Children being exposed to violence?

[abac]

I think we all hear pretty frequently, (at least I do,) that exposing children to violence is a no no, can cause them to become desensitized to violence, etc.

I'm wondering if there are parents here who have NOT limited their children's exposure to violence, and if they have noticed any effect on their children, positive or negative? I'm beginning to question whether there really is a good reason to limit ds's exposure to violence. So often, when we hear things repeatedly, we accept them without much real thought.

I was recently at someone's house where there was a 3 year old girl watching the movie Blood Diamond, (I think that's the title.) There was a pretty violent scene where a bus full of people was showered with machine gun fire. This little girl seemed completely unphased by it. And I think back to when I was a child, and we watched plenty of violent television, listened to the news, etc. It didn't bother me, or my sister as far as I know.

Are we doing our children a favor by limiting their exposure to violence? Or maybe not?

I'm speaking about the violence that children would encounter on TV, in movies, video games, news, etc.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by abac

I was recently at someone's house where there was a 3 year old girl watching the movie Blood Diamond, (I think that's the title.) There was a pretty violent scene where a bus full of people was showered with machine gun fire. This little girl seemed completely unphased by it. And I think back to when I was a child, and we watched plenty of violent television, listened to the news, etc. It didn't bother me, or my sister as far as I know.

Desensitization is the concern. A 3 YO not phased by Blood Diamond is worrisome for a host of reasons. My child would be terrified of such a scene and rightly so. It's horrific, and what was going on in that movie is something that should offend our sensibilities. That gets away some from the issue of violence in general, but the topic of the movie is so serious that a child seeing it and not reacting would concern me.

Yes, we limit violence. I try to eliminate it altogether. I didn't watch violent TV (didn't want much at all, really) growing up, so I don't have the "I watched it and grew up normal" belief. DH did watch it, and my MIL read very graphic novels to the kids when they were small. He thinks it was wrong and remembers many nights lying in bed scared because of something they'd read, so for us it's a no-brainer that we limit what the kids see.

[mammal_mama]

There are some really graphic shows/movies that are disturbing even to ME -- so I don't expose my kids to them. For instance, dh, dd (our 7yo, not our baby who was usually asleep at that time), and me started out enjoying "Heroes" -- but it really bugged me, the way they kept showing sliced-off heads with absolutely no warning.

So we decided it just wasn't a good show for us to watch.

My dh likes a lot of the "typical guy"-type action shows, with lots of shooting and stuff. Sometimes our 7yo wants to watch with him -- and he lets her know if he thinks she might find it disturbing.

If she doesn't like it, they switch to something they both like and dh watches his show when our dd's are asleep.

Our children are pretty quick to let us know when something's bothering them: the main thing I think parents need to be aware of, is that children want to be with their parents, and sometimes they'll force themselves to be desensitized in order to have a connecting-point, if all the parents want to do is watch violent stuff.

[WuWei]

We don't limit our child's media viewing. We do provide information for the type of viewing that he prefers. He doesn't want to see any type of anger, upsets or discord, or scary. So, I give him information about that when selecting media options. Sometimes, he tries some shows out (Dumbo, The Fox and the Hound, The Lion King). But, he was upset by some of them; others he chose to view parts, fast forward through other parts, sometimes turning it off.

Personally, I believe frequent viewing could desensitize a child. However, they do understand the difference between reality and tv, at some developmental point. However, I don't choose to introduce violence as a "norm", or cultural conflict resolution process. Instead, we model non-violent communications, and I know that you all embrace this also. For what reason would you consider introducing this type of media? Is the child requesting or desiring shows about which you are uncomfortable?

My goal is to nurture a foundation from which to explore the world without fear. For instance, ds has heard that folks could be killed in MVA, but it is just a rare idea, not a visual "reality". Same with guns, physical violence, "intentional harm". His reality is that he trusts that no one is going to do any harm.


Pat

[Jessy1019]

Just went through this in the "I am Legend" thread, but we do not restrict our child's media viewing based on content. We do limit time. My daughter is five now and has joined us for all kinds of movies -- action and horror aren't our favorite fare, but we do see them from time to time and Rylie is not really phased by them.

I am not concerned about desensitization to violence in movies and other fictional media -- it's fake and my child has been able to recognize it as such for a very long time now. I haven't seen any signs that she is becoming desensitized to real life violence because of her media exposure. She does not play violently at all, has lots of compassion for people, etc.

