Toddler and new baby problems--long, but please help!

[forestrymom]

I'm not sure where the best place to put this is, but here it goes. I am completely at a loss. My dd, just turned 2, hates my new ds, 3.5 months. Here is how a typical day goes:

Baby wakes at 5. I feed him in bed and pray for 10 minutes more, but rarely get it. I get up, change his diaper and pump. If I'm lucky, I get done before toddler wakes up. If toddler wakes up, I have to stop pumping and wait until baby takes a nap. Baby usually goes down at 6 for first nap and sleeps 30 minutes. During this time toddler and I have breakfast and I try to sneak in a cup of coffee. Then baby wakes up. I change his diaper and dd wants up on the bed. I remind her to have gentle hands and put her up there. She gets up and starts mauling him--in his face, knees bouncing off his head, she bounces on the bed for a while until I remind her that she could fall on him, then she is all over him again. I encourage her to read a book--she takes the book and attempts to shove it in ds's face. I take the book away and offer a soft toy to show to him--she hits him in the face with it. After the diaper change, we go to the living room where I nurse. Then we all sit on the floor--so that I can play with the toddler. The baby lies happily cooing and talking to himself, but occasionally I have to talk to him to reassure him and then he is happy again.

BUT, SHE WILL NOT LEAVE HIM ALONE, no matter how much I try to entertain her. She is in his face. Its not always that she is showing aggression, but she gets in his face, literally. I try to show her ways to play with him that aren't so physical--like she can hold the toy out so that he can grab it--instead she takes his hand and pulls him toward the toy, smashing his fingers.

I really do try to find time for just the 2 of us, but he takes very brief naps--20-30 minutes. Both of my kids did this--what am I doing wrong? How do I get him to sleep longer? On days when I do get a longer nap out of him, toddler and I have a much better day.

I got a little off track. I wanted to talk about naptimes. He used to nurse to sleep, but he's gotten a little more tricky--he is completly distracted by any noise she makes. And she does everything she can to wake him up, distract me, make trouble. She will say, "I wake him up...AAHHHHHH." I try to explain that if I get him to sleep we can ahve time together. But I am failing, miserably.

What can I do? I am seriously at my wit's end. I have postpartum depression, and now I'm starting to yell all the time. I know she is sensing my difficulty and probably worried, but what can I do? I am so sad--we used to have the best relationship and I totally feel like I am screwing her up.

[naismama]

Oh (((HUGS))) mama, I don't have a lot of time to write or experience to share, but I have a 29 month old and a 3 month old and I could not read and not respond.

A couple of things. Your dd just turned 2. I know my dd has become a LOT more bearable as she approaches 2 and a half. Really. The past couple of months have really made a difference. I know you need help now. Just trying to give you some hope too

Sleep--poor mama. Good luck with that. My baby has reflux and my toddler doesn't nap. We never sleep here Could your baby have an achy tummy? Have you tried wearing him in a sling? I used to think the mamas on here were exaggerating about the Moby wrap. Really, it's been our savior and often the only way ds will sleep.

You mention "entertaining" her. Do you give her projects and things to do so that she can entertain herself? Set up a pouring station. Let her fold towels out of the laundry? I know my dd is always happier if she feels helpful and productive. Also, of course this gets her away from the baby.

My daughter has adjusted quite well to the baby and calls him "her baby" --very gentle and loving (most of the time). Some things that I think have helped:

-Whenever I dote on the baby in front of dd, I make it about her. "Hi sweet baby, your sister is doing puzzles, yes she is. When you become a big boy you can too." "Come on baby, let's go help your sister potty" etc. Sounds silly, but I get to love up the baby and not leave dd out.

-With many things the baby does, I tell dd that she did the same thing when she was a baby. I describe to her how much I held her, fed her, loved her, etc. It leads her to ask lots of questions and creates a curiosity about the baby.

-I talk to her about how all the things the baby can't do and how she's gonna have to teach him, and what a role model is. I list the things (nak now so i'm abbreviating) and she enjoys talking about them. i think it creates some feeling of responsibility.

I am so sorry this is such a tough transition for you. Hopefully as the baby learns to "do more stuff" and can interact with your dd, things will get better.
(???)

