I don't know how to react to this but I'm not happy... - Page 3

[wonderwahine]

I really dont care about the facts or research, nor do you need to try and "save" me or my children by posting it.

I will NEVER veiw toys or plastics that way, and will never stop buying them. So you can veiw them how you want, but please, dont be wasteful and just throw them out instead of donating them to people who will actually use and enjoy them.

Also dont look down on people because we don't think the same way as you, we dont need saving and we dont need you to police our purchases or how we should provide for our children.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by verde

Well Mamas, you are absolutely within your rights to buy toys MIC if you so choose. I'm not sure how much more evidence you want that the toys are unsafe or how you can conclude that the fear about toys MIC is overblown or exaggerated.

Consider these facts:

At least 25 million toys MIC were recalled last year

China has some of the worst industrial pollution in the world. Since 2001, the year that began their economic expansion, they have had a 40% increase in the number of children born with birth defects because of the toxic runoff in their streams and rivers and the air pollution.

Korean officials complain that the industrial pollution from China is affecting their country’s air and water.

Factory workers in China work under some of the worst conditions and have few rights. Whistle-blowers are fired on the spot. Workers at some factories have complained that they haven’t been paid in months and the gov’t officials back the factory owners, not the workers.

Although for years preceding the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, Chinese environmentalists complained that the Dam would cause vast environmental damage, they were routinely ignored by the Chinese government. Now that the dam is complete the gov’t has admitted that, yes, the dam will cause a lot more environmental damage than they had originally thought and they will have to relocate 5 million people because of that damage.

The Chinese government has rampant corruption.

If you don't think any of this affects how toys are made in China, well, then I guess no amount of evidence can do that.

Carry on with your choices and peace be with you.

As someone who is chemically sensitive, plastic scares the hell out of me, and I could never with a clear conscience just pawn it off on someone else's child. Anyone who says they think it's bad and then turns around and gives it to someone else is walking a moral tightrope, imo. If you truly don't think there is anything wrong with plastic, and you use it yourself, I don't think you have any moral ambiguity. I can't say I understand it, but at least it isn't hypocritical.

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by Marcimama

I am pondering the same thing. I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better. If I wouldn't want my dd to have them, why would I give them to anyone else??? What should I do with them???

Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."

[karina5]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

If you truly don't think there is anything wrong with plastic, and you use it yourself, I don't think you have any moral ambiguity. I can't say I understand it, but at least it isn't hypocritical.

I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.

Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by karina5

I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.

Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.

we use plastics because they have texture and sensory input that wood just cant provide.

I even have *gasp!* the loud electronic plastic toys!! again, for sensory input.

The only toy we have removed from ds was one of the baby einsten blocks that got recalled, we sent it in, and got the replacement.

[mercy589]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."

Yes. My problem with this whole thread is that most of you are assuming that people who shop at thrift stores are stupid and poor. They BUY the items, they have a CHOICE whether to buy the item or not. By donating you aren't forcing poor children to play with awful toys, you're saying that you don't want these items and giving the other people a chance to DECIDE if they would like to purchase your unwanted, used or not, items, therefore giving the thrift store some money for their good cause, and saving items from the landfil, isn't that the whole idea? Thats the way it works. Poor people aren't forced to shop there, and they probably could do the same things some of us do - get the bigger ticket nice items from Grandparents or pool together money to get the nicer stuff if they wanted to, or search garage sales and thrift shops for what they want (people have found nice wooden toys before, but again, its whatever you personally look for and choose to buy). As nice as it sounds, it would be STUPID to donate nice new wooden toys to thrift stores, who would buy them? It wouldn't be a deal, they'd be overpriced, etc, thrift stores are for recycling peoples used unwanted stuff.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by karina5

I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.

Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.

Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.

That's the dilemma. Do you mail 'em all back to China? Add to the landfill? There isn't a good solution, really. But I would seriously throw them away before I would give them to someone else's kids if I believed they were dangerous, yk?

