What about the today show this morning - vit. D - Page 2

[wryknowlicious]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

This is really odd. The NHS is having a push on Vitamin D, especially in darker skinned women and babies, because in most of the UK you're too far north to get enough Vitamin D from the sun in winter. The newspaper article I read specifically said that breastfeeding mothers should take a Vitamin D supplement to ensure their babies got enough.

Vitamin D is a real problem--the NHS is seeing more cases of rickets these days. And some BF babies might require supplementing, but it's not the rule.

thats in the UK tho, that whole country is a lot saner IRT breastfeeding and maternity.
Here in the states the complete level of ignorance running thru our society from top to bottom is .. unfathomable.

I had a Ped tell me to switch my 2 week old baby to formula becasue she had lost 4 oz in the 4 days after birth.
yes. really.

[sdm1024]

I had a Ped tell me to switch my 2 week old baby to formula becasue she had lost 4 oz in the 4 days after birth.
yes. really.

Wow....the sad thing is that it doesn't surprise me that there are ped's who are that ignorant.

[~Stephanie~]

Yes, my old ped was pushing vitamin D supplements on my breastfed baby as well. When I declined, she came back with, "Well I guess you must want your baby to get rickets!" Well, yes, that was EXACTLY my plan.

We found a new ped.

[pithydithy]

I'm going to go against the grain here. We actually brought up supplementation with our pediatrician. I believe firmly in the benefits of breastfeeding. But I also read the New England Journal of Medicine summary on Vitamin D (here's a publicly available copy) and found it to be convincing. Even among healthy women taking prenatal vitamins, drinking fortified milk, and eating fish, as many as ¾ of them may be Vitamin D deficient. Human breastmilk does not contain large quantities of Vitamin D and, while it is possible for mothers to supplement and transfer Vitamin D to their babies, in the study mentioned mothers had to increase intake to 20 times the current RDA to transfer enough. Maybe y'all are getting that much Vitamin D, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not. Evidence (some stronger than others) suggests that Vitamin D deficiency is associated with a long list of nasty stuff from rickets to cancer to schizophrenia.

I'm uncomfortable with what I see has a tendency of automatic backlash against any recommendation of the mainstream medical community. Often I disagree with standard medical advice or practice, but I'd rather look at the evidence than just conclude that mother nature absolutely and always is perfect. (That's not really how evolution works; evolution often produces "good enough.")

This is probably going to get me flamed. I don't mean to criticize the decisions of other mothers. But I did want to present a voice of dissent in this particular case. Now, off to breastfeed my babe...who also had a drop of emulsified Vitamin D in sesame oil this morning.

[Ammaarah]

Meredith, I agree with you. I think it's important to really look at this issue without automatically just saying, "If breastmilk is a perfect food, it doesn't need anything." I think we forget that we're not really designed to get much vitamin D from breastmilk. We really are meant to get it from the sun, and most of us in northern areas do not eat the vitamin D rich diets our ancestors probably did. If we're not getting enough sun, supplementating a baby with D is not necessarily a bad thing. Even if we do get enough sun, some of us will still have low vitamin D. Mine was very low not long after I spent a month in South Asia, getting a lot of direct tropical sun.

I do think the Today Show expert could have explained this all in a way that didn't make it sound like breastmilk was deficient and formula was vitamin-packed, though.

Mercola has an interesting article about vitamin D, titled Vitamin D is Not a Vitamin But a Steroid Hormone Precursor, that I think is worth a read whether you supplement or not.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by pithydithy

I'm going to go against the grain here. We actually brought up supplementation with our pediatrician. I believe firmly in the benefits of breastfeeding. But I also read the New England Journal of Medicine summary on Vitamin D (here's a publicly available copy) and found it to be convincing. Even among healthy women taking prenatal vitamins, drinking fortified milk, and eating fish, as many as ¾ of them may be Vitamin D deficient. Human breastmilk does not contain large quantities of Vitamin D and, while it is possible for mothers to supplement and transfer Vitamin D to their babies, in the study mentioned mothers had to increase intake to 20 times the current RDA to transfer enough. Maybe y'all are getting that much Vitamin D, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not. Evidence (some stronger than others) suggests that Vitamin D deficiency is associated with a long list of nasty stuff from rickets to cancer to schizophrenia.

I'm a big supporter of vitamin D too. I know I don't get enough through sun exposure or diet, so I take a suppliment.

I think that formula companies are going to use the possibililty low levels of vit D in breastmilk of Northern mothers to undermine breastfeeding yet again. The thing is, breastmilk is complete nutrition if the mother is nutritionally complete. If she has good vit D levels then the baby will too if they both get enough sunlight during the times of the year when the sun makes vitamin D. Some mothers may not be able to have high enough vit D levels even with supplimentaion and good sun exposure, and so then the baby would need supplimentation too.

