Mothering › Forums › Archives › Birth Professional › client expectations of midwives
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

client expectations of midwives  

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
These things have been on my mind a lot lately, and I'd like to hear comments from both other midwives and consumers.

I feel like I've been giving my clients too much of myself. I'm having to crack down, set some rules, and build some boundaries. In our practice we have been doing all home visits, pretty much anywhere in a 2 hour radius (my partner lives an hour from me so we can spread ourselves out that far), any time that the clients preferred. My partner (an old country midwife) and I have had several discussions about what being a midwife means in terms of service to our clients, and we are now splitting our practice because we each feel that we need to offer different things.

I'll give you an idea of what we've been facing: We took on a client who lived 90 minutes away from me. I was used to that. She worked in a factory and claimed she could not take time off for an occasional one hour prenatal appointment. That was workable since I did keep Monday evenings until 8 open for evening appointments. However, they wanted to make their appointments for 6 or 7 pm, which meant that I would not get home until around 10:00 pm. The other option they offered me was weekends. That meant at least 4 hours of the only day I have set aside to be with my family. I had to bow out and let my partner find someone else to assist her.

So I'm making some changes.

Home visits: If they live in town, I will come to their home for a consultation. If they hire me I will provide the customary 36-week home visit, and home visits in the first week postpartum. Otherwise they will be coming to my brand new office in my home. Home visits are just NOT an efficient use of time. One day I went to see a client who lived 45 minutes from me. There happened to be a road block which added an extra 30 minutes. We had a regular one hour appointment, but she needed lab work that I did not have supplies for. It was quicker to drive to the lab for new supplies than go back to my house, but that was an additional 30 minutes each way. I take the lab sample, another 30 minutes back to the lab, and an hour and fifteen minutes back home. That's 5 hours for one appointment, and that's only the cost of my time on that occasion. There are other things that I need to do with my time. This summer I had to pay someone to mow my yard because it never failed that the sunny days were the ones I was out driving all over the country. I have a little side business selling herbs; this year a lot of my plants went to seed or rotted because I didn't have time to harvest them. My border collies were destroying my house because they were missing their daily agility sessions. Also, I have to have more frequent visits to the chiropractor and massage therapist when I spend all my time driving in the car. That adds up. Do I even need to mention the cost of gas?

Office hours: no more bowing to the client's schedule. I have office hours: Monday 12-5, Tuesday 10-3, with spillover on Thursday 10-3 , or on Friday if absolutely necessary. I don't see clients on Wednesday. That's my day for taking care of my personal appointments. I don't do evenings or weekends unless there are special circumstances. This is actually largely to having other engagements at those times; I used to cancel or miss them because that's when clients needed their appointments but then I realized how important those events were to me and how I was missing out on my life because of my work schedule (or lack thereof). My husband used to have a job that kept him away from home until late at night; when he had to find a new job he limited his options only to ones that would let him be home nights and weekends. It's only fair that I do the same.

It drives me nuts when clients say "I want to miss as little work as possible, can we have our appointments at night?" I want to miss my family as little as possible, and I've got to stick up for my rights and priorities. I tell them "When your baby is due, you are my top priority. When you are in labor, I am prepared to miss days of family time, including important family events, to attend to your needs. All I ask in return is that you respect the time I am able to make available to my family."

I know I'm probably coming across a little harsh (it has also come to my attention recently that I'm spending WAY too much time carefully composing my emails and posts; I'm trying to be more efficient by just saying what I need to say). But I'm wondering how you other midwives so it, and what clients expect of their midwives versus what is reasonable for a midwife to offer.
post #2 of 35
Thread Starter 
Oops, accidentally posted before I was through. I'm editing now. Please check back.
post #3 of 35
I am not a midwife, nor a consumer, but you are very right. You have to set rules and boundaries. That is exactly why I am getting an office. I want to have hours and want to be able to spend time with my husband. He is a construction worker and so he gets up early and comes home really late most of the time; he usually works weekends too. He is in the process of starting his own construction company so that he can be home in the evenings and on weekends. I know how it sucks when he is never home and I don't want to do that to him. You and I are basically in the same situation there

I don't think it is fair for clients to say that they don't want to miss work. Business hours are business hours. They are there so the people working can have time to spend time with their family. They can't tell their bank that they want to get an evening appointment, so I am not sure why they think they can ask that of us. They would have to miss work for doctors appointments so what is the difference.

