Feeling Defeated--Support ONLY - Page 3

[queencarr]

2. In-home respite care. For this kind, the state gives you a certain $ per hour for you to pick a respite care "worker" (really a babysitter of your choice). In our state you get around 10 hours a month at $7 an hour. Obviously $7 won't help you hire the best babysitter, but it can add $ to what you'd already be paying, or be a little $ bonus to a friend/family member who sets up a regular "get the parents out for dinner" respite schedule. You can use up all your hours at once (vacation), or you can scatter them over the six month period (dates).

This is the kind of respite care we had access to here in TX. I was able to pool the hours, and pay my Mom enough to cover a ticket to fly out and give me some needed relief when ds1 was a high needs medically fragile baby/toddler. Alternately, I could have sponsored a paid playdate with a friend (had I not been paranoid about kid germs )

Another place to look at funding is Easter Seals. In ND, we had access to 40 hrs a week of respite with skilled nursing care. We never had a chance to use it, as we moved, but knowing it was available like a pp said, was such a relief. It made getting through those next few hours possible. While you may not need nursing care, per se, it wouldn't hurt to have someone trained specifically to deal with behavior problems. Another idea maybe to look at is Big Brother/Big Sisters or a local Boys and Girls Club, depending on Desta's interests. AFAIK, ND was the only state to have this type of program, but I worked as a "tracker" with at risk (or those already in the system) children/teens to help develop healthy social, coping, and recreational skills. I usually took the child out of the home for 10-20 hours a month; ocassionally we stayed in the home and did such things as problem solve/organize/clean their bedroom or play a game with family. If you would like more info on this program, PM me and I will send you the contact info for where I used to work, to see if they know of something in your area.

Again, my heart goes out to you. You walk where I fear to tread. RAD is my one real fear in adoption, and I admire all your hard work and effort.

[alegna]

The retreat comment made me think- what about something like girl scouts where she could be gone for a weekend here and there doing something fun? A break for you, fun for her, and she might get something out of it too.

Just tossing out ideas- might not work in your situation.



-Angela

[Momma Aimee]

For people who use/used respite, how do you do it without making your kid feel rejected, sent away for being "bad"? That seems like it would just be confirmation to Desta that we don't love her and can't be trusted.

Can you spin it FOR HER ... "D you seem so angery / stress / bored ... we have made arrangements for this weekend for you to go stay with ______. you are going to do X, Y and Z"

Also -- could be seen as a pos when you really DO come back and get her the way you say you will .... ???

Having a respite plan has helped *so* much, but honestly I am not sure how I would feel using respite. Since my dd is so good for everyone else, it would make me feel like the problem is me But knowing that I could have time with just ds and dh if I needed it has made things better.

I would think that given the fact a child like D is "so good for others" (as DM has commented on when she started school too ) .... the break would only be for DM and her DH and the other kids, or really maily for DM .... BUT that doesn't mean the break isn't necessary or that the break would not be really useful If it is a chance for DM to refill her well so she doesn't dry up ... well even if it means nothing to DD THAT is still worth it.

and DM -- I know this si a long term thing -- but what about away summer camp? either a therapy one, one to link her with other adopted kids, or a launge or culture one or just a good old YMCA summer camp .....

Again -- HUG HUG HUG HUG

A

[dharmamama]

How do you qualify for respite? If Desta is officially diagnosed with RAD (right now we are just working with the opinion of the old therapist's supervisor, who is trained in attachment work and has worked with Children's Services for 23 years and punted us to the AT program because she thinks Desta has RAD) does that qualify? Or can you just call them up and say that you're going to pluck your nosehairs with a rusty crochet hook if you don't get some respite?