Currently the vit D recommendations in Canada have been moved to 1000 IU a day. Low vit D mothers in one of the studies had to suppliment 2000-4000 IU/day to increase vit D levels in the baby through breastmilk.

I'd like to see the breastfeeding community and the medical community come together on this and educate health care providers and mothers about vitamin D and how it is possible to increase maternal vit D levels to increase transfer through breastmilk. And info about safe sun exposure during the 'vit D making' times of year. And info about vit D rich complimentary foods when baby starts to eat solids.

And how about some more research into vit D levels in breastfed babies and supplimentation of baby or mother or both! We don't even know how they compare to formula fed babies, do we? They may be low in vit D. Maybe breastmilk vit D is more bioavailable, like breastmilk iron.

The current recommendations for supplimentation of all breastfed babies with vit D drops may be easier, but I worry in the long run that it is undermining breastfeeding.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

How frustrating! Did the endo give you any info about increasing the vit D in your diet or your sun exposure? Any help or support at all with breastfeeding? There has been an interesting trial that showed that supplimenting the mother increases the vit D in breastmilk - your endo should be aware of that.


I just hate that breastmilk is being compared to formula for vit D, and being 'proclaimed' to be lacking. We need to get the word out to moms that breastmilk has enough vit D if they have enough vit D - and teach how they can get tested for Vit D levels and then increase their vit D levels if needed.

I have been taking supplemental D for years, and Dillan is still deficient. We are now giving her a liquid supplement of 8000 IUs daily, and we go back for a blood test in a couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by homewithtwinsmama

See, I have always made a point to have my babies in full sun for 10-15 minutes BEFORE I applied sunscreen--all blond and blue like daddy. And we eat a lot of fish and Vit D foods. Your daughter's endo is a fool. You child can be deficient for many reasons that have nothing to do with breastmilk. Its like the dentists who always blame breastmilk for dental caries...:

We have a HUGE skin/ breast/ colon cancer history on both my and my husband's side of the family, so we are vigilant about avoiding the sun. And she didn't come right out and tell me my breastmilk was to blame, but she made me feel that way. Dillan is still nursing a lot, so we'll see what the blood tests show.

Originally Posted by pithydithy

I'm going to go against the grain here. We actually brought up supplementation with our pediatrician. I believe firmly in the benefits of breastfeeding. But I also read the New England Journal of Medicine summary on Vitamin D (here's a publicly available copy) and found it to be convincing. Even among healthy women taking prenatal vitamins, drinking fortified milk, and eating fish, as many as ¾ of them may be Vitamin D deficient. Human breastmilk does not contain large quantities of Vitamin D and, while it is possible for mothers to supplement and transfer Vitamin D to their babies, in the study mentioned mothers had to increase intake to 20 times the current RDA to transfer enough. Maybe y'all are getting that much Vitamin D, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not. Evidence (some stronger than others) suggests that Vitamin D deficiency is associated with a long list of nasty stuff from rickets to cancer to schizophrenia.

I'm uncomfortable with what I see has a tendency of automatic backlash against any recommendation of the mainstream medical community. Often I disagree with standard medical advice or practice, but I'd rather look at the evidence than just conclude that mother nature absolutely and always is perfect. (That's not really how evolution works; evolution often produces "good enough.")

This is probably going to get me flamed. I don't mean to criticize the decisions of other mothers. But I did want to present a voice of dissent in this particular case. Now, off to breastfeed my babe...who also had a drop of emulsified Vitamin D in sesame oil this morning.

Yes. And getting an overdose of D can cause a host of health problems in the mother.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

I have been taking supplemental D for years, and Dillan is still deficient. We are now giving her a liquid supplement of 8000 IUs daily, and we go back for a blood test in a couple of weeks.

I hope that her blood test shows that the supplementation has increased her levels.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

I hope that her blood test shows that the supplementation has increased her levels.

Thank you. I will post an update after I get her results.

[MettaSutta]

Originally Posted by pithydithy

...who also had a drop of emulsified Vitamin D in sesame oil this morning.

Could you post what brand of Vitamin D you are using and how you dispense it? Is it dropped right in the mouth or does it have to be given in water?

Thanks!

[elanorh]

I think that the 'solution' of vitamin supplementation instead of sun exposure and dietary changes to increase consumption of 'Vitamin' D is easy but ignores a lot of issues - some already mentioned (i.e., virgin gut - and the fact that sunlight exposure has been shown to be the most effective way for the body to make and store vitamin D).