I do hope you set some boundaries. Good luck
post #4 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trimestersdoula View Post
I don't think it is fair for clients to say that they don't want to miss work. Business hours are business hours. They are there so the people working can have time to spend time with their family. They can't tell their bank that they want to get an evening appointment, so I am not sure why they think they can ask that of us. They would have to miss work for doctors appointments so what is the difference.
Thank you. This largely is where my partner and I were in disagreement. When discussing the client I mentioned in my post, she said "She works in a factory. She can't take time off." I said "That's not my problem". She said that I was wrong, that's what people expect of a midwife. I said "well, it's a good thing she's got you to take care of her!"

I also pointed out that the hours wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to drive 90 minutes to her house, and she said, once again, that clients hire midwives because they expect the midwife to come to their house.

She also said that I knew getting into midwifery that it was not a 9-5 job. Well, duh! That's the beauty of being self-employed: it's not 9-5, it's Monday 12-5 and Tuesday 10-3, with occasional nights and weekends!

I'm not saying I don't like my partner, by any means! Every midwife is different, and we all have our beliefs about what our jobs should entail. Unfortunately our differences were too great for our partnership to be feasible, but I miss her terribly and we still rely on each other when we need help.
post #5 of 35
You have to do what works for you. If you tell clients up front what your 'set up' is then they can decide if they are ok with it and will work with you - or they can find someone else. I think its just that easy.
post #6 of 35
Thread Starter 
I also forgot to mention that I never felt that I was reaching my full potential as a midwife by doing home visits. I tried my best to keep my car fully stocked with supplies, but still there were times I was missing a lab supply or a handout or form that the client needed. If I had to take a vaginal swab for a wet mount the saline sometimes leaked out before I got home to the microscope, or I lost the tiny vial in my car. Once I had to do a speculum exam in someone's floor because their mattress was just too soft. I have an extensive lending library that I was not able to make available to my clients. I would tell them that I had books or videos, but I couldn't remember to take them to our next visit. They would have a question that I didn't know the answer to; I had to go home and look it up and call them back, which again I was likely to forget. I had to rely on them to make a photocopy of their insurance card for me which they usually kept forgetting and delayed filing. I had to rely on myself to remember to make a copy of their signed agreements and then get it back to them. I was almost always late or early to the appointments, and when I got there I was tired and frazzled, sometimes in pain from my arthritis.

Clients might miss the traditional midwife who always made home visits, but I think there are a lot of disadvantages they don't realize.
post #7 of 35
My midwife used to always do home visits. But, she was building her business and she was unmarried with older kids. She got married (two years ago tomorrow actually, I was there) and is now the busiest homebirth midwife in the state. She can't possibly visit every mother at home whenever they want and still keep a marriage and a life and be healthy. She doesn't see women in the first trimester mamas (never really did) though they can call her anytime they have questions or issues, second trimester they see her at one of two offices she keeps in two parts of the state (occasionally if she is nearby doing a birth or postpartum she might call a client and squeeze in a home prenatal if they are available), third trimester she does home visits within a 1 hour radius from her offices, but does certain regions of the state on certain days so you don't get any day M-F--you get the option of the days she is in your part of the state. She also utilizes a couple assistants in different parts of the state who can do basic prenatal or postpartums if a birth call takes her away. I do this for her myself even though I am not actively apprenticed right now, because I keep having babies to nurse. But, I was well trained to do visits when I was apprenticing and will help her in a pinch serving women in my area.

So I think there is a balance and flexibility possible in serving without being rigid. But, she has lost women who insisted that she come on Saturday so dad could be at a visit or be angry because she was unwilling to come to the house in the late evening so dad had time to get home from work and eat dinner. But then, what OB or CNM would allow that kind of command to perform on demand for regular prenatal care? NONE. If they really want a homebirth then they should be able to meet you halfway. This is the thinking behind the schedule I described above that is my midwife's new plan (she has been doing this about 1 year now).

