Husband threatening to circ our 8m old without my consent - Page 3

[onelilguysmommy]

Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri

I'd say that the order should say that all medical decisions be made by HER and her alone. This makes things less complicated in minor treatments, where she'd be legally obligated to get his permission first.

I understand how some guys can be upset over not circ'ing; but I can't believe he's being such a UA violation!!

how would a doctor know about papers?
i took my older a month after he turned 2... gave them his info and all, but theres nothing asking about if i am the sole decision maker! i didnt write their dads info and put in mine, nowhere was i asked if i even have permission to do any of this, nor was i asked for their bc or anything else for my newborn or when i took my 2yo.
i dont see how papers would help anything other than possibly get him in trouble after if he were to do it.

mama, id send a letter to every doctor within 150-200 miles who could possibly do it and have the info about his heart condition as well as that you WOULD sue if they touch your son, and a picture, maybe even of dad as well because like i said, they didnt ask for ID for either myself or my kids so... kwim?

[Blu Razzberri]

Sara,

Please start a paper trail documenting the abuse situations. If he hits you, go down and file a police report. Do whatever you can, so that if/when you do leave, you have a better chance of restricting his access to the kids.

[Blu Razzberri]

Originally Posted by onelilguysmommy

how would a doctor know about papers?...

If he violates a court order, he faces serious consequence. I'd hope that would be enough to stop him. But on the other hand, you're right too. I'd do both....get the court order AND the other stuff, like inform doctors and stuff.

However, she can inform doctors from here to Timbuctoo....if he's that desperate to do it, what's stopping him from leaving the state and going to another place to do it? KWIM? There is no 100% failproof way, but there are ways to make him accountable for his actions if he does find the nerve to do it. I'd cover all my bases as best as possible.

[perspective]

I have to admit that I generally disagree with the "Vulnerability of men" theory , because I feel the issue is much more complex then that theory allows. (not to mention it was a theory based totally on only outside observation, seeing as the guy who wrote it was uncut)

Here, there are two options, the first, the theory actually applies here. Or, this guys main concern is not the circumcision at all. From what it sounds like is that the OP is in an abusive relationship. Its name is a misnomer, because it avoids the modivating factor of the abuser, and that is total control. And just like many other parts of their life together, he wants control here too.

[To the OP] When you say "no, he wont be circumcised." Your taking a stand in something he feels he should have control over, and he refuses to accept this. (Just look, when you even bring up facts that might just question him, he yells at the top of his lungs so he wont hear it!)

I dont know exactly how to resolve things here. I think its important to make it clear to your doctor that you dont want this done, and you will sue him if he does. The only problem in saying this to all the local doctors, is in the future you will have a hard time finding a doctor that will take you, because they may fear being sued for something else. This is a tough spot, and that might be your only option. All I know is I dont think discussion is going to work here, only action and force, because thats the way he is playing this, so thats the only way you can respond.

[babygrant]

I just wanted to send the OP a . You really do not deserve this and neither do your children.

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by ma_Donna

I'm sorry, folks. But I really can't see that living without a FATHER is preferable to living without a foreskin!

Well, in this situation the father is advocating for something most of us consider child abuse---cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication---so, I think if this man is truly insistent it's more of a choice between single parenthood (at least temporarily) with a responsible, loving, compassionate, and protective mother or an intact family with an abusive husband and father. Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.

Jen

[swellmomma]

Can you just book an appt with a urologist there? out here you need a referal from your dr and it is a long wait. Start with the ped with lettinghimknow that there is no way you want your son circ'd if that is the case. Then start calling urologists in teh area to let them know your wishes.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

...cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication...

Heck, in this case, even AGAINST medical indication.

[bluetoes]

For OP's husband this isn't about the circ - this is about power and control, one more way to be abusive. If the circ. happens then he'll move on to something else. And while I would throw myself in front on a flying bullet to protect my son from that, what would be the even more horrifying outcome is not he DS looking like daddy. It would him ACTING like daddy. Abuse is a learned behavior in many instances and I don't think I could live with myself knowing my son could turn out like that. OP GIANT GIANT hugs to you. Please make a plan, save some $ and get the heck out of there. You deserve better as do you children.

[SquibsNCrackers]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

Power & Control Wheel

New Hampshire Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources







Jen

PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.

: EXCELLENT post. op

[Inci]

Sara, what a painful situation to be in! I'm sending you virtual hugs!
I agree with everyone else who has recommended that you immediately start formulating an exit plan. Your husband sounds controlling, manipulative, and dangerous. You and your children deserve love and kindness and respect. I can imagine that getting away from your husband might seem like a very difficult thing to do, especially when he threatens to do even more harm if you leave... but if you stay, it will only get worse. And women DO get away from their abusers, there ARE resources, and there ARE kind people in the world who will help! Have you ever talked with someone at a local women's crisis services center? It might help a lot, both for concrete, practical ideas, and emotional support as well.
Good luck, and keep posting... but also keep clearing your browser history to stay safe!