As someone else said in the other thread, if they someday do a study on unschooled children who choose to watch certain things with their parents present and discussing with them, then maybe I'll pay attention to the results. In the meantime, I am quite certain I know my children better than any researcher ever could.

[Storm Bride]

DS1 watched violent tv shows and movies as a child (both children's shows, such as Power Rangers and "adult" fare of the Arnie, Stallone, etc. variety). We'd occasionally watch something more dark, but I don't think he ever saw any actual horror movies, as I can't stand them. It's possible he saw one or two with his dad and/or aunt, though.

He played "violently" as a young child in the sense that he liked to "fight" - pretend to be a Power Ranger and jump around and stuff. When he was playing alone, he'd sometimes wave a stick and pretend it was a sword, but it only took a reminder that someone could actually get hurt to get him to put it down if others were around. He once said something on the playground that upset a more sensitive friend of his (can't remember exactly what it was) and caused her to have a nightmare. The parents talked to his kindergarten teacher and she talked to ds1...and he came home and talked to me about it because he felt terrible that he'd upset a good friend. He was always very careful about what he said around his classmates after that...and he and that friend and another girl continued to play Power Rangers every day at recess.

He'll be 15 in March. I've seen no signs of violent behaviour or desensitization to violence or other people's pain at all.

He's been involved in a total of three violent altercations:

- a case of bullying at lunch in 6th grade (he was knocked down, and hit repeatedly by a "friend" and his cronies)

- a case of being ambushed right around Halloween (another "friend" was laying in wait for him after school, because ds1 "stole" his girlfriend...even though the girl hadn't been his girlfriend for over a month...and was ds1's girlfriend first - I looovvve high school drama).

- a mugging on his way to guitar class a couple of weeks ago. The guy tried to steal his iPod.

In all three instances, ds1 was on the receiving end of violence. In one case, he hit the guy back, after being knocked down and kicked in the head and having his shirt torn almost off his back. In both other cases, he simply got loose and ran for help. I've had reports from teachers of people trying to start trouble, and ds1 walking away. He's just not a violent person at all. In fact, whenever another adult has given me a "report" about his behaviour when I'm not there (a dad who was in his cabin at Cub Scout camp, a teacher, another parent after a playdate), the word "kind" has come up at least 90% of the time. He's a really nice kid - far less prone to violence than I was at his age (I had severe problems with my hormones). Oddly, he also likes horror movies and such, which I never have.

We don't usually have the tv on much around here, but I don't worry much about what they watch as long as it's not upsetting them. I do tend to limit exposure to children's cartoon-type stuff, because I've got a thing about them. (I know three siblings who have speech problems, and I firmly believe that spending their lives parked in front of a tv, listening to children's characters talking in exaggerated lisps, weird voices, etc. is a contributing factor.)

[abac]

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Ds has not expressed a desire to watch anything I would consider violent. However, we are gamers and dh and I enjoy violent video games. I wouldn't be concerned so much with the punching, kicking type of game, but we like the slice your head off type game. We are constantly waiting until ds is in bed to play, and I just wonder how necessary that is. Of course if it was bothersome for him we would not play around him, but I don't really know if it would be upsetting for him as he's never been around when we play those games. We are also big horror movie fans, and ds has been disappointed that we don't watch those movies when he's around. He has actually asked to watch the Saw movies, which are pretty extreme as far as violence and gore goes. I tell him they are scary movies and he says, "They're not scary for me." He, of course, has absolutely no idea just how graphic and scary those movies are, so I've said, "Really, they are very scary. They make me scared and I don't want you to be that scared." I then offer him another video to watch, and that's the end of that.

I guess I was really wondering about beginning to expose him to some of our video games, but I'm not sure what his reaction would be so I'm hesitant to begin, for fear that he would be scared. But sometimes it's fun to be scared, (hence my love of horror movies,) and I'm just not sure if we're avoiding it for nothing. I think that adults often underestimate children's abilities to handle things that we think are upsetting, and I wonder if we're doing that? I just wanted to hear some other people's thoughts about this. I'm very happy I didn't get slammed for asking.

[UnschoolnMa]

We don't censor media.

I helped the kids navigate through lots of choices on TV/video/and movies when they were little, and I am available now that they are teens as well.

I do not care for extended violence or horror so I choose not to watch it. The kids have different levels of what they can or can't deal with, and also some common ground so they do watch some scary stuff together from time to time. (They are respectful of me and don't watch it in the living room. )

We discuss things often including what we see on TV/in movies and how it makes us feel. It's been good.