I do totally disagree with only doing home visits one week post partum. I personally don't believe post partum mamas should be having to get in a car and drive until they are truly and well recovered physically and mentally from birth and I think that takes longer than one week. My midwife NEVER has a postpartum mama travel to her. I find that to be one of the cruelest aspects of US maternity care, forcing women to travel during what should be their babymoon. Given that most families do not have the traditional days gone by help that families used to give to new mamas, I think that would be the one part of what you describe doing that you might reconsider.

I also think the issue of not having supplies is more one of personal organization and that might get better once you feel like you have a semblance of life back. My midwife travels with lab supplies, and as far as dropoffs she will drop the slips/samples into the nearest doctor or lab office box from the appt. If its a box from the lab you use, they will take it and test it no matter where they got it. Try that and see...
post #8 of 35
I am not a consumer yet, hoping to be one soon

I think that the changes you want are very reasonable, as long as they are clear from the beginning.

Personally I much prefer to work with someone who is happy and satisfied with the conditions of the job, clear on what they are, (reasonably) rested, fulfilled, and guilt-free! There will be other midwives who are happier to pick up the clients who really need home visits and flexibility, and there will be clients who'd prefer to go to your office anyway.
post #9 of 35
Thread Starter 
homewithtwinsmama: how long do you think is reasonable to wait for postpartum office visits? I don't know any clients who aren't out and about with their babies after 2 weeks (my next routine appointment after the 1-2 I do in the first week).
post #10 of 35
I think you need a sabatical to visit other midwives. Do you go on vacation? I'm serious about this - next time you are away from home, call up midwives and meet for lunch! It would do you a world of good, I think, to see all the ways that midwives make it work.

For post-partum, I know midwives that do 1 pp visit, do visits every day until the baby is at birthweight, some do 3 pp visits, some do the 10-14 day pku test at home, some at the office.
I like to tell people that that 14 day PKU test is their first big trip out of the house - helps reinforce time to rest.

For labs - how about you find all the labs in your big area - put them on one sheet with phone numbers and hours and addresses. Once you fill out the sheet, they can take it to any convienient lab. I have done this lots for several of my health care providers.

A midwife I admire tells her clients that she has to have her family time - she does few evening appointments in the summer - her boys are in sports and she tells people that. In exchange for a single midwife practice where they have a personal relationship with her, they get a real person with other commitments and a family. It's a good trade. There are OB practices with 8-10 docs and midwives - you never have a problem with coverage - you don't hear that the midwife if going on vacation and has backup, it's covered seamlessly, but you don't have the connection. There are practices in between. I think they all work and everyone's gonna have a preference.
post #11 of 35
My midwife has office hours, and I have never questioned it. Never would occur to me to question it. I just make my appts for when she's "open". I expected the regular home visit, and a post partum home visit... and I pay for that. I don't expect anything else.

You're definitely in the right.
post #12 of 35
We do all appointments at the office except for a 36 week home visit. Postpartum, we do a 1 day, 3 day, 1 week, and 2 week at the mother's home, and a 6 week back at the office.

I think it is more than reasonable to set office hours. You need to take care of yourself as a person so that you can continue to care for your clients as a midwife.
post #13 of 35
I think you're absolutely right about everything. The only thing is, is there any way to offer *some* office hours that are not normal business hours? I think it would be really nice to have a window once a week that wouldn't interfere with most work schedules. You aren't obligated to offer this, but personally, I think I would. At the MMC birth center, Sunday is our busiest clinic day, and we offer Tuesday and Thursday evening appointments, and I can't tell you how much people appreciate that. It can be hard to be taken seriously at work when you're pregnant and they know you'll be taking time off, and having to leave for appointments all the time does make it harder.

