4 yr olds play together: one very passive, one very bossy: should moms intervene?

[lizabird]

I was thinking about this last night and thought this would be a good question to ask here. It could apply to any preschool or early aged child.

My ds is very bossy. He always wants people to do things his way. He will tell his friends how to play, always wants to go first, basically he enjoys dictating how everyone else should play (how to hold the train, how the train track should go, his car always goes first down the track, etc etc etc). His friend is very passive. He tells her what to do and she does it, sometimes even though she clearly doesn't want to. Yesterday they played together and were racing cars down a plastic track. He always wanted to race their two cars together, but his always had to go first and she always had to put her car behind his, and whenever she tried to put her car on the track alone she would always ask his permission first (she's very polite too) and he would then put his car on first and then tell her to put her car on behind again. SO they played like this for a while but she was getting frustrated that she couldn't ever just race her car without his in front, so I asked ds to let her go first for a change, take turns, etc., her mom told her she didn't need to always ask permission first since they were already playing the game together she could just go whenever she wanted, but they both ignored us and continued to be bossy and bossed.

So the question is basically this: should we just let them continue this way or should we actively interfere and MAKE my ds let her go first (though when we've done this in the past, I take ds and have him sit on my lap for a while so she can do whatever she wants for a few moments, she steps back and seems to feel like it's her fault ds was taken away and then she won't do anything at all but wait until he comes back. Argh. The other mom and I have talked about it a lot and we know we'd like them to be able to just take turns but my ds always is the bossy one and her dd is always very passive and never really seems comfortable just edging in and doing what she wants to do.

I'm interested to hear what y'all have to say

[MtBikeLover]

I am all for kids playing the way they want to and not interfering, so long as no one is getting frustrated. Sometimes i think my DS is being very unfair with his sister, but if she isn't angry or upset about it, then I will not step in.

But once someone starts to get frustrated and tries to speak up for themselves but it isn't effective (as appears to be in this case) then I absolutely step in. I explain to DS that everyone doesn't always want to play by his rules and that they want to be able to make their own rules too. We talk about what it means to have friends and ways to be a good friend. We talk about how the other person feels when they don't get to do what they want to do. And I have no problem telling him that people may choose not to play with him if they feel things aren't fair. We will talk about situations in the past where he was being bullied and about how that made him feel or when he wanted to do something and someone didn't respect his choices. I then might say "How do you think _____ feels when you don't let her ______?"

All of this is said alone of course, usually at home after the fact. And I don't come across as preachy...I usually try to get him to do most of the talking and thinking about the feelings the other person has.

ETA - Also, the other mom would probably want to start teaching her DD what to do in situations like this. I had to do it with my son when he was being bullied and as much as i was devestated that he was bullied at age 4, I know now that it was a fantastic learning opportunity for him. We worked through solutions together and were able to get the bullying to stop. He learned ways to speak up for himself when he felt unhappy in a situation.

[lizabird]

Yes, basically the other mom and I were on the sidelines having our own conversation but also watching with interest as her dd and my ds played. Usually as long as my kid is playing happily with other kids and no one is upset about anything, I try not to get in the way because they have a remarkable ability to work things out, even at a very young age. The other mom did eventually have a quick little chat with her dd about the fact that she didn't always have to ask permission since they were already playing together, and the only way for me to get my ds to "hear" me is to actually pull him aside and physically keep him from the car track for a few seconds when his friend couldn't seem to get her point across that she really did want to take a turn and actually be first...

Very interested to hear more input. Thanks!

[amcal]

I try to encourage fair play but, personalities come into play as well. Sometimes children are just more passive. They don't need to take a dominant role. They are content to be told how to play and it doesn't upset them. It's hard for me as a parent to let my child be bossed but if it's not bothering her, I would just leave it alone.

But, I would also probably talk to her when we were back home and find out her thoughts on the play. See if maybe secretly it bothered her but she didn't know what to do about it.

But, if it's not bothering anyone and it's not aggressively bossy or dangerously passive then I would probably stay out of it.

[lucyem]

Originally Posted by amcal

I try to encourage fair play but, personalities come into play as well. Sometimes children are just more passive. They don't need to take a dominant role. They are content to be told how to play and it doesn't upset them. It's hard for me as a parent to let my child be bossed but if it's not bothering her, I would just leave it alone.

But, I would also probably talk to her when we were back home and find out her thoughts on the play. See if maybe secretly it bothered her but she didn't know what to do about it.

But, if it's not bothering anyone and it's not aggressively bossy or dangerously passive then I would probably stay out of it.

:

It seems to me its also one of those things you kind of have to take on a case by case situation. My DS can be passive or bossy depending on who he is playing with. But he will also walk away and do his own thing. I tend to stay out of it except if I see him too bossy I will encourage sharing, taking turns etc.

[lizabird]

Originally Posted by amcal

I try to encourage fair play but, personalities come into play as well. Sometimes children are just more passive. They don't need to take a dominant role. They are content to be told how to play and it doesn't upset them. It's hard for me as a parent to let my child be bossed but if it's not bothering her, I would just leave it alone.

But, I would also probably talk to her when we were back home and find out her thoughts on the play. See if maybe secretly it bothered her but she didn't know what to do about it.

But, if it's not bothering anyone and it's not aggressively bossy or dangerously passive then I would probably stay out of it.

That's just the thing though, I don't care if they take rolls they're happy with, but the little girl really wanted to take her turn and the little boy let her, but ONLY if he always got to go first. When they play together the little girl always is very passive and the boy is always very bossy and is always telling her what to do and how to do it and she goes along with it but seems always to be trying to figure out how to *very politely* have her chance to a.) send her car down the track without his car going first, b.) swing on the swing without him always jumping on first, c.) play with a particularly coveted toy in the sandbox without him always taking it from her to show her exactly what she should do with it... the list goes on and on.

So, to answer my own question, the mom of the bossy boy needs to work with him to encourage him to let other kids play with things too, in their own way and in their own time. The mom of the gentle girl needs to work with her to help her express her needs and not always need to ask permission first, although that's certainly a wonderful trait in some situations.

And as long as they are playing together happily, just let them be (though it's those situations where someone is being really bossy and the other kid doesn't appreciate it that I'm concerned about here).

[cinnamongrrl]

It's important to model and encourage healthy behavior and respect for other people's rights for young children. Neither being bossy or being passive is a good role. While both moms should help their children to be assertive instead of bossy or passive, it is particularly hard to stand up to a bossy person. So I'd say the mom of the bossy child bears more of the responsibility to make sure his behavior is fair and just.

[tinuviel_k]

I've always encouraged Denali to take a balanced role in her play with other kids: not to bossy and not to passive. And I've absolutely interfered when she has been playing with a bossy child and couldn't find her voice. Learning to be stepped on is not a good lesson, IMO. After helping her to express her opinion we talked about things she could say if she is playing with someone who refuses to listen and take turns, but I've told her she can always come to me if she needs help finding her words.

If she is being the bossy one I like to quietly come up to her and remind her that when playing it is polite to share turns, and that she needs to listed to the other child, too.

Denali is usually really wonderful about balanced play. When she was younger she tended to be more of a doormat, and then she explored being in charge. She seems to have settled into a good balance: she loves playing cooperatively, takes charge occasionally but also follows. She has no problem leaving another child to play by themselves if they are being too bossy.

[afishwithabike]

Maybe you could play "games" to see who gets to go first (IE: rolling a jellybean across the floor with their noses) Something entirely FUN. IT may take the pressure off.