[ccohenou]

When I donate things to Goodwill, I'm not foisting them upon unwilling poor people. I'm donating them to Goodwill to sell so that Goodwill will benefit and my house will be less cluttered. Should a person also not donate out-of-style clothes, ugly wall hangings, or 20-year-old convention coffee mugs? There's no accounting for taste. If someone wants to buy the stuff, it's a win-win.

If I had something I knew to be dangerous or unfit for human use, I wouldn't donate it. Beyond that, "crappy" is in the eye of the beholder.

[Jessy1019]

Originally Posted by alegna

As long as the sets aren't recalled- yeah, I think you're overreacting. But I still buy MIC stuff. I think the whole thing was overblown.

Seems *really* wasteful to throw all that stuff away just because you think that it might possibly have lead.

-Angela

I agree. I'm not concerned about MIC stuff, and wouldn't even think twice about donating some to a thrift store because I know if I'm not concerned about it, there are other parents out there who are not concerned as well.

Does the store make an effort to check for recalls on donated toys? They should. But beyond that, I'm not in the MIC=evil and dangerous camp, and think it's very wasteful to throw away toys that can be enjoyed by another child.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Nature

For me its more about the attitude...If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude [that perhaps MIC toys should be discarded rather than donated] a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."

I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, then -- the 1st quote above calls people who do donate MIC toys condescending, and the 2nd quote calls people who don't donate MIC toys condescending.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by limabean

I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, then -- the 1st quote above calls people who do donate MIC toys condescending, and the 2nd quote calls people who don't donate MIC toys condescending.

Just goes to show that you can never please ALL of the people ALL of the time...



-Angela

[limabean]

Originally Posted by verde

Well Mamas, you are absolutely within your rights to buy toys MIC if you so choose. I'm not sure how much more evidence you want that the toys are unsafe or how you can conclude that the fear about toys MIC is overblown or exaggerated.

Consider these facts:

At least 25 million toys MIC were recalled last year

China has some of the worst industrial pollution in the world. Since 2001, the year that began their economic expansion, they have had a 40% increase in the number of children born with birth defects because of the toxic runoff in their streams and rivers and the air pollution.

Korean officials complain that the industrial pollution from China is affecting their country’s air and water.

Factory workers in China work under some of the worst conditions and have few rights. Whistle-blowers are fired on the spot. Workers at some factories have complained that they haven’t been paid in months and the gov’t officials back the factory owners, not the workers.

Although for years preceding the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, Chinese environmentalists complained that the Dam would cause vast environmental damage, they were routinely ignored by the Chinese government. Now that the dam is complete the gov’t has admitted that, yes, the dam will cause a lot more environmental damage than they had originally thought and they will have to relocate 5 million people because of that damage.

The Chinese government has rampant corruption.

If you don't think any of this affects how toys are made in China, well, then I guess no amount of evidence can do that.

Carry on with your choices and peace be with you.

I actually agree with you for the most part, and for me the humanitarian issues in China are enough to make me choose to support other countries' economies instead whenever possible, but I just don't make the leap from that philosophy to the idea that donating MIC toys = sinister. For me, it's an issue about which I'm willing to let other families make their own decisions. It sounds like you feel more strongly about the issue than I do -- perhaps your efforts would be better focused toward changing legislation rather than blowing off steam at people who donate MIC toys.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by limabean

I actually agree with you for the most part, and for me the humanitarian issues in China are enough to make me choose to support other countries' economies instead whenever possible, but I just don't make the leap from that philosophy to the idea that donating MIC toys = sinister.

And to take this a step further- if a major concern is not supporting the conditions in China, then wouldn't it be BETTER to keep the goods in the economy? That way people that want them can purchase them USED rather than new. Purchasing new would further increase the exports.

-Angela

[ccohenou]

Originally Posted by Nature

They write it that way because on MDC its a pretty shameful thing to admit that not only do you not really care about boycotting MIC toys, but you also don't care about plastics.

If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.

Then I guess the solution is for people to stop thinking they know what's best for everyone. I'd put money on 90+% of MDC families having one or more plastic toys. We've got lots. My daughter is playing with plastic Duplos right this minute. While watching Diego. I'm not sorry.