OT: Apricot: 10-14 days for the metabolic screening?!? Whoa! They would have a heart attack if we tried that here. The people who do follow-up on the babies with issues want it done at 2 days and cringe if we wait 5 days. They say that by the time a couple of weeks passes, there can be permanent damage to the child that could have been prevented. Very rare, of course, but still, that's the whole reason for the test, to avoid the very rare but devastating effects of these diseases. The doctor who is in charge of the metabolic screening results follow-up for Miami-Dade had her baby at our birth center and did an in-service about this, and I'm inclined to believe her.
post #14 of 35
Thread Starter 
Apricot, I do find time to get away, and I meet frequently with other midwives. That's actually part of the reason I move to my own practice. It leaves me free to attend births with whoever I choose rather than be obligated to attend births only with my partner (financial issues there). I'm the president of our state association, so I get around.

I'm not burned out. I was getting there, so I made changes. I'm not one who is content to just sit around and complain about what's wrong in my life - if I'm not happy, I fix it (that's one of the few lessons my dad taught me as a child, and the most important one I ever learned).

The universe has thrown me a natural sabbatical during this time of transition. I've got a clear spot on my calendar between finishing up the home visit arrangements I have with previous clients and starting office visits with new clients. I've got my head clear. I think I just need affirmation that drawing these lines doesn't lessen my spirit as a midwife.

When I started drawing these boundaries I kept coming up with clients who tried to push them. That was harder than not having boundaries at all. It was easier to just go along with it than to stick up for myself (or worse, going along with it and feeling guilty for not sticking up for myself). Now during this lull I've had an opportunity to start fresh with new clients who know my boundaries up front and I don't have to worry about laying new rules down for existing clients. It's been a very clean break.
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by momileigh View Post
OT: Apricot: 10-14 days for the metabolic screening?!? Whoa! They would have a heart attack if we tried that here. The people who do follow-up on the babies with issues want it done at 2 days and cringe if we wait 5 days. They say that by the time a couple of weeks passes, there can be permanent damage to the child that could have been prevented. Very rare, of course, but still, that's the whole reason for the test, to avoid the very rare but devastating effects of these diseases. The doctor who is in charge of the metabolic screening results follow-up for Miami-Dade had her baby at our birth center and did an in-service about this, and I'm inclined to believe her.
We do one at 24-72 hours and one 10-14 days out. Sorry to give the impression that it's just the one.
post #16 of 35
Oh, that's interesting. Why do you repeat it? We've never been asked to do so, and I feel like they are very conservative here. Sorry to be so OT, I'll open a new thread if necessary...
post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momileigh View Post
The only thing is, is there any way to offer *some* office hours that are not normal business hours? I think it would be really nice to have a window once a week that wouldn't interfere with most work schedules.
I used to reserve one night for evening appointments to accommodate clients with difficult schedules. Now I have plans for every weekday evening: Monday is symphony chorus rehearsal; Tuesday I have class then the one night of the week I cook dinner; Wednesday is family dinner; Thursday is class then church choir rehearsal. Friday night I host "movie night" at our house for all our friends. These things are all very important to me, and I've made a commitment to them because I need them in my life.

I make myself available every first Sunday from 12-5. I also make exceptions for consultations and home visits,
post #18 of 35
Wow! What a busy schedule you keep! I'm impressed. I think that one Sunday a month thing is a great compromise.
post #19 of 35
I think your boundaries are very realistic. I'm not a midwive but my work requires flexible hours and home visits and I also need my own boundaries around these. One very strict boundary that I enforce (thats obviously not applicable for your work!) is not giving out my cellphone number. I work in mental health, so you learn very quickly that to provide the level of service my clients deserve, I need to be possesive of my time, and my emotional wellbeing. Sometimes these are hard lessons to learn and at first you will feel like the bad guy, but it really is worth is, and your clients will respect you for them. IMO I would never expect any professional to change their hours to a weekend just for me! Crazy!
post #20 of 35
I think as long as you tell people...try it - that's the only way to know if your area with withstand it. How about a weekend evening? Or 4-8 pm? You could combine weekend + evening.

Re: PKU - that's just the way my state has it set up. There are certain disorders that are easier to detect after more metabolizing has occured, and some that are detectable just hours after birth. It's always a balance between cost for the test, pain to the babies, and the available treatment. More information on wa state newborn screening. Somewhere's there's a cost analysis of how many were caught on the second screen and the cost of that screen compared with lifetime costs for the damage to the baby affected.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Birth Professional
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Archives › Birth Professional › client expectations of midwives