new socks and underwear. My niece rocks rocawear to school but can't take the ballet lessons she wants. What do you think do you feel we are obligated to buy more black owned company clothing or is that simply buying into yet another stereotype?

[eilonwy]

Clothing. To preface this, my sisters' biggest problem with the way that I buy clothing is that I "allow" BeanBean to wear pink in public. My youngest sister (Chibi's mom) actually has decent taste in clothing; The girls wear clothing that fits well, and which is appropriate for their ages. Yeah, occasionally my sister will buy fancy Nikes or Baby Phat outfits for them... but she works three jobs, and it's her perogative. As far as making the girls "cool," I think she's probably given up hope with the older two. They're too independant, both of them. She once bought Bean a pair of G-Unit jeans... and she bought him a Ralph Lauren dress shirt (it was pink ) which he adores.

She doesn't spend ridiculous amounts of money, though... she gets these things at places like TJ Maxx. And like I said, I figure it's her perogative. She's not imposing her style on anyone else, really. When Chibi was little she (15!) bought some absolutely ridiculous things. Mom couldn't talk her into taking them back. I couldn't either, but I finally said, "Look, she'll have at least 30 years when that's appropriate, but she's only got two when she'll be at her most adorable in babydoll dresses and ruffle-butt bloomers," and the baby hoochie styles went back to the store.

Does she need to buy "black" clothing? I think that given the choice between two outfits of similar price and similar appropriateness, she'd go with the one by the black designer. No, I know she would. I probably would, too. Bean's fairly easy to dress, but if I could find inexpensive Apple Bottoms for BooBah I'd be all over them (baby got back ). "Ghetto gap" is unattractive, regardless of the age of the person wearing the jeans.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

hat given the choice between two outfits of similar price and similar appropriateness, she'd go with the one by the black designer. No, I know she would. I probably would, too.l

That I could understand. If something is on sale at a great price of course I'd buy it but to pay $55 for a shirt just because it's suppose to be "For US By Us" just isn't it for me. I think it's out of a lot of peoples reach but they try to buy it anyway because that's the way it's suppose to be.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by jeca

OT. WHat do think of the trend that we as people tend to buy certain clothes. What do you think do you feel we are obligated to buy more black owned company clothing or is that simply buying into yet another stereotype?

I often have the same thoughts. I for one do not like clothing by most black owned companies simply because I am not fond of the urban look. I purchase mostly conservative clothing and I have yet to find styles deigned by a black company that just don't look "hood" or over the top urban trendy.

I don't need embellishments or wording just plain simple Ann Taylor or Anthropologie type clothing. I love to spend my money within my race so why can't a black designer make clothing of a conservative style?

As for my son, I abhor Jordans and any clothing that looks urban athletic.

[barose]

I’m a clothing girl, but never been into the urban look myself. Marithe Francois Girbaud is as about as “urban” as it gets . I prefer a more “street style” to and dressy approach and it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by barose

it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

This has been the cause of various discussions in my family as I don't wear urban wear either and neither does my children. My sister thinks it's like denying a piece of our culture.
Dh and I both have the same thought. We were in a store a few weeks ago and he was looking for something for his birthday. He gets more frustrated by the minute. Finally he turns to me and asks why is it that the only clothing in his size(about a 38-40) is all hip hopped out and graffitied up not to mention $80 for a pair of shorts as if thats the only clothing that "we" wear? He goes over to the "white style" section and points out that over here all they have is sizes 32-36's and their shorts are $30 for a pair. He left frustrated mumbling on how maybe he would like a damn pair of khaki's or something. They need to expand their style instead of trying to group everyone into that mold. M

[Barbamama]

Originally Posted by barose

and it would be nice if more black designers step out of the hip-hop box and realize that we have a variety of tastes in clothing and design.

You know, when I thought about it, I couldn't come up with a single living black designer who didn't have his/her roots in the music industry. Patrick Kelly and Willi Smith, both long dead, are the only two who I'd ever heard of. (Until a quick Google revealed Tracy Reese, a sister who's "made it" according to my quick read.)

That's no accident. Cross-marketing between music and the urban/hip-hop clothing makes more money for an already popular artist, his/her record label and the company backing the clothing line; so long as the clothing comports with the genre/image of the music everybody's happy.