--naismama

[forestrymom]

I do set up play things for her. But she just complains/whines at me to come do it with her. I set up her paints. Mama, paint! Mama, paint! Mama, paint. I sit in the rocking chair and nurse and ask her to bring me a cup of tea (she got a tea set and kitchen for Christmas) and she want me to come cook at the kitchen. I do these things when I can, but I have 2 children now and when I am nursing the baby, I can't cook at her kitchen. We talk all the time about when she was a baby, but maybe I need to do it more. And I emphasize all the time about how great it is to be 2, but I don't want her to think that she isn't my baby anymore either.

I really want to know how I can keep her from being in his space all the time. She is totally not a cuddler--she definitely likes her space. She only hugs when she wants to, and if you try when its not her idea its a fit. But, she can't recognize that he wants/needs the same space. And that when he is happy on the floor and I am playing with her, if she wants it to continue, to leave him ALONE! Is my reaction to it causing it to be worse?

[naismama]

This whole idea that if you leave the baby alone and let him rest (or just let him be) that you and I can spend more time together--I think my dd is JUST starting to get this. I don't know if it's too much of a logical leap for a two year old or what.

You ask if your reaction could be making it worse. What exactly is your reaction? You know how two-year olds always seem to want to do exactly what you tell them NOT to do. Are you focusing on what you want her TO do with regard to the baby?

I totally understand you want to let her know she's your baby too, but have you tried enlisting her in more of a helper role? Sorry you are having such a hard time. Maybe some of the other mamas here can be of more help to you than I could.

--naismama

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by naismama

This whole idea that if you leave the baby alone and let him rest (or just let him be) that you and I can spend more time together--I think my dd is JUST starting to get this. I don't know if it's too much of a logical leap for a two year old or what.

You ask if your reaction could be making it worse. What exactly is your reaction? You know how two-year olds always seem to want to do exactly what you tell them NOT to do. Are you focusing on what you want her TO do with regard to the baby?

I totally understand you want to let her know she's your baby too, but have you tried enlisting her in more of a helper role? Sorry you are having such a hard time. Maybe some of the other mamas here can be of more help to you than I could.

--naismama

You have given me some food for thought, but I would love to hear some other responses. It seems whenever I post about parenting issues I don't get much feed back .

I do react negatively--but I *try* to follow up with a positive replacement behavior. Is it possible I hold the baby too much? I do'nt think so, I mean, he is only 3 months old and just now starting to really interact with his world (grabbing at stuff--he's been smiling for quite a while). He nurses frequently, so we sit down to nurse once an hour, but he doesn't nurse for a long time. I hear all these mothers talking about how great their lo's get along/how much they love each other. What have I done wrong?

[getting_there]

I had similar problems with my children. Mine are 23 months apart. When the younger one was born the older one would do stuff that would made me jump and rescue the younger one and it always seemed like I was trying to "nicely" redirect her. I had to almost set it up so that she thought the baby had to wait for her. It was almost like she wanted to know that the baby didn't always come first. So when the baby would cry I would sit for an extra couple seconds (not minutes but seconds) or read the rest of the page if we were reading together etc. I would also call out to the baby "Mommy is reading to _____ I will be there in a minute" (even if it was just to finish the sentence on the page) It helped make her feel just as important as the baby. I also made her a big helper if she wanted to help. I would ask her if she wanted to get the baby a new diaper if she said yes the praise for being a big helper if she said no I would just say "okay I will do it" without any kind of emotion (good or bad). It is a hard adjustment for siblings sometimes making them seem like they are the important one,while the younger one is too little to know the difference, helps them accept the younger one.
I think many moms go throught this you shouldn't feel liek a failure.

[MamaMamaMama!]

I couldn't read without replying...I don't know how useful I'm going to be but I know how hard it is to be where you are right now. My dd turning about 3 mo was the worst time for us; my ds was 2 1/2. He was miserable, and did not mince any words telling me so. I felt so awful for him, but we did all come out of it okay the two of them (now 2 and 4) get along just fine.

For me it took a while to accept the fact that it is really hard for the older one, and there is only so much you can do to help them adjust. In the end it is something they have to come to terms with themselves, that all of a sudden there is this other person demanding so much of your time that was until recently only theirs. Newborns just sleep and eat, but at three months forward the little one wants to interact with the world and there is no denying their personhood.