I do actually have a friend who has offered to take Desta for a few days, but I think she has some kind of boot-camp in mind that will make Desta hate it there so much that she starts looking at us as positively angels, and I am not sure that would work well ...

dm

[Momma Aimee]

How do you qualify for respite? If Desta is officially diagnosed with RAD (right now we are just working with the opinion of the old therapist's supervisor, who is trained in attachment work and has worked with Children's Services for 23 years and punted us to the AT program because she thinks Desta has RAD) does that qualify? Or can you just call them up and say that you're going to pluck your nosehairs with a rusty crochet hook if you don't get some respite?

never discount the help of a freind (D's or your's) who can take her for a few hours or a night or a day even if that freind of D's thinks YOU are the issue due to her "so good behavior" out of the home.

I would ask the threpist at cathoilc services about respite -- they might have a program of their own, or can help you link up with one.

When do you get in with the AT therpist?

Can you call and try to get in sooner?

Will it all be family, or will you adn DH get time too?

Aimee

[dharmamama]

I'm not sure when we see the AT. I am still filling out the THIRTY-FOUR pages of intake paperwork. I'm planning to finish tonight and drop it off tomorrow.

From what I understand, it will be a combination of Desta alone, Desta and me, Desta and me and dh, and me and dh.

dm

[annethcz]

<------- This is me, while reading your post.

Seriously, this is the first time that you've had the thought that it would be easier to just stop caring???? Note to self: Dharmamama is a waaayyyy better mom than I am.

For me, occasionally contemplating an 'easy' way out is just part of parenting for me. I realize that what I'm doing isn't working, and run through possible options that might make the situation livable. The thought of just giving up emotionally seems so easy- if I didn't care so much, the situation wouldn't be as frustrating. So (in 'normal' = non-RAD situations) I do usually pull back a little bit, emotionally speaking, just to give myself some breathing room and give myself a new perspective. I don't see this as necessarily bad, but rather as a coping mechanism.

In short, I have no advice for you. But I don't think you're a bad mom for feeling the way you are. Quite honestly, I'm shocked that it's taken you this long to get to this point. I have no doubt that you'll figure it out eventually, although it might take awhile to get there....

, cuz that's all I have to give.

[lauren]

Huge hugs to you

One teeny warning about respite care...... with kids that have attachment issues there is a strong tendendy for them to view the respite provider as the new 'good parent' and you as the 'even worse parent.' There is also a pull to behave very charmingly at respite and for the respite provider to begin to think that you are the problem, not the child. Just something to be aware of.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by alegna

Makes perfect sense.

It's a variation of what even toddlers do- the whole- I'm going to be SOOOO obnoxious that you couldn't possibly still love me, just to prove that you don't really love me, harumph.



Teens are exceptionally good at it- even "normal" teens.

And Desta? Well, other than you, what proof does Desta have that anything turns out happy? That there's good in the world? That anyone REALLY gives a crap?

So you are the one that must be wrong.

You couldn't POSSIBLY really love her like you say.

So by damned, she's going to be the biggest, most obnoxious pill ever THEN everyone will see that you don't REALLY love her- because how could you?



It's a great big head game.

This is absolutely right on...a big slice of the RAD pie.

When life got really tough with my oldest dfs, sometimes it was my built-in, all natural head-strong, absolute, complete stuborness that got me through. He wasn't going to "win" the head game. By G-d, I was not going to let him make me prove that he was unlovable!!!! All that crazy a** s**t that he pulled that made the police know us on a first name basis, all the misery he caused, all the fear he tried to instill in me, all the ways he pushed me away, he wanted me to give up on him so his whole world view could be proven. Then he wouldn't have to do any work.

H**l no!! I was putting way too much damn work into the relationship to let him get off so easily. He was going to learn that he could be lovable, and that was final.

(seriously, it may not be like this for other people, but I am f****ng bull headed when it comes right down to it, and honestly, it was how I survived some of the worst moments of motherhood).


Okay, so as for respite, we were fortunate that dfs did not qualify for "adoption" and was a permanent foster placement. He automatically received not only the standard respite, but because of the severity of his issues (we were a therapeutic foster care home dealing with one of the county's most intensive cases), two respite weekends per month!! dm, respite is so seriously worth whatever you have to do to get it. I would never have survived parenting dfs without respite.

