Hope this isn't TMI, but really need some second opinions.... - Page 3

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Ron_Low

Foreskin feels REALLY good.

lol, I am sure they do.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Blooming

I'm with you up until where you stated that a man should never attempt to restore unless he doesn't feel whole. My DH is a beautiful man who I will love with or without a foreskin. We have been together for 14 years, for 14 years I have gradually suffered more and more in silence.

I am in physical pain. I have no desire to be with him. Not because he is not sexy, or because I don't love him but because at this point I feel very scared and defensive of my body. If we would like to remain together for another 14 years I'm thinking we'll have to have sex again.

My husband will not be guilted into anything. I showed him some of the info I have seen; now it is up to him.

On the other side of is I will not continue to put myself in the position of the suffering wife anymore. We will continue to try this option and others to help me. And really ultimately him too because he is such a wonderful husband that he cannot bear the thought of putting me in pain to achieve an orgasm.

Wow, there is so much to respond to from everyone. First, a lot of people missed all the "I"s in my post. I never said a man should only restore because of the reasons I stated. I said that I (as in me personally) would only have the modivation to restore for the reasons I mentioned.

I also think that both sides of a couple should consider each other feelings on this issue. Although its not "fair" that a wife have to have pain during sex, its also not fair that the husband had part of his penis cut off. Restoration is major body modification, and should ONLY take place if the man wants to do it deep down inside, otherwise he either will simply not be able to stick with it, or he will develop emotional, and further body image problems if he is pressured into altering his body in a way he really didnt want.

gabysmom617- I am well aware of the process of restoration, I have been on many sites dealing with the issue, and have talked to guys who were in the process of restoring. I am well aware that I could have more sensation if restored. But I guess you did not understand what I said. I said those reasons are not enough for me to go through long term body modification process. I know if I ever were to restore, the only reason I would be able to stick with it, is because of the reasons I stated.


No woman should be forced to go through painful sex if that something that happens with their husband. But no husband should be forced to alter their body if thats not what they want. They already had their body altered because of the pressure of loved ones. Its not fair for them to have to go through that again. All I am saying is restoration is major body modification, and any choice to do so should be a mentally healthy decision.

[gabysmom617]

Originally Posted by perspective

Wow, there is so much to respond to from everyone. First, a lot of people missed all the "I"s in my post. I never said a man should only restore because of the reasons I stated. I said that I (as in me personally) would only have the modivation to restore for the reasons I mentioned.

I also think that both sides of a couple should consider each other feelings on this issue. Although its not "fair" that a wife have to have pain during sex, its also not fair that the husband had part of his penis cut off. Restoration is major body modification, and should ONLY take place if the man wants to do it deep down inside, otherwise he either will simply not be able to stick with it, or he will develop emotional, and further body image problems if he is pressured into altering his body in a way he really didnt want.

gabysmom617- I am well aware of the process of restoration, I have been on many sites dealing with the issue, and have talked to guys who were in the process of restoring. I am well aware that I could have more sensation if restored. But I guess you did not understand what I said. I said those reasons are not enough for me to go through long term body modification process. I know if I ever were to restore, the only reason I would be able to stick with it, is because of the reasons I stated.


No woman should be forced to go through painful sex if that something that happens with their husband. But no husband should be forced to alter their body if thats not what they want. They already had their body altered because of the pressure of loved ones. Its not fair for them to have to go through that again. All I am saying is restoration is major body modification, and any choice to do so should be a mentally healthy decision.

Well then, I agree with you, and no I didn't misunderstand what you said:

But I guess I get very defensive when I hear about wives asking their husbands to restore.

I just hope you don't think that: wife talking about restoration to their husbands = wife forcing husband to do so. I don't think anyone here would agree with a wife/woman forcing her man to alter his body. I understand that when an individual is defensive about a particular subject anyway, perhaps, there are times when the subject is discussed that the individual will read what is in his/her mind into the discussion instead of the words that have actually been spoken.

So I guess what I really was "saying" is "I hope he is doing this because this is something HE really wants, and not just something he has been guilted into or just a sacrifice he is making for her.

I don't know, maybe you didn't really understand what I said, or maybe you glossed over the part about what I said about the serious ramifications (beyond just pain) that some of the more aggressive circ's can have on the woman's body. I didn't see you acknowledge that in your last post. A wife talking about that with her husband if she feels that it may be something that she may face does not = her "guilting" him into it, if that's what you're assuming.