I did a LOT of repeating at that stage--telling ds over and over again what to do, what not to do with the baby. It took months but in the end he got it: gentle hands, no taking toys away, trade for something if you want what the baby has, etc. I did take a lot of care to treat them equally even if wasn't really "fair" to the baby to expect her not to grab a toy; even if she didn't even realize what she was doing I would use the same words for her that I used for ds, and I think that really helped his perception of being treated equally. I also did a lot of "Look at ds, baby, he can run/jump/whatever! When you are bigger you can do that, too!" It made ds proud and made him want to show her how to do things. I also never refused ds's request to play with the baby even when I REALLY didn't want to deal with it; it definitely helped their relationship in the long run. I would have them jump on the bed together (holding and jumping dd) or "racing" (again, holding dd) and he loved it.

I second the sling recommendation; my dd didn't leave hers to nurse or sleep until she was 7 mo old and ready to start trying to walk. It got physically painful by the end of the day and nursing standing up isn't fun but it allowed me to tend to the needs of two children at the same time.

Have you had your magnesium levels checked? It is possible that you are low and that is causing the lack of sleep in your ds. You could also try cutting out dairy for a couple weeks and see if that is what is waking him up; my ds was also a horrible sleeper and at age 3 tested intolerant to milk casein and I'm convinced that was his problem as an infant (I did cut out milk for a week when he was a baby but didn't realize I should have done all dairy for much longer to test for a real reaction). Also take fish oil/cod liver oil if you aren't already; it really helps with the blues.

Good luck. This stage where you are now was absolutely the hardest for me and my kids but it does get better, I promise.

[elisent]

I try to focus on what the baby can't do: "Mary, would you like an apple? Sorry, baby, you can't have an apple. You're too little. Only Mary can have an apple."

I would try to make at least one baby nap a mommy-toddler playtime. Put baby down in another room and use a fan to cover noise.

Why is your toddler up at five? Is there too much light coming into the bedroom?

[AllisonR]

Just short. Try reading the NCSS for great tips about getting babe to sleep longer. And I second the pp about the light - get one of those black out fabric things for the window. You can buy the fabric cheap at a fabric store, just cut it and tape/staple/wrap around curtain rod... so you aren't spending time on it.

DS was 25 months when DD was born, and the 1st 5 months were hard. DH had to help out a lot, and spend quality time with DS, or take DD so I could spend quality time with him.

Babies are tough and elastic, and a little in your face and pushing doesn't hurt them. Let the little incidents go. If she gets really rough, then be firm, and find a consequence for her actions. I know some here will disagree, but I had to do that with DS. When it escalated to the point where I was concerned DD would get really hurt, then I was firm, there were consequences. And he got out of that stage quickly.

Instead of saying No, no hitting, slapping.... try to remove her and redirect. Almost ignore the little things if you can, so she isn't getting attention for being in his face. And then when she does something nice, make a really big deal of it. For example, DS heard DD crying, so he ran in, pulled off like 20 paper towels and brought them to her, saying to dry her tears. I could have said don't waste so many towels, or I could have said (and did) "Oh, DS, thank you SOOOO much for bringing her towels. That is JUST what she needed. What a sweet big brother you are." Then she is getting attention for positive things. The PP was also right on about making a deal about what she can do when she starts getting jealous. "Wow, you can ride your bike so well. Baby can't ride a bike."

Most important: It does get better. MUCH better. Wait til baby can interact with dd more.

[forestrymom]

I do use a wrap, but in it he still takes short naps. Toddler has always been early to bed early to rise--they both seem to be that way, no matter what we have tried.

We always do at least one nap toddler time.

There are tons of good suggestions here!