[WuWei]

I believe our children are influenced by our interests and passions. Therefore they are introduced to things we like, in ways which may not be their preference. Choosing to do that in a gentle and respectful manner could mean introducing something "scary", which is mildly scary (Wizard of Oz, type). This could allow you to gauge his reactions. Honoring that information is the next step. Sharing how you all like scary things and that they are pretend, might help him have perspective. However, I remember at 14, being quite terrorized by The Omen, since I had been brought up within the Christian beliefs. It is difficult for us to separate our beliefs from our imagination when we are quite young. Even among adults, there are many versions of "reality", and what beliefs are "true".

And my sister was frightened of the Wicked Witch of the West into her 20s.

Pat

[NaomiLorelie]

My thought is that the 3yo isn't phased by the scene because she does not yet "get it". IMO, if a child watches a reasonable amount of TV and has plenty of opportunity to discuss with parents it is not 'too' much of an issue.

That said, I didn't finish "Blood Diamond" because the violence was too much for me. I certainly wouldn't expose my kids to it.

[Jessy1019]

Originally Posted by abac

He has actually asked to watch the Saw movies, which are pretty extreme as far as violence and gore goes. I tell him they are scary movies and he says, "They're not scary for me." He, of course, has absolutely no idea just how graphic and scary those movies are, so I've said, "Really, they are very scary. They make me scared and I don't want you to be that scared."

My daughter didn't have any trouble with those. They are gory more than scary, IMO, and she would point out to us that the blood was really just paint and make up.

I guess I was really wondering about beginning to expose him to some of our video games, but I'm not sure what his reaction would be so I'm hesitant to begin, for fear that he would be scared. But sometimes it's fun to be scared, (hence my love of horror movies,) and I'm just not sure if we're avoiding it for nothing. I think that adults often underestimate children's abilities to handle things that we think are upsetting, and I wonder if we're doing that? I just wanted to hear some other people's thoughts about this. I'm very happy I didn't get slammed for asking.

I would start him out with one of your more mild games and go from there . . . see how he's reacting and let him know that you don't mind turning it off in favor of something else if he isn't enjoying himself.

[abac]

Jessy, how old was your dd when watching the Saw movies? Had she watched other horror movies before? I wonder if ds would find it as scary as I do. He has seen our milder video games, shooters and such, and loves them.

[Jessy1019]

Originally Posted by abac

Jessy, how old was your dd when watching the Saw movies? Had she watched other horror movies before? I wonder if ds would find it as scary as I do. He has seen our milder video games, shooters and such, and loves them.

It was within the past year or so, so she was four. She'd seen all kinds of movies before -- The Ring and The Grudge come to mind as two that terrify me but that she didn't mind. We warned her that it was going to be gory, but she had (and still has) a good grasp on what's real and what's not. She's never had nightmares or anything, whereas I'm freaked out all night and hesitant to leave my bed if we watch a scary movie before going to sleep.

[nicole lisa]

Some kids just love the macabre. DS always has. He has always loved re-enacting death and the melodrama of dark stories and poetry. He loves scary and gory and it's been him who asks to view horror. My brothers were the same way and by the time they were DS's age (7) they were puring over Fangoria magazine for all the how tos of horror movie gore. By 12 and 13 they were borrowing the drama department's handy cams (such bad quality in the 80s) and making their own horror films.

All children are different. DS can't watch movies and freaks out if there's parents fighting, even in a G film - he demanded we leave The Astronaut Farmer which was G here because of the parents fighting over finances - but he loves to watch horror. He sobs through animal documentary movies like Wild Chimpanzees because he finds the chimps and their interactions beautiful but loves horror.

[monkey's mom]

Nicole Lisa--so true!

My 6 yr. old is wanting Tekken 5 (or some such fighting video game right now). He loves the combat stuff, hates the blood, and *sobbed* when a baby meerket was left for dead last season on Meerkat Manor.

I have found that my child's comfort level with scary/violent movies/games has not been something I'm right about much. He's forever insisting that he's not scared, that it's pretend, and that he'll tell *me* when the scary parts are so *I* can look away.

The only person he's hit in anger in the past several years is his younger brother--and even that is few and far between. He's much more likely to walk away or take that important STOP & BREATHE moment or, even grab something out of his brother's hand.

Shoot, there's an old thread of mine in the GD forum where I actually told him it WAS okay to hit his cousin as she was punching him and pushing him at the top of a flight of stairs, and he had exhausted all other methods of talking/calling for help/etc. He still said he wasn't sure he'd be comfortable doing that.

