AP and the 7b's

[lil_earthmomma]

I see that there are a lot of ap questions/cries for help so I thought I'd share something I read the other day that really helped me to put things in perspective:

I just think it should be clarified that AP is NOT no circ, cloth diapering, non vax, or homebirthing. AP IS, the 7 "B"'s:

Birth Bonding (not necessarily homebirth)
Breastfeeding
Baby Wearing
Bedding close to baby (not necessarily in the same bed, but same room!)
Belief in baby's cry/language
Beware of baby trainers
Balance.

[Ann-Marita]

I think you might find many here disagree with you about no circ being part of AP. Including me.

[LilyGrace]

Actually, AP isn't even the 7Bs. Those are tools that can help with AP, not rules. AP is respect and nurturing, meeting the needs of the infant to promote security, trust, and bonding.

[Kessed]

Those are just suggestions. They don't 'define' AP.

My DD didn't like to be worn. We tried and tried - I have 6 different types.

By your definition I didn't AP...

[EVC]

Hmmmm....Trying to define AP is always a bit of a slippery slope because AP is primarily about respecting and responding to your child's needs and that will vary somewhat from family to family as babies are individuals and what "works" for one isn't always right for another. AP means following your baby's individual cues.

Also, many no-circers see circ as a basic human rights issue and you can't really willingly infringe on your child's basic human rights and still call yourself AP.

Just my two cents

[AllisonR]

I don't mind the suggestion that these 7 things are what AP means to YOU. But I do mind you saying that AP is defined as those specific 7 things. That's trying to put a lot of people in a very tight, very square box. And that is one thing I personally think AP isn't - rigid.

What is "Beware of baby trainers"? Does this mean cloth diapering? If so, then woops, you just lost another AP'er, according to your list.

Also, I did homebirth. So if that is specifically not not AP... well, I'm confused. Never was great at math and double negatives.

[theatermom]

Originally Posted by AllisonR

I don't mind the suggestion that these 7 things are what AP means to YOU. But I do mind you saying that AP is defined as those specific 7 things. That's trying to put a lot of people in a very tight, very square box. And that is one thing I personally think AP isn't - rigid.

What is "Beware of baby trainers"? Does this mean cloth diapering? If so, then woops, you just lost another AP'er, according to your list.

Also, I did homebirth. So if that is specifically not not AP... well, I'm confused. Never was great at math and double negatives.

Baby trainers are like baby whisperers -- people or books or maxims that say that if you get baby into X,Y, or Z routine, usually early on, then your parenting woes will be greatly reduced.

This list is actually on the Dr. Sears site, but it's followed by a large list of caveats which can basically be reduced to this: AP is a style or attitude of parenting that stresses respect for the child's needs, emotionally and physically, and that the 7 B's are tools that can help facilitate a bond of trust between parents and children. If a particular child doesn't want to be worn, and the parents do it anyway, then I wouldn't call it AP; the parents aren't respecting the needs of the child as an individual.

I don't think that any one decision by a parent means that they will not be able to forge a trusting, long-term bond with their children, but many such decisions can reflect a lack of respect for children as individuals with legitimate needs and desires; this can damage the relationship, and potentially the child.

[Kessed]

This list is actually on the Dr. Sears site, but it's followed by a large list of caveats which can basically be reduced to this: AP is a style or attitude of parenting that stresses respect for the child's needs, emotionally and physically, and that the 7 B's are tools that can help facilitate a bond of trust between parents and children. If a particular child doesn't want to be worn, and the parents do it anyway, then I wouldn't call it AP; the parents aren't respecting the needs of the child as an individual.

ITA

I know a woman who thinks that she's APing. She wears her DD around on her back all the time - regardless of how much her baby screams. Her kid obviously wants down - but she will just walk faster or jiggle or sway until she falls asleep. It's NO different from CIO.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by Ann-Marita

I think you might find many here disagree with you about no circ being part of AP. Including me.

Everyone is welcome to interpret Attachment Parenting in the way that makes the most sense to them... but I think you should be wary of telling us what AP is and is not. You don't determine what is or is not AP for other parents.

[mackysmama]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I just think it should be clarified that AP is NOT no circ, cloth diapering, non vax, or homebirthing. AP IS, the 7 "B"'s

Well, first, according to who? And, this isn't an AP message board, it is a natural family living board and AP parenting style usually falls within that. But, in my opinion (and really, this is all just opinions), AP isn't a formula to follow instead of following another one. It's how to view the child and the relationship with the child. I know a lot of people who think they "AP" because they follow the "AP RULES" but they aren't really listening and responding to the unique needs and cues of their child.

Now, as for the above quote, it could be easily argued that circing, vaxing, and being born in a typical U.S. hospital interferes directly and significantly with birth bonding - cutting off a part of your child's body leaves them feeling distrustful and in pain which makes it difficult to bond (there have been lots of studies on the amount of eye contact before and after a circ), the same goes with vaxing, and a lot of the procedures that are done to babies (and mamas) in the hospital (eye ointment, being removed for an "exam", being woken up to be checked, the bright lights at birth, etc.)