Shoot, there is so much more to being a good parent than what substance your toys are made of (unless that substance is maybe heroin, or nitroglycerin), that it's not even really on the radar. I think this is kind of the "grade inflation" that gets promoted here...a concept like "no plastic toys" is espoused by a vocal minority, and bunches of people end up feeling less than because they don't hold to that concept, when in fact the number of people who do hold to it, much less judge others by it, are really very few.

[felix23]

Originally Posted by alegna

And to take this a step further- if a major concern is not supporting the conditions in China, then wouldn't it be BETTER to keep the goods in the economy? That way people that want them can purchase them USED rather than new. Purchasing new would further increase the exports.

-Angela

Yes this. If I buy dd toys (which I don't do too often), I usually buy them at a thrift store. I tell all of my relatives to buy her used toys. I don't have a problem with plastic toys, but I would rather buy them used then new to lessen the impact of toys being thrown away. So I am glad when I find new in package toys at thrift stores.

[lexbeach]

Another option if people have toys that they don't want anymore (because they're plastic, MIC or whatever) is to Freecycle them. I'm not sure how active Freecycle is all over the country, but it is worth looking into to see if there is a group where you live. The main purpose of the group is to keep stuff out of the landfills and to keep people from buying new stuff when someone else would be happy to give them what they want (used) for free. I *love* freecycle. We have benefited from getting things and getting rid of things. And in this type of situation with the toys, you can specifically state, "these toys are made in China, they haven't been recalled *yet* but I don't feel comfortable having my kids play with them." I got rid of all of our Melissa and Doug toys this way, and there were a TON of people who wanted them. I also gave some little plastic dinosaurs (made of questionable plastic that was super off-gassy) to a college student who was looking for little plastic animals for an art project (I wouldn't have felt very good about giving them to a kid).

HTH!

Lex

[tuppence]

Originally Posted by Marcimama

I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better.

Okay, I haven't finished the thread but I had to respond to this...

You're worried about thrifting plastic toys that have not been recalled because someone might buy them because they just don't know any better? Please tell me that's not what you meant, because it sounds incredibly judgemental. I buy plastic toys for my son, as well as wooden and metal, and I'm fully aware of the issues with plastics and MIC. Just because someone doesn't make the same decision you do doesn't mean they're ignorant or foolish.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by felix23

Yes this. If I buy dd toys (which I don't do to often), I usually buy them at a thrift store. I tell all of my relatives to buy her used toys. I don't have a problem with plastic toys, but I would rather buy them used then new to lessen the impact of toys being thrown away. So I am glad when I find new in package toys at thrift stores.

, I hate to buy ds new if i can find it used. toys can last a long time, theres no point in throwing them away.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by ccohenou

Then I guess the solution is for people to stop thinking they know what's best for everyone. I'd put money on 90+% of MDC families having one or more plastic toys. We've got lots. My daughter is playing with plastic Duplos right this minute. While watching Diego. I'm not sorry.

Shoot, there is so much more to being a good parent than what substance your toys are made of (unless that substance is maybe heroin, or nitroglycerin), that it's not even really on the radar. I think this is kind of the "grade inflation" that gets promoted here...a concept like "no plastic toys" is espoused by a vocal minority, and bunches of people end up feeling less than because they don't hold to that concept, when in fact the number of people who do hold to it, much less judge others by it, are really very few.

I like this post, and I tend to agree with you. Honestly, I often wonder how many people are lying when they write their crunchy status everywhere. I stopped feeling guilty for our plastic toys awhile ago when I realized my daughter was not everyone on MDC's daughter... she is mine. And for HER, she loves her plastic toys.

That doesn't mean that others don't try to make me feel less-then when they can though.

[ett]

Not all MIC toys are unsafe and not all made in the US/Europe toys are safe. I think it's fine to donate to a thrift shop as long as it has not been recalled. And many people donate toys that their children have outgrown, so it has nothing to do with the toy not being good enough for their own child.