"Extreme" babywearing (pics I took in N. Thailand) - Page 2

[HarperRose]

Different strokes for different folks.

I thought it was pretty sweet.

As for the child playing with the knife -- well, maybe we'd have less anxiety if we took a different approach to things ourselves.

[happyhippiemama]

I used to swing with DD in my ring sling almost every night when she was first born. It was the only way she'd go to sleep without me having to stand and sway for hours on end.

[moonfirefaery]

I'd rather not see a baby on a bike at all.

Others commended and applauded it, saying it's cool and whatnot. If they have that right, I certainly have the right to do the opposite. I understand that they are not doing it to be cool or AP; that still doesn't change the fact that I think it is unsafe and not ok. I am thankful that I can afford safer ways of transporting my babies, and as I have said REPEATEDLY, I understand that they cannot and that there are cultural differences. It still doesn't make me think that this is okay. I'm not deeming anything appropriate or inappropriate; I'm stating my own opinion, not creating law. Others here have responded saying they think it is appropriate and fine; I have every right to say it's not. So get off my not-crunchy-enough back k? I think babywearing is great and that we could learn a lot from cultures for whom it is second nature; that doesn't mean I think any better of babies on bikes.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by UmmIbrahim

Actually, after I wrote my post, I thought to myself...duh I should of added how we had no right to comment anyway as to what they are doing.

Who are we to deem what is appropriate or inappropriate in any culture but our own...and any attempts on our or anyone elses part is merely a sign of North American cultural imperialism...

Its like how Americans tend to think down on Iranian women wearing chadors...yet, Americans have no right to comment...if you dont know the culture nor are PART of the culture...what right does anyone have to make assumptions and deem what behaviurs or manners of dress are apprioriate or inappropriate.

:

[jul511riv]

awesome pix!

[almadianna]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

I don't think riding a bike with a baby strapped to your back, no protection at all, is comparable to riding in a car with your baby in a carseat. Like I said, I understand the cultural differences and that they cannot afford much. In my perspective, it isn't safe or cool to have a bab on a motorbike at all. I don't need to be explained that others might see it differently, because the pictures are proof enough of that.

i think this shows how little some people understand about how other cultures work.

[almadianna]

Originally Posted by UmmIbrahim

Honestly, id rather see a baby strapped to a parents back on a bike than sitting on the parents lap.
In Iran-a country I go to regularly and have dual-citizenship, EVERYONE uses a bike and normally its mom, dad and 2-3 kids sitting on a tiny little bike! 1 up front on dads lap, 1 in the middle on moms lap and the eldest in the way back, holding on for dear life!
Frankly...its a fact of life there and in many countries that bikes are the normal way for a family to get from site A to site B...cars are too expensive...and from seeing many babies tottering on their moms lap, i'd much rather see them strapped onto their moms as its much safer.

So Id hafta disagree, but only because Ive seen similar situations in real life and while I refuse to "bike" it when in Iran...Its a VERY common occurance...

I agree with you, as someone who regularly travels outside of the country i can tell you that while we are westerns would find this scary or even dangerous it is actually much better than their other options.

[kristinc]

Originally Posted by UmmIbrahim

Honestly, id rather see a baby strapped to a parents back on a bike than sitting on the parents lap.
In Iran-a country I go to regularly and have dual-citizenship, EVERYONE uses a bike and normally its mom, dad and 2-3 kids sitting on a tiny little bike! 1 up front on dads lap, 1 in the middle on moms lap and the eldest in the way back, holding on for dear life!
Frankly...its a fact of life there and in many countries that bikes are the normal way for a family to get from site A to site B...cars are too expensive...and from seeing many babies tottering on their moms lap, i'd much rather see them strapped onto their moms as its much safer.
...

that is how it was in holland also. the babys are in a basket on the front of a bike and it seems very safe to me. They have cars there but people prefer bikes, that is just their way of life, neither right nor wrong. Persoanlly i think the photos are awesome and it reminds us that life goes on without all of the crap that we think we need to raise babies here in the US.

[moonfirefaery]

I think it shows that while I do understand how other cultures work, I am a part of a different culture and thus have a different perspective. Please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I must be ignorant because I have a different point of view.

[The4OfUs]

I guess my objection is based on physics, not on culture.

Crash on motorbike with no helmet/restraint/padding = direct contact with road and potentially other vehicles involved in the crash or driving nearby = likely serious injury, especially head injury.

Crash in car with car seat/restraint/padding/crumple zones = likely no direct contact with road and some degree of shock absorption done by the car, which likely= less severe injury.

I know there are no absolutes and someone can probably come up with several scenarios where a car crash would be worse than a motorbike crash, but I still can't get over the basic mass+acceleration+no protection= BIG ouch.

I'm not saying families who do this are wrong or are bad people, it just makes me worry a lot.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I guess my objection is based on physics, not on culture.

Crash on motorbike with no helmet/restraint/padding = direct contact with road and potentially other vehicles involved in the crash or driving nearby = likely serious injury, especially head injury.

