I just watched Sicko. I'm moving to France. Or Canada.

[granolalight]

I already knew the heatlh care system was a mess, of course. But this movie helped make it more real to me. Instead of seeing it as this big, screwed up entity, it enabled me to get a peek into the lives of people who have suffered from our wonderful health care system.

It's so bizarre that our system works (doesn't work) this way. My big question is... in countries where all health care is paid by the government, are taxes astronomical?

I saw this movie two days ago and am still very shaken and saddened by it.

[Heart.Revolution]

I just watched it too. Canada or bust!

[TranscendentalMom]

I know, its terrible isn't it? I have a friend who is a nurse practioner and is currently taking a break from healthcare because she couldn't take working in the system anymore. She told me that unsinsured people get kicked out of the hospital with nowhere to go all the time at every hospital she's ever worked in. She's seen doctors on the phone with insurance companies begging them to pay for things. She said one time a caring case worker had some charges filed against her client (who was a sick patient with no insurance) so the woman could get medical treatment in jail. Going to jail so you can get medical treatment? Now that's f'd up!

[granolalight]

And how about in France where you get 5 weeks MINIMUM paid vacation, even if you are part time? And free child care? And a government employee to come help you with laundry, dishes, etc. when you have a new baby!?! Can you imagine? It's no wonder they are so much healthier than us.

I would serioulsy consider moving to Canada if it wasn't so :
I grew up in Michigan and live in Texas now and, well, I enjoy the year-round warm weather very much!

[JERENAUD]

Originally Posted by granolalight

I already knew the heatlh care system was a mess, of course. But this movie helped make it more real to me. Instead of seeing it as this big, screwed up entity, it enabled me to get a peek into the lives of people who have suffered from our wonderful health care system.

It's so bizarre that our system works (doesn't work) this way. My big question is... in countries where all health care is paid by the government, are taxes astronomical?

I saw this movie two days ago and am still very shaken and saddened by it.

In regards to the taxes... there is a tiered system. I pulled the details from this website: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individ...axrates-e.html

Basically, we pay 15% on the first 37K of income, 22% between 37K and 74K, 26% between 74K and 120K, 29% on income over 121K.

There's also provincial tax, which is calculated in a similar manner but at lower rates.

But, keep in mind that there is a big difference (for many people) between their gross income and their taxable income. There are a lot of credits that reduce the amount of your income that you actually pay taxes on. Moving expenses, childcare, charity, etc. Last year my husband's gross income was $70K but his taxable income was under 56K.

On said $70K income we ended up paying just over 10K in taxes. So that's $875 per month. Yes, probably higher than most Americans pay. But is it higher than most Americans pay in taxes AND health insurance AND deductables etc.?

Does that help?

There's also a 5% tax on 'goods and services' - not food, or anything deemed a 'necessity'. I'm in Alberta so we have no provincial tax. Many provinces are introducing health care premiums of $80-$100 or so (for a family) per month. Many employers cover this.

Erica

[gwerydd]

if we were living in the states dh and i would be broke. i am basically uninsurable in the states due to high bp, mental illness etc. i had to see a specialist while pregnant, had pre-e, a c-section, 16 days in the NICU for my dd, and a week in the psych unit for PPD. i am so grateful that we had the public healthcare that we have here in Canada. it's not perfect but it's better than nothing.

[kristinc]

My husband and I had the same reaction after watching sicko. We were gung-ho about moving to london. We are both in healthcare but hate the system. I love the idea that the doctors get paid more when their patients get healthy as opposed to the US where you only get paid when you do more tests and your patients are really sick. Not to mention that their maternal healthcare system is ridiculously better than ours. It makes me sick to think about the
6K that we spend a year to get health insurance and our benefits don't even cover my annual exam not to mention that hubs and i are very healthy and that is the only thing that i go to the doctor for. Grrr... I hate even thinking about it:

[selendang]

Yep, very thankful to be here in Canada. Our health system is not perfect by a long shot. Very inefficient, lots of waste and really really long wait times for some tests, surgeries etc. However, that being said, almost everybody gets care, whether you can afford it or not. you'd get to keep all of your fingers anyways.

[granolalight]

Originally Posted by selendang

Yep, very thankful to be here in Canada. Our health system is not perfect by a long shot. Very inefficient, lots of waste and really really long wait times for some tests, surgeries etc. However, that being said, almost everybody gets care, whether you can afford it or not. you'd get to keep all of your fingers anyways.

What do you mean lots of waste and long wait times? Like how long? I think wait times are often long in the US too, aren't they? M. Moore talked to people in waiting rooms while in Canada and everyone said they never had to wait long to be seen and everyone seemed happy with their health care. Was that an accurate depiction?

[granolalight]

Originally Posted by JERENAUD

In regards to the taxes... there is a tiered system. I pulled the details from this website: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individ...axrates-e.html

Basically, we pay 15% on the first 37K of income, 22% between 37K and 74K, 26% between 74K and 120K, 29% on income over 121K.

There's also provincial tax, which is calculated in a similar manner but at lower rates.

But, keep in mind that there is a big difference (for many people) between their gross income and their taxable income. There are a lot of credits that reduce the amount of your income that you actually pay taxes on. Moving expenses, childcare, charity, etc. Last year my husband's gross income was $70K but his taxable income was under 56K.

On said $70K income we ended up paying just over 10K in taxes. So that's $875 per month. Yes, probably higher than most Americans pay. But is it higher than most Americans pay in taxes AND health insurance AND deductables etc.?