In the state I come from, I have talked about this extensively at my adoption support group meetings, and I have been told that the state can cover respite as a part of "adoption support"/"adoption subsidy..." you just have to push it a bit. Does Desta already receive "adoption support?" I would try pushing it from that end, and if she doesn't receive "adoption support," I would be sure that you look into what it would take for her to get it because it can help you in oh so many ways.

You may want to also inquire in particular about whether you could have a therapeutic foster home provide her respite. If we had to find family and friends who would have done respite for dfs, we would have had a lot of painful time without respite. While dfs did behave himself 97% of the time at respite (damn RAD! lol), after he got comfortable with his regular respite providers (and having folks do it regularly was key for consistency), he did pull some crap that would have left us respite-providerless for extended periods of time. As it were, we did have a few therapeutic home respite providers start denying his respite placement after a while.

Reach out dm, and fight for this!

As for how to present it, dfs was already very familiar with respite. But the thing about it is that respite providers tend to give the kids a break from the work of attaching, and they need that too. Especially teens, who tend to need breaks from their parents anyway. And with dfs, its not like I could just let him go spend the night at friends houses, ya know? He did like it when he went to respite homes that had kids his age, and homes that "did respite" primarily. It helped to get to know these kids and their families so that dfs was associating with peers who also went to respite care. That was key because, although we would talk to dfs about the value of respite for all of us, etc., he really did feel like since most kids his age don't go to respite, on some level that it was a rejection. But we couldn't have afforded to live without it, so we just associated as much as we could with other folks who used it.

And I also would second the suggestion of therapy just for you. It is soooo helpful just to be able to spend an hour each week processing and venting and relinquishing unecessary ownership of that crap that is getting thrown at you all the time. I know I certainly have depended heavily at times on keeping my own sanity by having that supportive ear just to hear me out each week...and I think parenting a kid who has RAD is one of those times when you ought to depend on something like that. I regret that I didn't access that more when we were parenting dfs.

I recently learned that in my new city there is a support group for parents who have kids with RAD. That would be another awesome opportunity, even if the best you could find is just an adoption support group that had more folks that have adopted older children than your typical adoption support group (maybe there is one through the state?). Do you already attend something like this? Is it the right kind of group for you? I don't just mean any adoption support group, if you can't find a RAD group (for a RAD group, maybe check with your therapists to see if they know of any). I mean one in particular that has lots of folks with children who were adopted at older ages.

I have taken part in a post-adoption support group for some time now. I actually started when eldest dfs was placed with us, and I feel like it was especially helpful then on a couple of levels...(1) it normalized our family's experiences...we didn't have to be the only family in our local community dealing with the issues we faced; (2) it gave us a reality check-- other mothers parenting kids with similar issues feel similarly...my responses were not abnormal, but rather normal responses to sub-normal experiences; (3) it allowed me to sit down with folks who were talking the same language and to be fairly-well understood without having to explain myself all the time; (4) occassionally there were helpful problem-solving experiences.

I am sorry if I am suggesting anything you are already doing. I'm just throwing stuff out there because I soooo feel your pain.

Hang in there, mama. A lot can and will change in five years. While these issues may always be a huge mountain you are climbing with Desta, there will be rare but deeply satisfying moments of joy and peace and even pride in Desta...even if you have to wait what seems like forever for those moments.

By the way, have you ever heard of PCIT (I think that may be short for Parent-Child Interaction Therapy??)? They offer it at a trauma center in our area. It is a modified version of PCIT (no physical behavioral management especially) that was modified specifically to address traumatized kids' needs. Anyway, it is really behaviorally focused. It is about having short (aka tolerable) periods for parents to practice particular parenting skills that are different for kids who have experienced trauma or have RAD. As we know, a lot of times we are drawing from a different tool box with kids under those circumstances, and PCIT has two facets: relationship enhancement for parent and child with a behavioral approach, and then a behavioral management piece. As I understand it, it's not coming from a point of view of the parent or child as having a deficit, but rather on building from the parent-child strengths to create a behavioral management plan that addresses trauma. Anyway, I just spoke for 45 minutes with a therapist today who practices PCIT, and I thought it sounded interesting.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by lauren

Huge hugs to you

One teeny warning about respite care...... with kids that have attachment issues there is a strong tendendy for them to view the respite provider as the new 'good parent' and you as the 'even worse parent.' There is also a pull to behave very charmingly at respite and for the respite provider to begin to think that you are the problem, not the child. Just something to be aware of.