[MomToKandE]

I don't know if it will help your issue or not but these are the best, most comfortable condoms we've tried: http://www.pleasureplus.com/

[njeb]

Perspective, another thing to consider is that, as a young man, you have plenty of sensation now. But will it be that way when you get older? Many of the men who started restoring did so because they were starting to lose all sensation, to the point of becoming impotent. Foreskin restoration reversed the situation, and they are now functional again. This is something to think about 20 or 30 years from now.

[Greg B]

Perspective: The reason that the response to you were as they were is due to the complexity of the issues, I think. The devils is in the details as they say. It is not just what the man wants. It is not just what the woman wants. And our society is so inhibited that it is very difficult and threatening to discuss.

I agree that no man should be forced or manipulated to restore against his wishes. No way it will happen if he is not on board with it anyway, but it should not be done in that way.

But a woman should be able to discuss sex with her husband. Communication is absolutely critical to marriage success. And I would hope that she can also share with him things she finds out and would like to try with him.

There is also a case to be made that a man should not restore against the wishes of his wife. Similar to saying a guy should not simply go out and get a vasectomy without his wife being in on the discussion. Anything that has the potential to affect them both (and of course the children) should be done based on a joint discussion.

The real key in my mind is how it is discussed and done. The context. If she is supportive, sharing, and providing information and suggesting something that she believes could improve their lovemaking, why not? I would welcome that.

Of course I might be threatened, unable to deal with it, etc. So she has to know when to stop too. And then maybe bring it up again later, perhaps from a different perspective or new information. And maybe it is a non starter. Some people have hard limits regarding some things. Sometimes hard limits change.

Each person must go at their own pace. Some may decide to do it, some may not. But you should be able to communicate and discuss these things together.

Regards

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

I don't think it's possible to "force" an adult man to restore, of course, it's his body and his choice BUT neither should a woman be expected to put up with painful sex just to preserve her partner's ego, since it's her body and her choice what gets done with it. If his circumcised penis is causing her pain, chances are that sex just isn't going to happen, and surely it's to his benefit to help find a solution to the problem?

Most men who start restoring believe the result will be better orgasms and that's about it. Once they are fully involved in the process for some time, they realize they are feeling a wide range of sensations they have not experienced before. Those are sensations they did not anticipate.

They also realize that sex is becoming incrementally more comfortable and rewarding for their partner and the result of this is the partner wants sex in increasing frequency.

It's a win/win situation and an incentive to continue restoring.

.

[jessjgh1]

I think this is a hugely difficult subject to bring up in a relationship because, #1, it is difficult, may lead to defensiveness or simply be rejected AND #2, it is REALLY hard to really feel comfortable blaming circumcision on certain problems that one may be encountering.... especially as there is very little information about this and it is usually reject by both medical professionals and 'sexperts'.

Maybe some times someone will tackle this issue, perhaps as the tide continues to turn.... but as of yet, it is a bit of a secret/mystery. And as sexuality is hugely complicated it is just really hard to know which issues are completely circumcision related... especially on a forum such as mothering, when many of us are experiencing the (hopefully) temporary effects that pregnancy, birth and child-raising have on our sexual relationship(s).

No one should have to decide whether or not they are going to just deal with the pain or deal without the intimacy, but that's often how if feels. It takes many a while to realize how 'just dealing' really doesn't help the situation either, as the partner usually recognizes something is amiss.

Jessica

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Perspective: The reason that the response to you were as they were is due to the complexity of the issues, I think. The devils is in the details as they say. It is not just what the man wants. It is not just what the woman wants. And our society is so inhibited that it is very difficult and threatening to discuss.

I agree that no man should be forced or manipulated to restore against his wishes. No way it will happen if he is not on board with it anyway, but it should not be done in that way.

But a woman should be able to discuss sex with her husband. Communication is absolutely critical to marriage success. And I would hope that she can also share with him things she finds out and would like to try with him.

There is also a case to be made that a man should not restore against the wishes of his wife. Similar to saying a guy should not simply go out and get a vasectomy without his wife being in on the discussion. Anything that has the potential to affect them both (and of course the children) should be done based on a joint discussion.

The real key in my mind is how it is discussed and done. The context. If she is supportive, sharing, and providing information and suggesting something that she believes could improve their lovemaking, why not? I would welcome that.

Of course I might be threatened, unable to deal with it, etc. So she has to know when to stop too. And then maybe bring it up again later, perhaps from a different perspective or new information. And maybe it is a non starter. Some people have hard limits regarding some things. Sometimes hard limits change.

