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TF and pets - do you feed your pets TF?  

post #1 of 18
1/12/08 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
we are really thinking of getting a puppy and a kitten for our daughter. but its really got me thinking about what i'd feed it. we eat 100% tf ourselves and i couldn't bare the thought of feeding a pet that we would love (hopefully!) from a tin or a packet. but my dh is freaking about feeding a pet organic meat that is fresh and raw and how expensive (ie unaffordable that is!) and would rather settle for the organic tinned varieties - which aren't much cheaper over here. so what do you all do? this has actually got me thinking lots about pets and vaccines and natural health for pets etc!! - i've not much experience with animals we did have a cat when i was a child and to be honest she was amazingly healthy lived 22yrs and was fed on 'whiskers' tinned food and water. dh has had dogs and cats so knows a bit more about them.
post #2 of 18
1/12/08 at 7:38pm
Our cat gets a low-carb tinned cat food plus high-quality crunchies that she generally doesn't eat much. The dog gets a small amount of good-quality partially organic kibble and LOTS of table scrabs, so she eats TF more or less to the extent that we do . And can I just say, a dog is like the BEST thing to have as a clean-up accessory for a 2-year-old.

And we also had a family cat when I was a kid/young adult who lived on heavy cream and cheap food, he lived to be 20 years old despite being an outdoor cat who fought regularly with other cats AND being run over (by me ) at age 15. His jaw never healed properly - he looked like some sort of mutant pirate cat, but he still caught mice and tried to eat them occasionally.

My cat is completely allergic to cows. She barfs if given ANY dairy product OR beef, or cat food containing beef. Weird huh?
post #3 of 18
1/12/08 at 8:06pm
Look into feeding your animals a raw diet. Cats and dogs are carnivorous, and need meat and bone and organs. Feeding them as close as possible to what they would hunt and eat in the wild is very TF. It will probably be too expensive to try to give your animals only grass-fed/free-range, but 100% raw of even factory farmed is better than canned anything and definitely better than kibble.

I've already seen the damaging effects of commercial pet food for my pets and am transitioning them over to raw as we speak. I hope someday to be in a better financial position to afford higher quality meat for my pets, but I'll start with what I can afford for now. Check out the pets forum. There are lots of resources there about raw diets, especially for dogs. I've found these sites helpful too: http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ and http://www.rawfed.com/index.html

Best wishes on the new furry additions to your family!
post #4 of 18
1/12/08 at 8:12pm
We suck it up and feed the more expensive raw diet. It comes frozen in 5 pound logs. I put it in the sink in the morning to defrost, and when I get home from work in the afternoon, I get out a digital scale and measure it out into 1 ounce meatballs on a cookie sheet and flash freeze it in the deep freeze. Here's my take on it though: We have 1 almost 11 year old beagle, a 1.5 year old cat, and a 4.5 month old chihuahua. They all eat the exact same food, since it is a carnivore diet, not a pet food diet.

Dogs and cats are carnivores, and as long as the diet is 100% raw, they can eat the same food. Cooking meat destroys nutrients essential to their health that are usually added back in when manufacturers make it. Whether people like it or not, dogs and cats are carnivores, and won't do their best on vegetarian, vegan, home-cooked, or bagged diets.

Our Beagle almost died 2 years ago, and the vets don't know why. He was in ICU for a week, and was finally sent home to die. Miraculously, he did live.We didn't make the switch to raw for another year after that, but I am glad we did. Any place he has ever gotten an injection, he has developed tumors/cysts. They have slowly started to go away now that he is eating a species appropriate diet.

Do we spend more on food? Yes. But I am convinced that that will be more than offset by what we save not having to go to the veterinarian. We choose not to vaccinate our pets, just like some parents choose not to vaccinate their children. They do get rabies shots, because there is no way around that one. The state keeps track of it when pets are licensed, and our beagle still runs away too often to not be licensed, and our kitty is an indoor/outdoor kitty. Both of them could be picked up by animal control at anytime, and I want them to get right back to us without to many problems.

If pets are fed a healthy, raw, species appropriate diet, then their immune systems will be healthy enough to fight off infections that other pets are vaccinated against.

If you really want to get a puppy and a kitten, go with a smaller breed of dog. THen you don't go through quite as much raw food, making it more "affordable". And think of the money you will save with the vet visits being less often.

Oh, one last thing. Last fall, our kitty was attacked pretty viciously by our neighbors dalmation. We took her to the vet, and they shaved her owies (4 large puncture wounds). We took her home, and because she was on a raw diet, she was healed in a week. No swelling, no infection. She rebounded 3-4 times as fast as other cats involved in dog bites. I tried to give her antibiotics, but gave up because she bit, clawed/scratched and hid when she saw me coming. Never even needed them. That is proof enough for me.
post #5 of 18
1/13/08 at 12:50am
Our two large dogs were fed a high quality but conventional kibble/wet food mix until last year, when one of them developed a horrible, horrible anal gland infection. A huge, solid knot formed inside of her that wouldn't express. After 5 rounds of antibiotics and steroids, we were preparing to do surgery. I switched the dogs to a diet of raw meat and THAT cleared up the infection. Because the infection was so severe, our vet was very concerned that the surgery would likely be the start of the end of my sweet Paisley's life. So I'm totally, totally sold on raw food.