As for why blacks not affiliated with the music industry aren't more successful in fashion, one hypothesis off the top of my gourd: lack of access to capital. Biases about what appeals to whom come into play, and if those handing out the $$ can't conceive of a black designer's creations as having broad appeal, then those designers are not going to get the backing they need to get off the ground. I know squat about financing in the fashion industry, so grain of salt recommended.

ETA: A little rant-y today, I am. Sorry. The thought that urban style and black peoples' style are co-terminus ticks me off a bit.

[Draupadi]

Can I jump in?

HI!
I was hoping this Tribe would be resurrected.
I'm Williamsmama, or Sheila if you prefer. I'm a 37 mom from New York City, 1/2 African American and 1/2 Korean, and currently a SAHM. I'll be going back to work in the Fall (I'm a teacher).
I'm glad to see you ladies here!
Sometimes I need some sistas to talk to...
Anyway...hair.
I stopped relaxing my hair back in the 90's. I went through a good 10 years or so of having strong, natural hair, but since I had my son, it's just been a mess.
It's sad that our hair is so political. Being 1/2 Asian, I've had friends' mothers say things like "Oh, you're lucky that you were born with a little help". When I stopped relaxing, those comments stopped.
My brother has locs down past his butt and I sometimes wished I had the patience to grow locs too. My DH prefers my hair natural and dislikes straightened hair. He generally believes black women look better with natural hair.
Anyway...that's my .02. Just really wanted to say hi!

[Draupadi]

Originally Posted by piad

I too have not had a friend since high school and neither she nor I had anything in common. We still communicate with one another today, but she and I are not close. Evenin high school I never told her my true feelings. Even today she will tell me that I am the smartest person that I know and that past mistakes do not matter, but we can't just sit down and reveal our inner self because she would not understand. My family did not approve of our relationship then and I know that they would not now. My family has a high standard of conduct that I sometimes feel as if I can't live up to.

As I type I can maybe realize why a black man with similar upbrining might have a hard time finding a black wife if I can't even find the right black friend. Interracial marriage is quite common in my family and I have never gievn it a thought until right now.

.

This is so interesting, Piad.
I consider myself lucky as I grew up in very diverse and somewhat lower to mid-middle class neighborhoods for most of my life.
Growing up, my friends were always such a mix, but my closest friends in H.S. (where I went to a specialized school) and now are mostly black.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Barbamama

You know, when I thought about it, I couldn't come up with a single living black designer who didn't have his/her roots in the music industry.

Oh, that's not true. There are sports stars with clothing lines, too.

I hear you, though. I really wish there were more things which were... well, older. I don't have a problem with the urban look, but I'm 30 years old and I have no desire to look like a teenager. I'd love to see more clothing designed to fit figures like mine-- the once-it-was-an-hourglass, big round booty and boobs to balance the effect figure. I mean, I've met exactly two white people who had figures like mine in my entire life, but *dozens* of black ones. I'd love to be able to buy a nice skirt that was the same length over my behind that it is in the front. :

I'm kind of curious about the Worthington line at JC Penney's; THeir clothing fits me relatively well. I think there's either a black designer or they've got a black size model for their petites, because things are quite round. Too bad most of it looks entirely too old.

Welcome, Sheila! I had no idea there was a black mama/white baby smilie! Your little man is *ADORABLE*!! He's almost as cute as mine.

[Draupadi]

Thanks, Eilonwy (sp?)!
Actually, I remember looking at your pictures a few days ago thinking my son is going to look the way your oldest son looks in a few years!

I found that smilie recently and started to use it. I didn't think the afro one quite fit me as well as this one.
My boy's got a nice tan going on so he looks more like me. I think before he got it, folks in my neighborhood were probably thinking I was his nanny.

[princesstutu]

re: clothing

I buy what's cute and cheap. Period. I buy thrift, I buy new. But, I won't buy expensive, unless it's a coat. FUBU isn't even owned by black ppl, anymore, so I'm not sure why that's an issue. I refuse to pay to walk around advertising for folks, as much as I can help it. Walking around with company names written on your clothes is just tacky to me and I won't participate or allow my kids to participate when they're with me.