Crash in car with car seat/restraint/padding/crumple zones = likely no direct contact with road and some degree of shock absorption done by the car, which likely= less severe injury.

Have no car with alla that jazz and still need to get around = cultural differences.

Is that physics? Or something else?

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by thismama

Have no car with alla that jazz and still need to get around = cultural differences.

Is that physics? Or something else?

I know that it's often the only option for other cultures - I'm not judging that at all, I swear I'm not - I'm purely addressing the dynamics of a potential accident in both scenarios.

I have ZERO sentiment of "omg they are horrible!" or, "what are they thinking?" or, "how uneducated" because I have NO idea what their lives are like and the choices families in other areas of the world have to make on a daily basis.

I'm simply saying that the liklihood of being injured in an accident while unrestrained and unprotected while riding on an open motorized vehicle seems significantly more likely than while riding restrained in a closed motorized vehicle. And that is a concern that comes into my head.

[thismama]

Well, you are very right IMO. It is much more dangerous. They don't have the luxuries we do, that is simple fact. But it's a bit... offensive... for us to sit around talking about how much more dangerous it is, and OMGZ!! etc, IMO. Reality is we have different/safer/cushier choices here so we are easily scandalized relatively speaking. It's rich people sitting around gabbing about how alarming are the choices of the poor, while sipping lattes on the terrace. Kwim?

[dove]

awesome pics, mama! looks so beautiful and laid-back there!!!

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by thismama

Well, you are very right IMO. It is much more dangerous. They don't have the luxuries we do, that is simple fact. But it's a bit... offensive... for us to sit around talking about how much more dangerous it is, and OMGZ!! etc, IMO. Reality is we have different/safer/cushier choices here so we are easily scandalized relatively speaking. It's rich people sitting around gabbing about how alarming are the choices of the poor, while sipping lattes on the terrace. Kwim?

Yeah, I guess there's no way around that, is there? Can you discuss the danger or merit of something without judging it? I mean, it's not really a "choice" is it, if it's the only way you have to get your family around...but that doesn't make it any less dangerous.


ETA: Thinking more, why can't we talk about something being dangerous without judging the people who are doing it? Perhaps not from an OMGZ way, but a "man, that sucks" way.

[wildmama]

I am confused as to when human beings were denied the right to question or criticize something just because it's an integral part of a foreign culture or something necessitated by that culture? Apartheid was an integral part of South African culture, Sharia is an integral part of many Arab cultures. Female genital mutilation is an integral part of cultures around the world. We most certainly have the right to express dismay at those practices, as we do at riding on a motorcycle with a baby strapped to your back, if we, in our own unique (albeit western--gasp!- anything but that!) perspective feel dismay about it.

The pictures were beautifully shot and can and should be appreciated as art and as a view into the part of the world where the OP is living. Thanks for showing us, clearly they were of interest.

But to any of us who are saying somehow others don't have the right to be critical or question the safety or advisability of the practices depicted, I don't get that. I say critical thought is great and I applaud it.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

Yeah, I guess there's no way around that, is there? Can you discuss the danger or merit of something without judging it? I mean, it's not really a "choice" is it, if it's the only way you have to get your family around...but that doesn't make it any less dangerous.


ETA: Thinking more, why can't we talk about something being dangerous without judging the people who are doing it? Perhaps not from an OMGZ way, but a "man, that sucks" way.

Well to talk about how much more dangerous it is, is to me stating the obvious. And it's just the tip of the iceberg... our shock and horror at something as simple as how most people transport themselves and their children really just speaks to how sheltered we are here in the First World, yk? The OP said most ppl are happy to get a bowl of rice each day. It's a different life.

And when you look at how we hoard too many resources and how we have actively created the poverty that exists in the Third World to benefit ourselves, it makes it all the more ridiculous to talk about dangers there, yk? It would be like someone coming in and stealing all my stuff and then sitting around with their friends making observations about how I don't have this, don't have that, etc. Absurd, kwim? I would find it wrong whether they were clucking in judgment or remarking about 'poor her, how sad.' Either way it's ironic in a very deeply twisted way, yk?

[Arwyn]

Hm. I just thought it was supercool to see a man wearing a baby. (My - male - partner does most of the babywearing around here, but that seems to be an exception.)

And a quick moderator reminder to keep this very interesting discussion on the objective level. Please refrain from offering or taking personal offense, and if you wish to report a post, please PM me, as lilylove is on personal leave at the moment. Thanks.

[gcgirl]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I guess my objection is based on physics, not on culture.

:

Physics isn't a cultural phenomenon.

[e.naomisandoval]

I just skimmed over the controversy. I am not gonna judge. I just love the photos. And I was recently told a story by a friend who had to do some "emergency" babywearing. In her situation, what else could she have done? In a nutshell, she was ditched and all she had was a pouch. To get to where she would be picked up, she had to scale a 20' wall. She put the baby in the pouch. Not the ideal carrier for the job at all but in a situation like that, there are no other options and thank goodness she had that carrier.

When I see those photos, I am glad the baby is strapped on instead of just being held.