Each person must go at their own pace. Some may decide to do it, some may not. But you should be able to communicate and discuss these things together.

Regards

Greg and Jess both hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything you guys said, and have from the start. Its just a complex issue to get into.

And I think Jess also pointed out something important. That we really do not have enough studies to explain if some sexual health issues related to men are directly caused by circumcision. Also you cant say, the older men get the less they feel to the point where they feel almost nothing. I know my Dad still has sex with my Mom and enjoys it. Also on of my friends Dads (who is cut) and in his 50's, and single has lots of enjoyable sex (I only know any of that because his dad talks about that kind of stuff with him)

So in this discussion you cannot just put down universal stamps on everything, and relate it all to circumcision. People are different, circumcisions are different, and genitals are going to be different (on both men and women).

I was just trying to explain why this was so sensitive for me. Maybe this is hard to understand if you haven't been circed. But cant you understand why I would be sensitive over an issue of trying to get a man to alter their genitals for someone else, when thats exactly what already happened to them once in their lives?

But its true, improved function can probably be seen with restoration. And yes, if a wife is feeling pain during sex, ANYTHING that could resolve that, should be discussed. I have been in one 2 and a half year relationship. I dont know a lot about REALLY long term relationships. But I do know its about communication, and without it, everything will fall apart. I am not against that, I hope that is also clear.

[gabysmom617]

I just got off or work, and am exhausted, and I dont' feel like digging up the educating studies this evening,

But I will say that many of the problems that women deal with during sex and later in life after years of sex with a circ'ed man (especially a circ'ed man with a particularly aggressive circ) are foreign to women who have had an intact partner for years, and in countries where intact-ness is the norm.

I don't know many men, younger or older, who are going to admit to each other the problems in their sex lives. What I know comes from anti-circ doctors who have dealt with older men with problems, not sex-story here-says. (Why does Enzyte and other impotency drugs sell so well in the US and not in other non-circ countries? Sure, not every older gentleman needs it, but you can't discount the higher rate of sell in circ'ed areas vs. largely intact areas. It's much larger than random "you-can't-be-certain/not-every-set-of-genitals-are-the-same coincident...)

Personally, within the limits of the facts that every circ is different and every set of genitals are different, I feel that more issues could be related to the circ than you are willing to admit to yourself, but it's not uncommon for many circ'ed men to put on the rose colored glasses and live life that way.

I'm pretty sure that at this point, it would be a waste of my time to present to you the studies and facts proven just how detrimental circumcision can be to both men, and women, after years of long term relationships, so we are going ot have to agree to disagree.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by gabysmom617

I just got off or work, and am exhausted, and I dont' feel like digging up the educating studies this evening,

But I will say that many of the problems that women deal with during sex and later in life after years of sex with a circ'ed man (especially a circ'ed man with a particularly aggressive circ) are foreign to women who have had an intact partner for years, and in countries where intact-ness is the norm.

I don't know many men, younger or older, who are going to admit to each other the problems in their sex lives. What I know comes from anti-circ doctors who have dealt with older men with problems, not sex-story here-says. (Why does Enzyte and other impotency drugs sell so well in the US and not in other non-circ countries? Sure, not every older gentleman needs it, but you can't discount the higher rate of sell in circ'ed areas vs. largely intact areas. It's much larger than random "you-can't-be-certain/not-every-set-of-genitals-are-the-same coincident...)

Personally, within the limits of the facts that every circ is different and every set of genitals are different, I feel that more issues could be related to the circ than you are willing to admit to yourself, but it's not uncommon for many circ'ed men to put on the rose colored glasses and live life that way.

I'm pretty sure that at this point, it would be a waste of my time to present to you the studies and facts proven just how detrimental circumcision can be to both men, and women, after years of long term relationships, so we are going ot have to agree to disagree.

I can say for a fact that I am much more aware of the negative effects of circumcision to a level you will NEVER be able to understand. I dont mean to be rude here, but I have spent a number of years dealing and accepting things about my body, and you are not understanding what I am saying AT ALL if you think I am looking at things with "rose colored glasses".

Of course circumcision causes lots of negative effects, but it does not cause everything. There was a time I wanted to blame everything on being cut, but once I got passed the anger stage, I started to see the full complexity and randomness of its effects. Sometimes those reactions are bad, but not all the time, they may even be good on occasion.
Life's not fair sometimes, but we deal with what were given. We build our lives with others, others with their own issues. We reach, we twist, squeeze, all at the same time, and so in the end we compromise a bit. Because we want others in our lives, and know they want resolution too.