Here's another wrinkle to their proposal: What about infants/children with food allergies? Fish oil supplements are not recommended for people with allergies to fish; and if an infant/child has an allergy, Peds/allergists will recommend no exposure to fish/shellfish 'til the child reaches 3; no eggs 'til child reaches 2, etc. So the supplements would not be recommended for my kids, living in a northern latitude. What, take in a 'Vitamin' that can contain fish proteins and cause them to develop a fish allergy (one of the allergies kids are unlikely to outgrow) to prevent rickets (and adding them to my diet would accomplish the same thing) .... When I could use the sun????

We took walks daily with Ina to ensure she got enough sun exposure - summer and winter, she was out with face/hands uncovered for at least 30 minutes most days. So apparently during the 'height' of the winter months, she wasn't getting enough UV rays to actually manufacture Vitamin D. I'd imagine that her exposure on the other days of the year made up the difference. As a bonus, I too was getting sun exposure (and therefore minimally increasing my own Vitamin D in my breastmilk).

Ina's skin is olive-toned and SJ is more of a porcelain dolly - so we have been more careful about how long she is out in the sun. But during the summer, having child out in the sun for fifteen minutes (or half an hour in the shade) is probably unlikely to cause any skin damage, but still gets lots of Vitamin D creation time.

ETA:

After reading the information, during my next pregnancy I will probably take a Vitamin D supplement at least through the first 8 months of pregnancy to ensure that I/babe have high levels of Vitamin D to start the process ... I just think given our circumstances, the supplements with an infant/child would be far more risky than simple sun exposure (especially knowing that our bodies "bank" that Vitamin D for use when we don't have enough sunlight to continue manufacture).

[pithydithy]

Originally Posted by MettaSutta

Could you post what brand of Vitamin D you are using and how you dispense it? Is it dropped right in the mouth or does it have to be given in water?

Thanks!

Sure. It's called Bio D-Mulsion and you just put a drop into the mouth. My baby seriously loves it (even though he's otherwise a very finicky eater and not very excited about solids). He gets all excited and sticks his tongue out when he sees the bottle come out. Here's a link. To be honest, I didn't put nearly as much thought into the brand of Vitamin D I decided to use as I did into supplementing in the first place. So there may be something "better" out there. The pediatrician said she could prescribe me some, or I could go with this, which was available at a vitamin and herb shop, if I wanted to avoid unnecessary chemicals. She felt that either was just as good and this might even be a little more readily absorbed.

As for sunlight, at this time of year in New England, it's hard for us to come by. But even during summer I worry about skin cancer issues. But I have been reminding myself that a little sun can have its benefits too.

[wenleigh19]

This has just come up as an issue in our household recently. I have been having some increasing joint pain for the last few months. Went to my GP and she suspected RA. She did some blood tests (which came up negative) and sent me to a rheumatologist. He did x-rays (which also came up negative) and then did some more comprehensive bloodwork. Turns out no RA (YAY!), but I was Vit D deficient. (HUH?!?) I didn't even KNOW about it up to that point. He said he normally recommended sunlight and retest in 3 months, but since I was BFing, he also told me to call my ped to ask them what their recommendations were. I called them and took him in to test ds. Turns out he was deficient as well, (although not as severe)and they also recommended sunlight and retest later. They also said this was pretty common. Both doctors said a supplement may be needed at some point, but didn't seem to think it was necessary right now.

My questions:

Are there any dangers or adverse reactions to taking Vit D as a supplement if it is recommended it at some point?

What are some Vit D rich foods that we can be eating to increase this?

At what point does rickets become a concern? Is this something that occurs after being deficient for a long time? My ped didn't convey any sense of urgency, just as something to stay on top of and monitor periodically.

[beru]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

And how about some more research into vit D levels in breastfed babies and supplimentation of baby or mother or both! We don't even know how they compare to formula fed babies, do we? They may be low in vit D. Maybe breastmilk vit D is more bioavailable, like breastmilk iron.

I was enrolled in this research at the University of Iowa. It only compares supplementing the exclusively breastfed baby with formula fed babies. They don't have maternal supplementation as part of the study. The breastfed babies are divided into different groups and get different levels of vitamin D supplementation and the formula fed babies obviously get their vitamin D supplementation from formula. The amount of formula those babies get is tracked in order to quantify the vitamin D they get. All mothers carefully track the amount of sunlight exposure the babies get.I am very curious to see how this turns out.

I had to drop out because my baby will be getting 3 bottles of formula per week when she goes to daycare so the vitamin D just in those bottles would skew the controls of the study.

On another note, this vitamin D subject keeps coming up. Maybe we should have a sticky for it.

This is a great discussion on the vitamin D supplementation issue with lots of references:
http://global-breastfeeding.org/ted/...d-supplements/

And here is mothering's article on "sunlight deficiency":
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...eficiency.html