[TranscendentalMom]

When I got pregnant with my 2nd I enrolled my 2 year old ds in a Montessori based preschool 3 mornings a week. I don't know if it would just make things worse for you (some kids have a hard time with serparation), but it was a lifesaver for me. It sounds like maybe your dd is really social? The people I knew with socail kids in the preschool usually loved school because they really crave the interaction. A lot of us that had kids at this little Montessori school had just had babies and it was great cause all the kids their would talk about "their babies" at home. And it gave them a world that was THEIR OWN that had nothing to do with the baby. I think that helped a lot because everything was centered around the baby's schedule at home. Also, even tho it was hard, I got out (story time, playground, playgym, WHATEVER, because if went out my ds would play with other kids and run around and laugh and I could sit and nurse and just watch. So everyday, ds would either go to preschool or we'd be out somewhere, then we'd come home and he'd be more relaxed in the afternoons cause he got some energy out.

Anyway, hugs to you. Having a toddler and a baby was the hardest time of my life. I think having twins might have been easier than trying to juggle those 2 ages. Tehy are equally demanding but difficult to combine, you know? A toddler is active all the time and clumsy and yet a baby is delicate and needs tons of rest and nursing time...then throw in mom's exhaustion and postpartum hormones...how do we all do it? Mine are now 5 year old and 2.5 and all I can say is hang in there. It does get easier, I promise. Actually, their close age was hard in the beginning but now its awesome. They disappear in the playroom and play for hours now! Hang in there!

Edited to add: Somehow I skimmed over the fact that you are also having some PPD. I don't know if there is any way that it is possible for you to get help (mainly someone to watch your daughter but help around the house I'm sure would help too) - from family, friends, paid babysitter, preschool? I had some help and it wasn't enough and now I look back and wish I prioritzed that more. I felt guilty leaving ds because I felt like I was abadoning him for the baby...I was so worried about favoring the baby. I felt like...I'm a SAHM...this is what SAHM do! Juggle things! But in retrospect...it was more important for all of us that we had some help. I wish I'd searched for a mothers helper who could have just come and played with ds in the afternoons. I know most people's response to this is that they can't afford it but I'm here to ask you to take another look at your finances and please consider putting it toward the top of priorites. I know some people interpret AP to mean you are not supposed to have other people take care of your kids but in societies where AP is widely practiced...there is help from the village...sisters, aunts, other mothers, etc. Even if you know someone with an older kid or older kids, maybe they could come over on a regular basis and play with your daughter? If there's anyway possible...you need help. This time will pass and you'll be on your feet again...its like crisis time...survival mode...get all the help you can.

[shooflymama]

Just wanted to say hugs to you, mama .

My kiddos are 23 months apart, and while my oldest didn't appear to be angry about or jealous of the baby, he was still all over DS2. It seemed this was out of love and an intense desire to interact with DS2, but man, it was hard. For a short time, early on, I had to sometimes put DS2 in a papasan, inside a playpen with a cat tent over it (!!!) in order to get anything done and preserve DS2's safety/ability to sleep. if the baby was outside the playpen, he would get poked and prodded and "hugged" and DS1 would hit him with toys he was trying to "give" to him. in the playpen without the tent, DS1 was trying to give him toys by throwing them into the playpen, which was pretty hazardous to DS2.

So I guess I just have three pieces of advice:

1. It took me a little while to realize this, but letting DS1 hold his baby brother more (with lots of help and supervision, of course) really helped. A lot of his actions were just clumsy not-even-2yo attempts at interacting with DS2, and this helped to satisfy some of that desire to interact and helped him to be calmer.

2. DS1 would also climb all over me when I tried to nurse DS2, trying to be with him and with me. I found that I could read a book to him while nursing, with him snuggled against me, and that really helped too. Don't know if this is an issue for you, but just in case.

3. Hang in there - it gets better!!! And sometimes, almost overnight. I remember in the first few weeks wondering how I was ever going to this. It was really hard. And faster than I would have imagined, DS1 got older and more sophisticated about expressing his love and interests in DS2, and also better at listening to us, and simultaneously DS2 got bigger and stronger and less fragile. And life became a lot easier.

Not to say that some days aren't still a little crazy, or that there is no conflict (now that they're older, there are more conflicts about sharing toys, etc. and sometimes each of them can be too rough with the other), but it's different than it was in those early days.

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck!

Edited to add that the boys are great playmates now, too - it's so awesome to see!

[forestrymom]

Originally Posted by shooflymama

Just wanted to say hugs to you, mama .