I dont mean to cause drama, and I am sorry for that. I guess my out stretched hand has bumped into a few of yours. Are reasons for being apart of this movement may conflict at times. But we can all agree, that all babies no matter if the effects are good or bad, have the right to their full genitals. And that all people should have the right to have control over their own body, at any point in life.

[gabysmom617]

Originally Posted by perspective

I can say for a fact that I am much more aware of the negative effects of circumcision to a level you will NEVER be able to understand. I dont mean to be rude here, but I have spent a number of years dealing and accepting things about my body, and you are not understanding what I am saying AT ALL if you think I am looking at things with "rose colored glasses".

Ok, I"m trying to figure out when anyone was talking about your body personally, and when we stopped talking about the circumcised body in general. 1) Circumcision does not affect all genitals the same way. 2) You still are in the younger, spring time phases of life. What you have accepted about your body now may change 20 years from now. I understand that this is a very sensitive topic for you, and that many things you are looking at being taken personally, when I never meant them about your own body, I was talking about the majority of circ'ed men. There are ones that fall outside of the majority, on the fringes. I don't know where you fall, but it's clear that you may have took my posts as stepping on your toes. I remember mentioning clearly looking at the population of circ /uncirced nations as a whole, not at individual men. I apologize if that was taken into the wrong context.

Originally Posted by perspective

Of course circumcision causes lots of negative effects, but it does not cause everything. There was a time I wanted to blame everything on being cut, but once I got passed the anger stage, I started to see the full complexity and randomness of its effects.

Once again, I'm trying to scroll through my posts and trying to search through where I said EVERYTHING was caused by circ. ...I cant' find where I said that. What I DID say was that many things are caused by circ that people (including yourself) are willing to admit to themselves. There is proof in that, not just "well, it can't be possible, because I know this guy or that guy", but actually, on-paper-studies-done proof that the problems that many people deal with sexually here are not dealt, or dealt with very rarely in intact countries. When that ever converted to "everthing we deal with is NEVER dealt with in intact countries", I don't know.

I see that you are taking this very personally and to heart, but I will say again, I dont' know what you have dealt with yourself that you have blamed on circ, but I'm sure, as you've haven't even had an extremely long term relationship yet, then we can't possibly talking about the same circumcision-related issues.

Originally Posted by perspective

Sometimes those reactions are bad, but not all the time, they may even be good on occasion.

Well, here is one of the issues that we have to agree to disagree on. Absolutely, positively, nothing good comes from circumcision, and no one will ever make me feel different on that.

Originally Posted by perspective

Life's not fair sometimes, but we deal with what were given. We build our lives with others, others with their own issues. We reach, we twist, squeeze, all at the same time, and so in the end we compromise a bit. Because we want others in our lives, and know they want resolution too.

Ok!

Originally Posted by perspective

I dont mean to cause drama, and I am sorry for that. I guess my out stretched hand has bumped into a few of yours. Are reasons for being apart of this movement may conflict at times. But we can all agree, that all babies no matter if the effects are good or bad, have the right to their full genitals. And that all people should have the right to have control over their own body, at any point in life.

I don't mean to cause drama, either, I don't usually participate in threads that get me passionately wound up. (I took a long break from the circ forum, one of my more stronger passions. )

We talk about how babies are best left whole, so they can make their decision themselves when they are of age, etc etc etc. We sometimes talk about how men have sexual problems as a result of circ, we talk about aids, etc etc etc. Those are known issues. And yes, the MOST IMPORTANT issues to be discussed. But people want to push the problems that women can face as a result of a man's circ under the rug, because "it's not her penis" and "just lube it up, you'll be fine" and "DON'T YOU EVER MAKE ME FEEL LIKE THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH MY PENIS!!" and "Well, we can't be sure it's because of circ", and "My wife never mentions it to me", and etc etc etc, I could go on forever.

All I EVER disagreed with you about was that the fact that the problems women deal with ARE THERE, and yes, a lot of them are a result of the circ'ed penis. These are not things that I think, but things that I have been shown proof of.

But we CAN however, agree that babies should indeed be left whole!

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by perspective

Greg and Jess both hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything you guys said, and have from the start. Its just a complex issue to get into.