Does that help?

There's also a 5% tax on 'goods and services' - not food, or anything deemed a 'necessity'. I'm in Alberta so we have no provincial tax. Many provinces are introducing health care premiums of $80-$100 or so (for a family) per month. Many employers cover this.

Erica

I could be wrong, but those taxes don't seem that much different from US taxes. We pay $330 per month for health insurance, and then there is a $30 co-pay for every doctor visit.

In Canada, is dental, vision, and mental health all covered too?

[MsChatsAlot]

Dental, vision and mental health care are not covered in Canada.

[Heart.Revolution]

Originally Posted by granolalight

I could be wrong, but those taxes don't seem that much different from US taxes. We pay $330 per month for health insurance, and then there is a $30 co-pay for every doctor visit.

In Canada, is dental, vision, and mental health all covered too?

Yes it seems similar to what we pay here in the US for taxes..the difference is that we get nothing in return! I am employed part time and my husband is self employed so our jobs do not offer health coverage. We cannot afford to pay as individuals because we have to save all our money for taxes. How sad is that? We have to mail in our quarterly payment next week that could have been used toward several months of health care, instead it's going to pay for bombs and weapons. WTF!

[JERENAUD]

Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot

Dental, vision and mental health care are not covered in Canada.

Dental is covered for those who receive welfare benefits, I believe. Certainly emergency extraction is covered, unfortunately not preventative. Vision is covered for those under 18 and over 65, at least in most provinces. Mental health is covered, to a degree. I know that psychiatrists are covered, I don't *think* that psychologists and counsellors are.

http://www.health.gov.ab.ca/professi...edure_List.pdf
psychiatry starts on page 27, dental on 73.

http://www.coverme.com/LH/CoverMe/mi...Covered/A.html


You can also self insure (or get extended benefits through your employer) to cover these things and prescriptions, etc. We pay about $30/ month (for our family), through my husband's employer, for 80% coverage on prescriptions, dental, ambulance, etc.



Erica

[gwerydd]

Originally Posted by MsChatsAlot

Dental, vision and mental health care are not covered in Canada.

mental health is covered. my pychiatrist, therapist and mental health hospitalization were all paid for by my provincial health insurance.

[NaomiMcC]

We're in Canada and we wanna move to France! LOL! Or Norway...

We pay $70/month for blue cross which covers stuff like ambulance rides and about $140/month for provincial medicare or some such thing (I'm in BC...anyone remember what the heck it is?) Usually my work pays for that but not when I'm on mat leave. So free healthcare? Yes and no. But still a million times better than the states!

[granolalight]

Originally Posted by NaomiMcC

We're in Canada and we wanna move to France! LOL! Or Norway...

Yeah, how about that prison in Norway? Pretty swanky! Imagine... rehabilitation for prisoners? Treating them as equal people? Letting them walk in the grass and sunshine and ride bikes? Is it any WONDER why our prisoners get out and re-offend? :

[rockycrop]

DH and I watched this last night, and he got all excited about moving to Europe.

I felt so horrible for the woman whose daughter died because the hospital would not treat her--INSANE! I am getting really mad just thinking about it right now.

And CUBA! I don't know if this is really naive of me, but I was surprised to see how nice their hospital was. Have we really been conditioned to think it's a run-down, repressed country because they have no trade with the U.S.?

The whole thing is mind-boggling.

My fairly insignificant health care story is: I was working for a retail store when I was pregnant, and I had insurance through my job. I was due in June, and was told in mid-May that my coverage was getting taken away because I had worked .5 hour less in March than I needed to keep coverage. I was paying my midwife out of pocket, but I wanted to be covered in case we had some kind of emergency. So I had to buy COBRA and pay $720 for what I had been getting at work. :

I would happily pay a higher tax to take away all the headaches I have had to go through in the past year due to insurance.

[granolalight]

Originally Posted by rockycrop

DH and I watched this last night, and he got all excited about moving to Europe.

I felt so horrible for the woman whose daughter died because the hospital would not treat her--INSANE! I am getting really mad just thinking about it right now.

And CUBA! I don't know if this is really naive of me, but I was surprised to see how nice their hospital was. Have we really been conditioned to think it's a run-down, repressed country because they have no trade with the U.S.?

The whole thing is mind-boggling.

My fairly insignificant health care story is: I was working for a retail store when I was pregnant, and I had insurance through my job. I was due in June, and was told in mid-May that my coverage was getting taken away because I had worked .5 hour less in March than I needed to keep coverage. I was paying my midwife out of pocket, but I wanted to be covered in case we had some kind of emergency. So I had to buy COBRA and pay $720 for what I had been getting at work.

I would happily pay a higher tax to take away all the headaches I have had to go through in the past year due to insurance.

I too was so upset about that baby who couldn't get treated at the hospital and had to go to another where her insurance would work and she DIED. That is absolutely mind-boggling and appalling and made me soooo sad. :

That is so ridiculous about your own situation! There are soooo many stories out there about *bs* insurance hassles.

[MaddyMad]

I still haven't seen this movie yet. I've been wanting to forever and it's so werid that I read about it today because all my friends were yelling at me to see it last night. I guess I really need to get on that!! I'll try to watch it tonight and leave a comment about it tomorrow.

[BedHead]

I make 60k a year and pay just over 5k in taxes. That's income taxes. There's the 5% GST and all the hidden taxes too. Supposedly more than half our income goes to taxes that are built into the cost of things.