AP and the 7b's - Page 2

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

Ladies! I don't think the orginal post was stating that circ. is a good thing or in line with natural family living or AP practices, she was simply stating that those things don't define AP.

And some of disagree. I don't think that circ could possibly be inline with AP. So - from that, people who actually do AP wouldn't circ.

[lil_earthmomma]

Ok, I get it. This thread has devolved into a circ debate.

Well, I personally don't think that circ. is ap... but why is that what is being focused on. What the person I was quoting was getting at imho was that these things are not the definers of ap practices, and if someone has circ'd they can still be ap, or become ap, or practice ap in the rest of their lives.

I really did not intend to start something ugly, but it has become pretty ugly. And I think everyone here agrees that circ is bad and harmful etc. so why is it an issue?

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

Ok, I get it. This thread has devolved into a circ debate.

I don't think that anyone is arguing in favor of circ.

I think the discussion is a good one. I know a woman who circed (not very common where I live - Canada). In her opinion it was such a small thing, and done so early on in life, that it has no impact on where she's AP or not.

I disagree with her. I think that having no remorse over so willingly mutilated her
son really means that fundamentally she hasn't embraced the ideas behind AP.

I guess I think that until someone understands and admits that circ is wrong - they aren't able to be AP.

So of course the reverse of that is that NOT circing is integral to AP. Why do you disagree with that?

[lil_earthmomma]

I disagree with condemning someone in such a way. I personally think circ is wrong and would not circ, but do believe that someone could circ their children and be ap. What about Jewish or Muslim mothers? Are they unable to be ap, or to be ap they have to reject their religious beliefs and practices?

Aurgh, I can't believe I'm debating this. I was trying to post something interesting that someone ELSE wrote to us in the pregnancy board, and it's totally blown up in my face. I'm so sorry I copied and pasted someone elses ideas! You all have no idea how sorry.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I disagree with condemning someone in such a way. I personally think circ is wrong and would not circ, but do believe that someone could circ their children and be ap. What about Jewish or Muslim mothers? Are they unable to be ap, or to be ap they have to reject their religious beliefs and practices?

Do you actually want me to answer that?

I guess I believe that my MIL was AP. She circed her first boy (my DH). However, after she knew that it's hadn't been a good thing to do. So my BIL is intact. That - I put forward as the AP approach to circ. I still think that they go together.

A mother who continues to circ multiple babies isn't AP until she stops. IMO.

Aurgh, I can't believe I'm debating this. I was trying to post something interesting that someone ELSE wrote to us in the pregnancy board, and it's totally blown up in my face. I'm so sorry I copied and pasted someone elses ideas! You all have no idea how sorry.

Maybe you should post what you think rather than what someone else thinks. You'd probably get in less trouble.

[lil_earthmomma]

I'll never do it again, I promise! Phew, I just thought to 7b's were an interesting concept, but boy! I sure opened a can of worms with the circ talk!!!

I agree with you that it is sad when people are blind to the way their choices effect their children. BUT... I am the first person in my family to not circ. and it has been a painful painful process. My families religious beliefs dictate that they circ. but I believe that my mom is a wonderful example of ap. Fortunately for her, none of her sons were severely harmed by the procedure, and she thinks it was nothing. They didn't even cry according to her. Of course, we know better and know why they didn't cry, but that isn't the point. I guess I'm trying to say that I think it's really wrong to judge someone and say they can't be AP because of one thing. People are human, and try to live up to an ideal, and always fail in some way. That's the nature of humanity isn't it? To follow an ideal as closely as possible, knowing we aren't perfect?

[Kessed]

I agree with you to a point.

But I think that just like the 7B's lead a parent towards AP - so does the idea of respecting your child. And that's why I would argue that the idea of no circ should be on the list too. It should be one of the ideals that APs strive for.

I think that the 'list' for AP is very long - and you need to pick what works for your child/family. And some ideas should be weighted more heavily than others. No circ should be given a very heavy weight IMO - so should breastfeeding and listening to your baby's cues. Things like baby wearing and 'bedding close to baby' are going to be more dependent on the individuals.

[lil_earthmomma]

I agree with you. Somethings are more important than others, and respecting your child is definitely very important. This is why dh and I decided not to circ, out of respect for our child's body.

Thanks for helping to end this on a positive note mama.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I agree with you. Somethings are more important than others, and respecting your child is definitely very important. This is why dh and I decided not to circ, out of respect for our child's body.

Thanks for helping to end this on a positive note mama.

No problem. I think that alot of good comes out of discussion.

[angelcat]

Originally Posted by Kessed

I agree with you to a point.

But I think that just like the 7B's lead a parent towards AP - so does the idea of respecting your child. And that's why I would argue that the idea of no circ should be on the list too. It should be one of the ideals that APs strive for.

I think that the 'list' for AP is very long - and you need to pick what works for your child/family. And some ideas should be weighted more heavily than others. No circ should be given a very heavy weight IMO - so should breastfeeding and listening to your baby's cues. Things like baby wearing and 'bedding close to baby' are going to be more dependent on the individuals.

So you still leave out women who were unable to breastfeed. Nice.

Ah well, I'm not ap anyway.

[lil_earthmomma]

Well, I think you can bond with your baby if you bottlefeed, and that if you are unable to breastfeed, there is no shame in that. But I'm kind of very much more about respecting your child than calling myself ap. I guess I would call myself loving. And I'm guessing so would you.

[Kessed]

Originally Posted by angelcat

So you still leave out women who were unable to breastfeed. Nice.

Ah well, I'm not ap anyway.

Come on. You must have an awfully big chip on your shoulder. I never said anything about women who aren't able to breastfeed. I think that breastfeeding is VERY high on the AP list. But obviously - a woman who attempted and is unable (for whatever reason) is in a very different position that someone who doesn't care enough to try.

ETA: I think that the desire to breastfeed is a very important part of AP. It doesn't work for some women - for a variety of reasons some better than others. But I think that wanting to BF goes along with AP.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by captivatedlife

But I'm the type of person who think that people put too much stock into being "AP" and less on what makes sense to them.

me too.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Ann-Marita

I think you might find many here disagree with you about no circ being part of AP. Including me.

:

We can even turn it into a "B."

Bodily Integrity.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy

I think attachment parenting international gets to claim ownership of what defines attachment parenting. And there is no mention there of circumcision, home birth, vaccination, and diapering there for a reason. They are not part of attachment parenting. They may be part of your attachment parenting but not others. And you don't get to disclude someone from the AP club if they do or don't do those thing.

AP is not a check list.

One of the tenets of ap'ing on the API website is 'use nurturing touch'...I don't know about you, but taking a knife to any part of a baby is most definitely not 'nurturing touch'.