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Originally Posted by Smokering  My point is, if you're aiming to be intellectually honest with your child and produce (not at the age of 5 1/2, but evenutally) a critical thinker, you need to honestly give her the different points of view. Saying 'Exactly' is implying, especially to a young mind, that her question is unanswerable. Silly Christians, didn't they think of that? And that's fine, if you want to raise a good little atheist--but if you want to raise a thinker, you need to do better.
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No that wasn't the intent at all. That is a misinterpretation. In fact the reason I said "exactly" is simply because often times people who are adament about beliefs simply believe for no other reason than because they were told so by their church, their guru whatever their spiritual mentor may be. And I was applauding her critical thinking. I also think it's ok to simply NOT have an answer to a question sometimes. We do not always have an answer. I didn't tell her that evolution was right, simply that it was not an easy answer.
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| However, I will in no way do this by shortchanging the opposing viewpoints. If my child was to say something dense like 'Christianity must be right because everybody I know believes it', I wouldn't say 'Exactly'--I'd explain (in an age-appropriate way, of course) that this was a logical fallacy. |
That to me bears no relation to the question she posed and the answer of "exactly". In the question above, you would be telling her to follow the status quo, not think for herself etc,... to simply do as others do simply to fit in.....
Also....Perhaps you can explain to me why agreeing that there's no answer to who created GOD is a logical fallacy, because I don't understand how telling a 5 year old or a 50 year old that GOD has always existed or that nobody created him is a logical and well educated answer to the question, we are then asking her to simply "believe" for no other reason that than she should believe??? How is that logical or well though out?. (I"m not being facecious just asking honestly
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| If you're going to make even a pretense of neutrality and intellectual honesty, you can't just stop the train of thought where you'd prefer it to end. If she has a philosophical problem with the idea of an uncreated God, did you ask her to define that problem? Or point out that uncreated matter, the problem atheists deal with, is actually a far greater philosophical problem? |
What would be the basis behind Atheists believing that matter is "uncreated"? Simply because it is not created by GOD doesn't mean it is "uncreated"?
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{I was fortunate enough to be raised by religious parents who didn't tolerate sloppy thinking--whenever I got clannish as a youngster and said 'Mummy, do we believe in paedobaptism/perseverance of the saints/the Trinity?' Mum would give me an exasperated look and say ''We' don't believe anything, what do you think?' And then we'd discuss it, and if she was demonstrating logical fallacies I'd challenge her, and if I was demonstrating logical fallacies she'd challenge me. Nowadays our theology largely coincides, but we have our differences--and the most important lesson I learned was not to get away with believing something just because 'that's what 'we' believe'.
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That is great, you are fortunate to have parents who really made you think, in my life thus far I have only met one Christian who even came close to questioning anything with regards to her faith, her beliefs and her indoctrinations.
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Originally Posted by annettemarie Let's tread lightly, mamas. We don't allow religious bigotry of any kind--against atheists or against Christians or against anyone--here on MDC.
ETA: To clarify, the conversation has been pretty respectful thus far. I'd love to see the thread continue along this vein.  |
I don't feel like there has been any disrespect on this thread at all. Simply a debate, how can we learn if we don't discuss topics that we are passionate about? I think this is great. If we always brush our differences under the carpet then we truly teach intolerance of others simply by saying "I don't understand, or "get" THOSE people".
So often when we start to discuss those so called "hot topics" we get cut off at the knees, by being told we need to be polically correct, we can't rock the boat, but unfortunately this just makes our differences more pronounced. hopefully we can continue to discuss this in a respectful manner! Maybe we need a new thread though as it looks like we highjacked this one. I'm sorry to the OP. It wasn't the intent at all.
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Originally Posted by Smokering The point I was making in the part of my post you quoted was simply that 'Who created God?' is hardly a devastating philosophical blow to theism. If someone were to embrace atheism simply because he or she asked that question and received no answer, he or she would not be arriving at atheism through logical thought. I'm not saying that's what has happened in the anecdote mentioned, though.
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No and it wasn't meant to be at all. Simply that rather than accepting an answer at face value, from an adult was not reason enough to believe something, and that further thought and questioning was needed. If someone were to embrace any belief or philosophy based on the answer or lack thereof to one question, I would have to say that this person was seriously misinformed and lacking any logic whatsoever.
For me the most important thing is that my child learn to think for herself and not believe every bit of nonsense or logic that comes from an adult at face value. That she question everything and like you stated do her own research and come to her own conclusions on every thing from religion to politics to art, and health, and not be swayed by the status quo, the media, the "heads of state", the doctors, or the religious leaders of the time.
. Her friend is very bossy so I will have to keep an ear out to see if she tries to convert DD. The whole thing really surprised me since her parents know where we stand and the friends dad got the bible to read to DD.
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