[pdx.mothernurture]

And while I would throw myself in front on a flying bullet to protect my son from that, what would be the even more horrifying outcome is not he DS looking like daddy. It would him ACTING like daddy.

Jen

[A&A]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

Well, in this situation the father is advocating for something most of us consider child abuse---cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication---so, I think if this man is truly insistent it's more of a choice between single parenthood (at least temporarily) with a responsible, loving, compassionate, and protective mother or an intact family with an abusive husband and father. Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.

Jen

:

[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

Power & Control Wheel

New Hampshire Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources







Jen

PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.

I agree with every word of this post.

OP, I think this goes way beyond just having a disagreement about circ, he is manipulative and using threats to "keep you in your place", so to speak. And that is what an abuser does.

[serendipity22]

Husband threatening to circ our 8m old without my consent

This is a sign of extreme irrational anger.

Remove all the rationalizations and you will find anger/hatred or fear are often basic motivations for circ.

I agree with the remarks re abusive realtionship.

[QuietTempest]

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this. The posters above all give great advice and I hope you make use of some, if not all, of it.

[RachelGS]

Sara, I'm frightened for you. You're in an abusive relationship. You are stuck only until you make the choice to get out. There is help available to keep you and your children safe. You don't have to live in fear.

[SleeplessMommy]

Are you working, with your child in daycare during the day? You can talk with your daycare provider, and request that you be notified ASAP if your husband picks the baby up early. (for example at 9am right after you drop him off)

Also, the longer you keep your child intact, the better his long term chances. For example, if your marriage falls apart after he turns 3, you can have "do not circ" in the divorce agreement, and there will be an additional medical ground for it, the risk of psychological damage (if you can get a therapist to agree to this one)

IF circ is done under GA, the baby will have to be brought in on an empty stomach. No food or drink for 6 hours +. Of course, circ could be done under local he finds a doc to do it.

I would strongly suggest you talk very frankly with your pediatrician. (and maybe the cardiologist) Explain that you have a strong held religious objection to circumcision. ("God made my baby perfect" can go with almost any religion.) Explain that your husband has been verbally or physically abusive in ways ______, and is now threatening to have your son circumcised as a way to abuse you. If there has been ANY verbal abuse of your children (screaming at them counts here, or hitting with any object, or spanking and leaving a mark) this would be a good time to discuss it - you are creating documentation that your husband is abusive.

IF you husband tries to arrange for a circ, the dr may contact the cardiologist office or pediatricians office, to ask for medical background. Having the above talk in advance with the Ped and Cardio could trigger them to notify you.

Some husbands have been adamant about circ, and then softened or changed there minds later... we hope this happens for yours, though I am not holding my breath. You need a counselor and an escape plan. I am sorry.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.

[thixle]

Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.

Well said!

I would strongly suggest you talk very frankly with your pediatrician. (and maybe the cardiologist) Explain that you have a strong held religious objection to circumcision. ("God made my baby perfect" can go with almost any religion.) Explain that your husband has been verbally or physically abusive in ways ______, and is now threatening to have your son circumcised as a way to abuse you. If there has been ANY verbal abuse of your children (screaming at them counts here, or hitting with any object, or spanking and leaving a mark) this would be a good time to discuss it - you are creating documentation that your husband is abusive.
IF you husband tries to arrange for a circ, the dr may contact the cardiologist office or pediatricians office, to ask for medical background. Having the above talk in advance with the Ped and Cardio could trigger them to notify you.

Some husbands have been adamant about circ, and then softened or changed there minds later... we hope this happens for yours, though I am not holding my breath. You need a counselor and an escape plan. I am sorry.

YES! And I cannot see a doctor agreeing to a circ on an older baby without his medical history. If mother documents that her child is not to be circumcised, any doctor could be sued that agreed to circ.

I would still contact all pediatricians and urologists in the area and notify them personally that your son is not to be circumcised-- I don't think a doctor would refuse later treatment, simply because you are having a struggle with your DH over one medical issue.

And yes, some men do eventually come around. In the meantime, OP should make necessary emergency arrangements, just in case.
Hopefully, he is just running his mouth, but human beings are capable of some horrible things (don't want the father trying to DIY circ, you know?).

[onelilguysmommy]

Originally Posted by thixle

I would still contact all pediatricians and urologists in the area and notify them personally that your son is not to be circumcised-- I don't think a doctor would refuse later treatment, simply because you are having a struggle with your DH over one medical issue.

ad OB or GYN and possibly MW as well and rabbi/mohels