Yes, we had an AWFUL, HORRIBLE, GUT-WRENCHING, DESTRUCTIVE experience with this, contributed to by a clinically mentally ill foster care director who DIDN'T GET IT.

Um, it is something worth having in mind. I still think respite is a must, but it is absolutely *key* that everyone involved (especially the respite providers) understand RAD, know that this could be a dynamic in play, and commit to constant open communication and consistency between the homes. It is absolutely *key* that respite providers be 100% supportive of making your family work.

At the same time, respite will be respite. Desta should know in advance that her time away *will* feel relieving to her in many ways, that she very well may see the respite providers as the ideal parents, and that all that is natural but not reflective of what is real. The respite providers need to be communicating this to her as well.

[Momma Aimee]

it gave us a reality check-- other mothers parenting kids with similar issues feel similarly...my responses were not abnormal, but rather normal responses to sub-normal experiences;

I think this is very imporant -- however you do it -- DM ... you have to realize that what you are feeling (being done, beyond careing) .... is normal and everyons has that experince .....

aimee

[sugarmoon]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

never discount the help of a freind (D's or your's) who can take her for a few hours or a night or a day even if that freind of D's thinks YOU are the issue due to her "so good behavior" out of the home.

Originally Posted by lauren

One teeny warning about respite care...... with kids that have attachment issues there is a strong tendendy for them to view the respite provider as the new 'good parent' and you as the 'even worse parent.' There is also a pull to behave very charmingly at respite and for the respite provider to begin to think that you are the problem, not the child. Just something to be aware of.

Yeah.

I'd warn strongly against using a respite provider who thinks you are the problem and thinks Desta is just charming and wonderful. That will be seriously detrimental.

I think the friend who intends to make Desta miserable is not a terrible idea. I know Nancy Thomas is controversial, but one thing I remember from her is the idea of theraputic respite for RAD kids. This would be a respite provider who is clear with the child -- I'm not your mom, and I don't *want* to be your mom. You have a good mom!. The example I remember is the kid gets served a sandwich and complains, my mom always cuts off the crusts. Respite provider says, I don't cut off crusts here. You'll have to wait until you go home to your mom to get that kind of special care from someone who loves you. I don't love you, I'm just taking care of you today. Sounds kinda mean, but IMO for RAD kids, it really is good to spell it out, cause otherwise they can really play the situation.

In my state (VT) *any* adoptive parents (not just those who have adopted from the state) can get post-adoption services, including in-home case management and support, respite funding (to be used as the parents see fit -- hourly respite, weekend respite with a provider of your choice, lessons, summer camp etc). I'd call your state DCF and ask them about post-adoption services (in my state, it is contracted out to several private agencies) and then call that program and explain your situation. If they can't help you, they may have some ideas about where you can turn next.

Just a thought on the picking battles thing. I try very hard not to get into battles that I'm not going to win with my RAD kiddo. And when I'm in one (even when I realize I shouldn't have gotten into it) I'm willing to go to some fairly un-AP lengths to win. Everytime I back off and let my kid "win", we have terrible backsliding for days. Sounds terrible, but I've got thick enough skin for anyone who wants to criticize me.

I really really hope the attachment program starts up for you soon. They might be able to help connect you with some other respite ideas, or a support group, or something.

Hang in there Dharma!