They love combat play. They are very into Power Rangers right now. And they confuse and woo the Waldorf mamas with their tenderness toward the babies and wee ones. Seriously, my kids are little wrastlin' cubs, but incredibly sensitive, tender, considerate, and kind (even the 2 yr. old who is in the "hit first, ask questions later" stage of toddlerhood--a stage my older guy spent some time in, too, fwiw).

[abac]

Thanks again for the input. Ds definitely isn't phased by what he's seen so far. He loves the killing in the video games he's seen, (mainly shooters,) and loves playing chess because he gets to "kill" my pieces. I was more worried about the more gory, bloody, graphic stuff scaring him. We have The Grudge here on DVD too. Maybe I could start him off with something like that before we work our way up to Saw. Or dh suggested Heavy Metal as a good starting point, too. (I would be very happy if ds shared our horror movie passion. What a fun family activity!)

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by abac

I think we all hear pretty frequently, (at least I do,) that exposing children to violence is a no no, can cause them to become desensitized to violence, etc.

I'm wondering if there are parents here who have NOT limited their children's exposure to violence, and if they have noticed any effect on their children, positive or negative? I'm beginning to question whether there really is a good reason to limit ds's exposure to violence. So often, when we hear things repeatedly, we accept them without much real thought..

I personally don't believe in the "desenitization" argument. At least not much.

I've already posted this a million times but I know plenty of aggressive kids who are not allowed TV/movies/toys/books with violent themes. Yet they like to roleplay killing AND bully other kids. I personally think there are other issues at play (the kids I think would benefit from more sensory play and outdoor time FE) but that's just a feeling I have.

The reason I always bring it up is that I always hear about how it's so bad that some kids watch whatever and that's why they act like that, etc.

IME restricting media does not guarantee non-violent, non-aggressive kids. It might help in some cases but it's not a guarantee.

I also know kids who have been known to watch some PG and Y7 (tv ratings) stuff and are NOT aggressive towards other kids and generally play very nicely.

Also just because a child isn't frightened by a scary movie or tv show it doesn't mean they were desensitized. Some kids are way more sensitive than others. Even some adults. I had an enlightening discussion with some people who admitted that they couldn't watch "The Lucy Show" because things always went wrong and they couldn't stand to watch, knowing it would happen. Same with other sitcoms.

I'm not saying that you should deliberately try to expose your child to violence but I don't think there's a need to freak out if your child does watch say "Pirates of the Caribbean" on TV. Obviously if your child is terrified, don't let them watch. But I know some young kids who are fine with it.

Ditto for "Star Wars" even "King Kong" In the case of the latter I didn't sit my child down to watch it, I think I had wandered away because the first few hours (or so it felt like) were so dull and he ended up watching the most violent parts.

[marybethorama]

Originally Posted by WuWei

And my sister was frightened of the Wicked Witch of the West into her 20s.

Pat

Heck, me too.

My youngest OTOH adores her. He first saw the movie when he was three (or maybe younger) and he insisted on getting the DVD of "The Green Witch Movie" He used to fast forward to her scenes on the DVD.

[ShadowMom]

My DS does watch some cartoons which I consider to be violent (Tom and Jerry and Spongebob - dear god I hate Spongebob).

I don't consider desensitization of violence to be a concern. I have never seen any reliable data indicating that a child who watches violent television will become violent themselves. And TV is very much "pretend" so I just don't buy it, personally.

My concern with DS is that watching disturbing images would be disturbing to him. He would have no interest at all in watching Blood Diamond and would ask me to turn it off. And if he did watch it, he would not care for the violent scenes and they would scare him (he's 4).

My concerns about TV have more to do with the frenetic pace of activity, colors, etc. and how it can affect their growing minds.

So I guess you could say that at this point my DS regulates himself, although even if he had an interest in it I wouldn't be playing Blood Diamond for him. That's just my parenting instinct, not necessarily based on a lot of thought.

[Jessy1019]

Originally Posted by marybethorama

I had an enlightening discussion with some people who admitted that they couldn't watch "The Lucy Show" because things always went wrong and they couldn't stand to watch, knowing it would happen. Same with other sitcoms.

That sooo reminds me of a friend who could not watch "Meet the Parents." He did not find it funny at all, and was really upset that anyone did . . . he totally related to Greg Focker and felt terrible for him.