Our local butcher, who sells mainly conventionally raised meat but also does an enormous buisness processing wild game, sells ground meat, organ, and bone scraps as dog food for $1.29/lb. There's a chicken and turkey with bones variety and a wild game (no bones) variety. They also periodically make an organ meat variety from cow tounge, liver, tripe, and heart that they sell for a little more. I also try to get raw bones from cow or bison for them to chew from time to time, and periodically treat them to a meal of straight liver or tripe. Every once in a while I'll add some yogurt to their food to help with gut flora as well.

It is definitely more expensive than traditional kibble. I've made some room in my budget by buying less organic produce for us and using veggie wash instead. Also, if we are very lean in the budget, I keep a bag of very high quailty gluten free kibble on hand in case I just can't buy the meat that week or run out before I can get to the butcher again. I also stretch what we have by grinding leftover scraps from making bone broths. I know a traditional raw foodist would be appalled by this and I can understand the reasoning behind it. However, it's really most important to me that they eat MEAT, and the raw I do the best I can with.

My dogs, BTW, are more vibrant and playful than they have been in years. We are dealing with some allergy issues in our lab that seem to be related to moving to a new house, so I can't say that we are really vet free, but I can tell that the raw diet has made a difference for them.
post #6 of 18
1/13/08 at 4:02pm
I have just started on a raw diet as well for my chihuhua puppy. He eats raw chicken legs, wings, hearts, gizzards, and a bit of liver, very well (not all at once). He LOVES it!
post #7 of 18
1/13/08 at 8:49pm
Does anyone know if turkey necks would be good for a cat? I have a young cat (maybe 6-8 months old) and I saw turkey necks the other day in the supermarket and thought that would probably be a tasty snack for her.
post #8 of 18
1/14/08 at 2:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cortsmommy View Post
I have just started on a raw diet as well for my chihuhua puppy. He eats raw chicken legs, wings, hearts, gizzards, and a bit of liver, very well (not all at once). He LOVES it!
how do you get your dog to eat? i have been trying to convince my dad to put his two chihuahuas on a raw food diet. he always complains that they will never eat and that they ought to be starving cuz he never sees them eat any of the food he puts out for them. he says he's tried to feed them raw food before but they turn their nose up at it. any advice?
post #9 of 18
1/14/08 at 2:57am
My mom makes her own dog food... She uses left over rice, potatoes, tyson (ew) chicken, vegis that are on their way out, and sometimes kefir grains and other leftovers.
One time she was cooking the dog food and left it on tthe stove to go take a shower. Her friend came over and gave himself a big ol' serving of it cause he thought it was stew! He LOVED it.

Once when we were little, she fed it to us for dinner when she was too tired to cook.
post #10 of 18
1/14/08 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equuskia View Post
Does anyone know if turkey necks would be good for a cat? I have a young cat (maybe 6-8 months old) and I saw turkey necks the other day in the supermarket and thought that would probably be a tasty snack for her.
Our cats enjoy them! The bones are quite soft when raw.

We also feed our 4 dogs and 3 cats a raw food diet. As far as budget we give ours a fair amount of conventional meat, but do only organic grassfed organ meat. I just couldn't do conventional liver or kidney knowing what they were exposed to.

We purchase in bulk from the farm we get our meat from. 25lbs for $25 and it's all the "stuff" that's left after proccessing the meat for people. They each get a bit of coconut oil with dinner every night as well. My girls also supplement their diet fairly well with things they really don't need, but I can't fret over a few bits here and there.

We also no longer vaccinate our pets with the exception of rabies.
post #11 of 18
1/14/08 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpenguin View Post
how do you get your dog to eat? i have been trying to convince my dad to put his two chihuahuas on a raw food diet. he always complains that they will never eat and that they ought to be starving cuz he never sees them eat any of the food he puts out for them. he says he's tried to feed them raw food before but they turn their nose up at it. any advice?
Most of ours took to it with no problems. Yay, meat! We did have the one stubborn one who would not touch any raw meat. I was baffled. We went with tough love and I'd only offer raw for days. He wouldn't eat. I tried searing, still raw inside...nope! We even went almost a week once before I couldn't stand it and gave up. Then I discovered he would eat ground meats with no problem. It's not ideal, but it got him started.

Some people turn their nose up at ground meat with the bones and say the dog should chew them. I say, if that's what works, anything is better than the bag.
post #12 of 18
1/14/08 at 11:00am
we have the Pitcairn diet book, which i followed for awhile. the only 'pet' we have now is a mousing cat, Hermione. i dont make her food anymore, i feed her real food from either our table or our scraps. it is supplemented with kelp, eggs, and nutritional yeast. she is one healthy cat! and she is the best mouser/ moler i have ever known. we are truly hoping for kittens from her.

an animal fed naturally often doesnt cause people to be allergic, smells less, and has way less offensive scat.

all of the rest of our animals (chickens, cows) eat what comes naturally to them, supplemented with kelp meal and other natural things to make up for their confinement.
post #13 of 18
1/14/08 at 12:08pm
We feed our cat a raw diet based on the prey model. So we do whole animals where possible (mice, broilers, cornish hens), or 'frankenprey,' where you piece together a whole animal. Chicken legs, beef ribs, lamb kidneys, turkey neck, etc....