[Momma Aimee]

I'm not your mom, and I don't *want* to be your mom. You have a good mom!. The example I remember is the kid gets served a sandwich and complains, my mom always cuts off the crusts. Respite provider says, I don't cut off crusts here. You'll have to wait until you go home to your mom to get that kind of special care from someone who loves you. I don't love you, I'm just taking care of you today.

I don't know that I'd be that harsh or sinppy -- but of course written text is limited -- but i cna sure see saying to a child "I know you mom does that, she takes the extra time cuz she loves you. I care about your well beeing, but i am not your mom." ...... it is not going to change D, it is not going to open her eyes or help her face the fact she won't let her self (at this point) be happy ..... but it might at leat not add to the power stuggle of respite "mom" vs mom ... yk?

But I think the goal of respite --or any break -- shoudl not be so much the effect of D ..... as long as it doesn't become a peice of fighting annom "you don't love me you sent me away" (but again i think there is a pos possiblity when you DO come back to get her like you say you will) ......the main push of any respite care needs to be giving DM and her DH a break. IF the respite can some how be theputic for D TOO that is iceing on the cake .

[raleigh_mom]

Originally Posted by gus'smama

I think the friend who intends to make Desta miserable is not a terrible idea. I know Nancy Thomas is controversial, but one thing I remember from her is the idea of theraputic respite for RAD kids. This would be a respite provider who is clear with the child -- I'm not your mom, and I don't *want* to be your mom. You have a good mom!. The example I remember is the kid gets served a sandwich and complains, my mom always cuts off the crusts. Respite provider says, I don't cut off crusts here. You'll have to wait until you go home to your mom to get that kind of special care from someone who loves you. I don't love you, I'm just taking care of you today. Sounds kinda mean, but IMO for RAD kids, it really is good to spell it out, cause otherwise they can really play the situation.

I suspect this is going to sound really harsh to many moms who are used to APing. The thing is, this isn't a normal situation. This is a sick kid. From what I understand, sometimes what works best for RAD isn't the gentle AP we use with other kids. These families really do have a unique situation.


Hugs to you, mama. How are you doing today? Have you had a chance to drop off the paperwork?

[eloise24]

Wanted to offer a hug of support! DH and I usually end up with one or two mildly "rad" kiddos each year and whew, they sure are a lot of work. Like you and a few others have said, there is no way to understand how different these kids are, unless you have one. Especially on an AP board . . . many of the things that will work with them would get you banned here, HAHA! Anyway, hang in there, and I hope some of the organizations near you are able to offer some support and help, in real life.

I think the idea of having a break is a huge #1, especially someone who can't be charmed by her. I know that is so frustrating to us, when people are easily charmed by our rad kids and we end up looking like the bad guy! Remember, you are doing a great job with her, keep it up!

[dharmamama]

Thanks everyone. We visited the HIV doc today and I asked to speak with hospital's social worker. We had a good conversation and she gave me some resources to look into. She also gave me some gas cards to help out for when we have to take Desta and Efram to a children's hospital 1 1/2 hours away to see specialists. That was a huge relief!

I just emailed our state's equivalent of Children and Family Services and explained that I have an adopted child who is having attachment issues and that I would like information on what post-adoption services are available to us.

I also checked with Catholic Social Services about adoptive parent support groups. They have an attachment-problem support group that meets TONIGHT! I have to work tonight. I am actually considering calling in sick so I can go, but I am working for someone else tonight (we switched), so I don't think I can fink out. I guess I'll have to wait until next month.

I'm also going to a Humane Society meeting tomorrow. It's only me, it has nothing to do with children or parenting or homeschooling or adoption or HIV or asthma or Sensory Processing Disorder. It's about bunnies. I called dh at work and told him that he couldn't work late tomorrow, I'm going out.

I really appreciate everyone's support and sympathy/empathy. The suggestions for resources are really helpful ... more helpful than parenting advice would be. Thank you all so much. I'm deeply appreciative.

dm

[Momma Aimee]

DM -- I ma glad to see a light for you ... I know i can't really relate to your specific issue -- but i do know that for me, when i am bogged down and worn thin -- at least getting an IDEA at least trying to make some progress (as Dh says do something, even if you have to change it later, do something) helps me emotionally .....