[captivatedlife]

op - my suggestion is to edit your post with the information that is later in this thread.

This list is actually on the Dr. Sears site, but it's followed by a large list of caveats which can basically be reduced to this: AP is a style or attitude of parenting that stresses respect for the child's needs, emotionally and physically, and that the 7 B's are tools that can help facilitate a bond of trust between parents and children. If a particular child doesn't want to be worn, and the parents do it anyway, then I wouldn't call it AP; the parents aren't respecting the needs of the child as an individual.

Here's the link

I think it's important to distinguish between what is ap and what is wrong. (imo, circ isn't an "ap issue". It's a "right or wrong" issue.)


But I'm the type of person who think that people put too much stock into being "AP" and less on what makes sense to them.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by captivatedlife

I think it's important to distinguish between what is ap and what is wrong. (imo, circ isn't an "ap issue". It's a "right or wrong" issue.)

ITA...

I thinkt he danger with saying "this is AP" and "that isn't AP" like some posters are already doing in this thread is - there's a big difference between saying, "In my opinion, circumcising (or medical birth or whatever) can really interfere with bonding because of X, so if you're striving to be an attached parent it can interfere" and "if you do X you aren't AP".

And it's awfully easy for parents to HEAR the 2nd sentence unless we are pretty careful to word it like the first. And that's really not productive.

I think the thing about circumcising is more about right and wrong... I mean, even if circumcising made being AP somehow easier or better - I would still feel it was wrong. But whether someone makes that choice for their children has nothing to do with them being AP or not AP.

[delphiniumpansy]

I think attachment parenting international gets to claim ownership of what defines attachment parenting. And there is no mention there of circumcision, home birth, vaccination, and diapering there for a reason. They are not part of attachment parenting. They may be part of your attachment parenting but not others. And you don't get to disclude someone from the AP club if they do or don't do those thing.

AP is not a check list.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy

I think attachment parenting international gets to claim ownership of what defines attachment parenting. And there is no mention there of circumcision, home birth, vaccination, and diapering there for a reason. They are not part of attachment parenting. They may be part of your attachment parenting but not others. And you don't get to disclude someone from the AP club if they do or don't do those thing.

AP is not a check list.

I just don't understand how anyone could circ - and do AP... Those things just seem so far apart. AP is 'I want to respect my child' - and circ is 'I'm going to cut of a perfectly good piece of my infant for absolutely no reason'. Those things just don't go together.

I think it's safe to say that someone who circs - doesn't start off APing. They might come to AP later. But it just doesn't seem possible for someone to say that they want to be an attachment parent and then circ that child.

[lil_earthmomma]

Well looks like a stepped on a land mine here. I did not write that list, I was just passing on information that was posted in the pregnancy forum. I did not mean to offend anyone or challenge anyones beliefs. I think it's strange how everyone on the pregnancy board was very happy about this info, but on this board I have just been ripped to shreds for something I didn't even create...

Feelin' a little crappy about that people.

Delphiniumpansy, did you write the orginal post in the pregnancy forum? I'm sorry if I was out of line posting that without quoting you, I just thought I was sharing good info... apparently not.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by Kessed

I just don't understand how anyone could circ - and do AP... Those things just seem so far apart. AP is 'I want to respect my child' - and circ is 'I'm going to cut of a perfectly good piece of my infant for absolutely no reason'. Those things just don't go together.

I think it's safe to say that someone who circs - doesn't start off APing. They might come to AP later. But it just doesn't seem possible for someone to say that they want to be an attachment parent and then circ that child.

Just because you don't understand how someone could circumcise their child and "do AP" doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Check out the huge thread in the Circ board from mamas who circ'd their infants and came to regret it later. Plenty of self-described AP mamas there.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by ShadowMom

Just because you don't understand how someone could circumcise their child and "do AP" doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Check out the huge thread in the Circ board from mamas who circ'd their infants and came to regret it later. Plenty of self-described AP mamas there.

You didn't read my post.

I said that I understand people who regret circing their sons can become APs.

But I don't think it's possible for someone, before the birth of their child, to say "I'm an attachment parent - and I'm going to circ". That just doesn't seem to work. It's flawed. How could it possibly be respectful to chop off a baby's foreskin?

[Ann-Marita]

Originally Posted by Kessed

I think it's safe to say that someone who circs - doesn't start off APing. They might come to AP later. But it just doesn't seem possible for someone to say that they want to be an attachment parent and then circ that child.

[mackysmama]

And, again, I'll say that this is NOT an AP board it is a Natural Family Living board that has a firm stance on circumcision.

[lil_earthmomma]

Ladies! I don't think the orginal post was stating that circ. is a good thing or in line with natural family living or AP practices, she was simply stating that those things don't define AP.

So many mom's feel like they aren't ap because they aren't "crunchy" enough or don't do enough things on a certain checklist, and I know that's not what it's about. I hope that's not what it's about.

Why did this have to become something nasty?