And I think Jess also pointed out something important. That we really do not have enough studies to explain if some sexual health issues related to men are directly caused by circumcision. Also you cant say, the older men get the less they feel to the point where they feel almost nothing. I know my Dad still has sex with my Mom and enjoys it. Also on of my friends Dads (who is cut) and in his 50's, and single has lots of enjoyable sex (I only know any of that because his dad talks about that kind of stuff with him)

I would just like to make one point on this aspect. I was in my late 40s when I found out about restoring. There was absolutely no way you could convince me that I had lost any sensation or feeling in sex. there was absolutely no way you could make me understand sex could be better. Intellectually I could accept it, but I could not understand how it could feel any different or better.

As I began to restore, I was continually suprised at the new feelings. The better feelings. Different feelings. So was my Wife. And She was more a doubting Thomas than me.

I also realized how much easier it was to reach climax and get good feelings. This caused me to think back more carefully and as I did I realized that I had actually lost a lot of sensation. It had become more work to reach climax. The reason I did not see it earlier, was it sneaks up on you. It is incremental. A good anaology is when a freind comes to visit after a long time away and the remark on how big your kids have gotten. Or your puppy. Or anything else that you don't see so well because you live with the small day to day changes.

So I have little confidence that a 50 year old can see the losses that are occurring. They most likely cannot. I couldn't. It takes careful observation and a very objective observer, which most people are not in my expereince. Or a sudden major change, a paradigm shift, a sea change event like I had.

Regards

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I would just like to make one point on this aspect. I was in my late 40s when I found out about restoring. There was absolutely no way you could convinve me that I had lost any sensation or feeling in sex. there was absolutely no way you could make me understand sex could be better. Intellectually I could accept it, but I could not understand how it could feel any different or better.

As I began to restore, I was continually suprised at the new feelings. The better feelings. Different feelings. So was my Wife. And She was more a doubting Thomas than me.

I also realized how much easier it was to reach climax and get good feelings. This caused me to think back more carefully and as I did I realized that I had actually lost a lot of sensation. It had become more work to reach climax. The reason I did not see it earlier, was it sneaks up on you. It is incremental. A good anaology is when a freind comes to visit after a long time away and the remark on how big your kids have gotten. Or your puppy. Or anything else that you don't see so well because you live with the small day to day changes.

So I have little confidence that a 50 year old can see the losses that are occurring. They most likely cannot. I couldn't. It takes careful observation and a very objective observer, which most people are not in my expereince. Or a sudden major change, a paradigm shift, a sea change event like I had.

Regards

I did not say that there was no negative health effects to circumcision, yes a 50 year old may not notice small changes over time, but they will notice if they are enjoying sex and/or able to "keep it up". I am not saying middle aged men dont have sexual issues, heck even middle aged women after menopause have a lot of sexual issues of their own they need to deal with. I am just saying men in their 50's are not sexually broken.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by perspective

I did not say that there was no negative health effects to circumcision, yes a 50 year old may not notice small changes over time, but they will notice if they are enjoying sex and/or able to "keep it up". I am not saying middle aged men dont have sexual issues, heck even middle aged women after menopause have a lot of sexual issues of their own they need to deal with. I am just saying men in their 50's are not sexually broken.

You misunderstand me perhaps. I expect them to say that. It is what I would have said. And even if there is some reduction, it is easy to say it is due to normal aging and has nothing to do with sexual feelings.

It is just like a man who has been circ'd from birth saying "How can sex be any better? If I was any more sensitive, I would suffer from pre-ejaculation!" Which I have heard some say.

I was NOT saying that you said there were no negative affects. And I was NOT saying there were always negative effects.

What I was saying is that I do not trust their observations because I have gone through it and can see how unlikely it is that they can sense what is going on.

They could be correct. They could be incorrect. I am simply saying, from their report, as related by you, I do not have confidence that they have a true perception of their situation.

Regards

[jessjgh1]

I think the studies would be helpful (here or perhaps a different stickied thread). Perhaps its already here

I am not aware of studies that are actually compiled on this... even the data on impotency drugs... I think I've seen Frank amass a few comparatives of this. But all of it comes from the layperson, or our interpretation.

It just is another piece of the case against...

[gabysmom617]

Well, unless the links are here somewhere, it's going to take some time doing the research and finding of all the links. I have seen many articles and studies, but not all of them are readily available, and some of them I saw a long time ago, and don't remember exactly which link I was looking at.

I could go into details about each sexual issue that is common to many middle age men in the US, how the affects of menopause has on a woman when combined with regular sex with the circ penis, etc etc etc, but I don't wish to get into any more debates and discussions over proven points at this point in time. I have pretty much figured out that there are some who wish to be educated, and others whose only objective is to argue their own point, the same way some one would argue that the sun doesn't exist, or the sky isn't blue.