I think Sean John is a pretty neutral line. Not too hip-hop/urban, whatever. Walks that fine line. It's expensive, tho. You know, you gotta help Puffy keep up his lifestyle.

For women, I guess it's harder, but I honestly don't look for black designers. I don't have an interest in designers at all.

[jeca]

I didn't know FUBU wasn't owned by black people anymore. I don't read up much on things like that so I'm always out of the loop. my best clothes have come from the thrift store.

[Draupadi]

Originally Posted by princesstutu

I refuse to pay to walk around advertising for folks, as much as I can help it. Walking around with company names written on your clothes is just tacky to me and I won't participate or allow my kids to participate when they're with me.

---
For women, I guess it's harder, but I honestly don't look for black designers. I don't have an interest in designers at all.

: to all of that. I find most of that stuff ugly anyway. I tend to not buy anything with any writing. I buy mostly from discount stores or The Gap.

[AndrewsMother]

[QUOTE=princesstutu;11832876]re: clothing

I think Sean John is a pretty neutral line. Not too hip-hop/urban, whatever. Walks that fine line. It's expensive, tho. You know, you gotta help Puffy keep up his lifestyle.
QUOTE]

And/or his child support!

Originally Posted by WilliamsMama

: to all of that. I find most of that stuff ugly anyway. I tend to not buy anything with any writing. I buy mostly from discount stores or The Gap.

Ugly is being nice.

[ajv]

clothes

we buy mostly from thrift stores, avoid writing/logos, ebay...we did like to buy the george foreman line at the big and tall men's store for my husband, but it isnt there anymore. sorry to hear about fubu, i was always happy to buy something from goodwill with their logo.

[oyinmama]

uhm, ok so how come i wander away from MDC for a few weeks and this thread gets jumpstarted in a major exciting way!??

hi beautiful mamas - i'm still catching up somewhere on page 8 but in some weird time-warpy way i feel the compulsion to post RIGHT!!! NOW!!! even though i'm not exactly chiming into a current conversation - just to say hi i'm here and i'm excited to be reading y'all.

[xochimama]

hola, mamas

interesting to read the hair & clothing discussions-- for Latinos I think the same toxic brew exists but not around those topics, it's all about language and speech mannerisms. So to be a "real Latino" you have to either speak Spanish or speak with certain Spanglish mannerisms. Or be "brown enough" for people to know that you are Latino.

And then, of course, there are race divides for Latinos: some of us have roots in the African diaspora (esp. Caribbean Latinos) but zero identification with AA history & culture. Some of us have very strong Mexican identification. Some have very strong Central Am identification, &c., and the intermixing gets even more heady... Latin Am is full of mixed races... throw class divide in the mix (and yes, "white" Latinos, historically, have fared better than "morenos") and ugh... it's a lot to take in.

Here's another thing that we are fighting over () : Latino versus Hispanic vs. Chicano vs. [insert country-specific]-American ie Mexican-American, Cuban-American, etc...

how is is that even among ourselves we manage to find things to pick apart...?

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by xochimama

hola, mamas

interesting to read the hair & clothing discussions-- for Latinos I think the same toxic brew exists but not around those topics, it's all about language and speech mannerisms. So to be a "real Latino" you have to either speak Spanish or speak with certain Spanglish mannerisms. Or be "brown enough" for people to know that you are Latino.

And then, of course, there are race divides for Latinos: some of us have roots in the African diaspora (esp. Caribbean Latinos) but zero identification with AA history & culture. Some of us have very strong Mexican identification. Some have very strong Central Am identification, &c., and the intermixing gets even more heady... Latin Am is full of mixed races... throw class divide in the mix (and yes, "white" Latinos, historically, have fared better than "morenos") and ugh... it's a lot to take in.

Here's another thing that we are fighting over () : Latino versus Hispanic vs. Chicano vs. [insert country-specific]-American ie Mexican-American, Cuban-American, etc...

how is is that even among ourselves we manage to find things to pick apart...?

Good points about Latinos, I used to live in Chicago and it was no joke at how fast folks would get mad if you called a Mexican a PR or vice-versa. Then like you said for Latinos who do have roots in the African diaspora yet don't connect with AA culture.. we do create a lot of tensions for ourselves as times.

Shay