I can't afford grass-fed and organic for the cat, so I do supplement to replace the missing nutrients.
post #14 of 18
1/14/08 at 12:31pm
When I first got our cat, all the websites, even the natural ones, talked about the crucial importance of balancing a cat's diet, so that just meat wouldn't be good enough. Am I correct in assuming that because he now spends a good amount of time outdoors (and thus, has access to eat any plant matter according to what he feels he needs), that I don't need to worry about this and can just give him meat in his dish?

If you feed your animal conventional meat, are you concerned about bacteria, since it's raw? I wouldn't think twice about feeding raw pastured meat, but raw factory farmed? What's your take?

Do you just stick the turkey neck or raw egg or whatever in his dish and let him go at it? Or plant it outside? I am so clueless! Thanks for all the great posts in this thread, btw!
post #15 of 18
1/14/08 at 1:06pm
We fed our dog a raw diet for a while - until we moved to a 3rd floor apt and it was not convenient. We had always fed it to him outside because he makes a mess when he eats. Anyway, the raw food was wonderful! He hardly pooped at all anymore and it was much drier and easier to clean up.

We couldn't afford to feed him organic meat, but bought chicken backs from our grocery store meat dpt. They would package them all up into 1-2 lb bags for us so they were all ready for each meal. Dh would stick it in the bowl, add a bit of acidopholus powder, cod liver oil and nutritional yeast (all recommended by our vet) and our dog would have a field day with it. He loved it!

For a dog, eating dog food is akin to us never eating fresh veggies, fresh fruit, fresh meat or raw dairy. Dog food is completely processed. It would be like us eating a completely canned, tv dinner and high heated, oxidized grain diet.

Honestly, if you get something like chicken backs, it's really inexpensive. We have been talking about going back to it as it's much healthier for the dog (now that we are living with a yard again and it's not so inconvenient for us).
post #16 of 18
1/14/08 at 3:09pm
I'm new here, (I've been lurking as a non-member for awhile though) but I finally feel its time to start chiming in.

We have one mostly indoor (he doesn't like the rain and we live in oregon) cat that we have tried, on numerous occasions, feeding a raw meat diet.

The problem is that he HATES all meat that isn't fish (refuses poultry and beef, nibbles at lamb, and prefers tuna over other fish). He's a real finnicky eater over all, ie he turns his nose up to all dairy products except creme fraiche. The only thing that he really can't get enough of is nutritional yeast (we've found him in our cupboard feasting on a whole jar of the stuff) Right now we feed him wet ahi tuna cat food in the morning and organic kibble at night.

Does anyone have any suggestions? What kind of cat doesn't like chicken anyway?
post #17 of 18
1/14/08 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Lex&Cay View Post
Most of ours took to it with no problems. Yay, meat! We did have the one stubborn one who would not touch any raw meat. I was baffled. We went with tough love and I'd only offer raw for days. He wouldn't eat. I tried searing, still raw inside...nope! We even went almost a week once before I couldn't stand it and gave up. Then I discovered he would eat ground meats with no problem. It's not ideal, but it got him started.

Some people turn their nose up at ground meat with the bones and say the dog should chew them. I say, if that's what works, anything is better than the bag.
thanks, i will let my dad know. i think he has tried giving them raw ground beef before but not beef ground with the bones, as it was a portion from beef he was going to be cooking for himself. i think if he did a little tough love and gave the food at 'meal times' and if they didn't eat it then, storing it in the fridge until next time, that maybe they would start eating...but he's a real softie so he tries to bribe them constantly with all those bad doggie treats and such and can't stick it out for a couple of days to see what happens...
post #18 of 18
1/15/08 at 2:47am
We've got 2 cats. One is old & won't eat raw food. He spits up el cheapo cat food as well. I feed him Organix cat food. In the big bags, it works out no more expensive than the science diet or iams. Our other cat is only 1. He was brought up on meat from when he was a kitten. We got him when he was 6 months old. I feed him franken animals - organs, chicken necks, bits of muscle meat & so on. He refuses to eat the other cat's dried food. He also hunts a fair bit as we live in the boonies so he gets lots of baby bunny rabbits at this time of year. If I can find a heavy duty mincer second hand, I am considering trapping the possums out the back to feed him & then mincing them up.

Raw poultry necks btw are very good for cats as they have to use the whole tooth to eat them. A vet told me once that the dried biscuits cause a tartar build up on their gum line as they do not exercise the whole tooth.

I'd also second avoiding the vet vaccines. My healthiest cat to date was totally vax free.
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