I try not to post anymore because I understand that circumcision leaves a horrible wound on the body of a boy and the mind, and many gentlemen here cannot, or are both unwilling and unable to wrap their minds on the complexity of issues that it can cause to them and their loved ones. It's something that no amount of link-posting and argueing can really achieve.

If a person wants to know the facts, they'll do what I did, and my husband did, they'll look them up themselves instead of argueing about absolute specifics that they imagined they saw posted here. (I don't remember anyone saying that ALL 50 year old circ'ed men are sexually broken...)

I wasn't going to deal with this post anymore, as it's taking precious time away from my 2 year old, which is more important to me at the moment. But if I find the time tonight to do research that other people are unwilling to do for the benefit of those who actually care, I'll try to find them.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by gabysmom617

Well, unless the links are here somewhere, it's going to take some time doing the research and finding of all the links. I have seen many articles and studies, but not all of them are readily available, and some of them I saw a long time ago, and don't remember exactly which link I was looking at.

I could go into details about each sexual issue that is common to many middle age men in the US, how the affects of menopause has on a woman when combined with regular sex with the circ penis, etc etc etc, but I don't wish to get into any more debates and discussions over proven points at this point in time. I have pretty much figured out that there are some who wish to be educated, and others whose only objective is to argue their own point, the same way some one would argue that the sun doesn't exist, or the sky isn't blue.

I try not to post anymore because I understand that circumcision leaves a horrible wound on the body of a boy and the mind, and many gentlemen here cannot, or are both unwilling and unable to wrap their minds on the complexity of issues that it can cause to them and their loved ones. It's something that no amount of link-posting and argueing can really achieve.

If a person wants to know the facts, they'll do what I did, and my husband did, they'll look them up themselves instead of argueing about absolute specifics that they imagined they saw posted here. (I don't remember anyone saying that ALL 50 year old circ'ed men are sexually broken...)

I wasn't going to deal with this post anymore, as it's taking precious time away from my 2 year old, which is more important to me at the moment. But if I find the time tonight to do research that other people are unwilling to do for the benefit of those who actually care, I'll try to find them.

Once again, there were points in that post where you were talking about me (although I am sure, you will again argue to the contrary) Also I still dont think your listening to what I am saying, or much more likely, I am just doing a horrible job at explaining my thoughts. Because you say things I fully agree with, yet still write out long replies like there is someone in this thread that disagrees with you on these main points.

I agree that men can have sexual disfunctions caused by circumcision, and that women's sexual disfunctions from age, can be made worse because of their husbands. I agree with all of that. Some of the stuff you said, I found insulting, (if you were calling me thick headed, that is)I guess there is no point in me continuing with you either, because its no longer being productive. And we mostly are just correcting each other on details, and miscommunication.

[hakunangovi]

Gabysmom, I for one would be very interested in any links you can come up with (when you have the time and inclination), because the long term effects of circumcision on a couples sex life are completely ignored by the medical profession and rarely discussed in general. I think a lot of these problems are simply hidden and ingnored out of shear embarrassment if nothing else.

I sometimes read of men still having satisfactory relations into their 80s. I have to believe that they are all intact. When my uncle was in his late 60s he told that "his" did not work any more. My brother, in his mid 50s has told me the same. These are not "old" people we are talking about.

[Blooming]

Gabysmom- I also would be interested in the info.

Perspective- I have been mulling over what it is that is bothering me about your posts. Especially since I agree with so many of your points.

I think it is this: It seems to me that even after I boil down all that we agree about, I am still hearing from you that the woman in the relationship has no rights to share her feelings or even complain. That if the woman is unhappy but the man is happy she should just shut-up and deal.

I feel like this argument is based on the fact that since a cut man was already harmed once his wife should not harm him again. Even if she doesn't say anything and continues to bite her lip in pain to make her partner happy he, their relationship, and family are still being harmed.

You are right I will never know how it feels to walk your path, to feel your pain, or to have a penis. Just as you will never walk in my path, feel my pain, and have a vagina. I am sorry you have suffered I say this with the deepest of sincerity.

In this situation I just can't justify that one partner’s pain (emotional or physical) trumps another. Sex should not hurt either people. I really feel that partners need to work together to make it work. If the man is willing (willing being the key word) to restore in an attempt to bring pleasure and connectedness back to his partner, I believe that is okay.

Gently,

Blooming