I hope this

Thanks everyone. We visited the HIV doc today and I asked to speak with hospital's social worker. We had a good conversation and she gave me some resources to look into. She also gave me some gas cards to help out for when we have to take Desta and Efram to a children's hospital 1 1/2 hours away to see specialists. That was a huge relief!

I just emailed our state's equivalent of Children and Family Services and explained that I have an adopted child who is having attachment issues and that I would like information on what post-adoption services are available to us.

I also checked with Catholic Social Services about adoptive parent support groups. They have an attachment-problem support group that meets TONIGHT! I have to work tonight. I am actually considering calling in sick so I can go, but I am working for someone else tonight (we switched), so I don't think I can fink out. I guess I'll have to wait until next month.

I'm also going to a Humane Society meeting tomorrow. It's only me, it has nothing to do with children or parenting or homeschooling or adoption or HIV or asthma or Sensory Processing Disorder. It's about bunnies. I called dh at work and told him that he couldn't work late tomorrow, I'm going out.

Gave you the lift it would give me

Hang in there -- we are all pulling for you...

If i could I'd come over.

Aimee

[dharmamama]

Thanks, Aimee.

I also called a local teen center today and talked to the director about their programs. I waffle back and forth between how much time I want Desta to spend out of the house. After all, the goal is to attach, and she's already gone almost 8 hours a day for school. But then again, when she is here, we are not getting along well, so maybe she would benefit from some after-school programs.

She was in Girl Scouts last year and liked it at first, but then the girls started getting into doing the Silver Award, which required a lot of reading and writing and long-term planning, and Desta completely lost interest. She played soccer in the fall and it was very good for her physically and emotionally. She will play again in the spring. We thought about indoor soccer for the winter, but it's a) spendy b) far away and c) much more likely to result in blood (skin+astroturf=ouch). So she's not really doing much this winter. She does go out with a friend of mine's wife every other Sunday, and she enjoys that, and she goes to an Ethiopia Kids group (adoptive families group that I run) once a month, and she likes that, but during the week she's kinda just hanging around.

So, I am going to take her to the teen center on Friday to check it out. I think they have a pool there, and the man said that they let the kids organize programs that interest them and encourage them to take responsibility for running the center. I asked whether the kids are well-supervised and he said yes. The last thing I want Desta doing is just hanging out unsupervised. But if I feel comfortable with the teen center, maybe she could spend some time there a few afternoons a week and do her homework in the evenings.

So, we'll see.

And Aimee, you're right. Just the idea that there are possible solutions is energizing.

dm

[Momma Aimee]

She played soccer in the fall and it was very good for her physically and emotionally. She will play again in the spring. We thought about indoor soccer for the winter, but it's a) spendy b) far away and c) much more likely to result in blood (skin+astroturf=ouch).

Again -- likely something you have thought of -- buttttttt

maybe a PHYSICAL outlet for her -- since that seemed to help her stay on an even keel? A family memberhsip to the Y and she could take arobics, or swim? a martial arts class?

Or -- along the lines of helping bond / attach / be a part of the family -- maybe you AND she could find a physical outlet .... kinda like talking to a teen while driving in the car .. if you both have something else to focus on but are doing it together.... arobic class together, line dancing, something that really gets the heart rate up ..... maybe even something "silly" for fun -- clogging or something? Or heck -- start joggoing together

?????

Glad things are looking better

[Jane]

I just wanted to give you hugs. My brother has RAD. Is is frustrating. It's been about 10 years since he joined our family. I think he's taken years off my mother's life. Something about sucking the joy out of life - like you do something, and it's terrible the whole time, really awful, pulling teeth to do stuff, but afterwards, he says it's the best thing ever - can we do it again? NO - it sucked for me. Then I'm a meanie. But it repeats next time. Sucks for me, sucks for him, but then he says he liked it!

How'd she like her ipod? I remember you posting about the drama there.