My kiddos are 23 months apart, and while my oldest didn't appear to be angry about or jealous of the baby, he was still all over DS2. It seemed this was out of love and an intense desire to interact with DS2, but man, it was hard. For a short time, early on, I had to sometimes put DS2 in a papasan, inside a playpen with a cat tent over it (!!!) in order to get anything done and preserve DS2's safety/ability to sleep. if the baby was outside the playpen, he would get poked and prodded and "hugged" and DS1 would hit him with toys he was trying to "give" to him. in the playpen without the tent, DS1 was trying to give him toys by throwing them into the playpen, which was pretty hazardous to DS2.

This is sort of what's happening--but I can't tell how much of it is truly love. She is the same way with other babies, so I know its not all resentment toward the baby but she is a toddler so she is clumsy. Today, I really tried to give her other things to do to interact--so when she wanted to kiss and hug constantly while I was changing his diaper, I gave her a toy to show him--and she ended up hitting him in th ehead with it. It was accidental, but I am so irritated with it being constant. I know its really not fair of me to feel that way, and a lot of it is the PPD doing its wonderful thing. But then, she goes and says she is gonna kiss him while we are nursing and instead she bites him! WTF? Its such a mixed message. So, I don't trust her at all and it just snowballs.

As for the magnesium--I have not had my levels checked but can I take the same mag supplements I took while pregnant, just in case? I live very remote, so doctors are hard to get to and just add another complication.

I so wish preschool were an option, or a mother's helper. I live VERY remote. I might be able to find a helper--we'll see. I just started being a sahm, and things are VERY tight to say the least. Maybe there is some young gal who just wants to come play with the baby, which would give me time with the toddler!

[LilWin]

I was coming online to check a recipe I want to make this afternoon, but saw this and I just have to add my two cents.
My kids are 20 months apart, and a lot of what you describe, happened here also. For DD it is/was a combination of no impulse control (which is normal for her age, but it was sooo hard to stay calm when DS would be hurt every time) + wanting my attention + investigating what a baby is and does.
It drove me nuts! I kept telling her: "please be gentle, his hands only!". I used the hands only rule to hope that she would leave his face alone.
Basically all that you describe has to do with the adjustment of having a sibling and learning how to share mom's attention, IMO. Wanting you to play along with everything, seeing what your response will be when she hits or takes a toy away. Believe me, it takes quite a long time but she will get tired of it. Until then you just have to be on top of her and make sure they're not alone together. You just can't trust her to have the self control to leave him be.
My DS is now almost a year old, and DD will be 3 in May, and it's been only about two weeks where she totally leaves him alone. She will now even do positive things, like give him a piece of her ricecake or get him a toy he just dropped. So it will get better, really!
The naps for baby, I resorted to letting DD watch tv when I went to put the baby down for a nap. It was really the only way I knew she wouldn't get into anything that might be dangerous, or disturb us in the bedroom every 5 seconds, or make a lot of noise that would wake him up too soon. It wasn't my first choice, but it was the only thing that worked for us. DS took a lot of naps during her favorite shows! And I arranged the second nap of the day for baby to be DD's nap too. That would ensure peace and quiet in the house for good sleep and some mommy time!
I'm sorry you have PPD, that's no help to this situation. I hope you have a good doctor that can listen and help you with medication if you decide to use it. Hang in there!

[forestrymom]

I mostly am worried tha I am doing something that will set the two of them up for longterm sibling rivalry, and I want to foster a good healthy relationship as best I can.

She is much the same around my 6 mo niece though, so maybe it is just impulse control/immaturity.

[LolaK]

Originally Posted by forestrymom

I change his diaper and dd wants up on the bed. I remind her to have gentle hands and put her up there. She gets up and starts mauling him--in his face, knees bouncing off his head, she bounces on the bed for a while until I remind her that she could fall on him, then she is all over him again.

What about doing things like not allowing her up on the bed so that she doesn't have the opportunity to bounce on the baby? I don't think you can expect a toddler to be allowed on the bed, be allowed to bounce, but be careful not to bounce on the baby.

Have you read "Siblings without Rivalry"?

[wannabe]

Do you have any video of you caring for her when she was a baby? I think that has really helped my two year old, she loves to watch videos of her baby-self being carried, loved, fed, etc.