Smoking weed and breastfeeding???? - Page 2

[SarahGuinn]

Heh, OhMel! My CNMW told me to have a pint while learning to bf at first to relax and that it stimulated let down. This was during her bfing class.

Funny how the information we have on hand is never the same ANYWHERE. Even here.

[OhMel]

Getting OT! Sorrry. . .

T

I know, it just drives me nuts. My MW told me to have a glass of wine when labor started so I could relax and maybe sleep. I have a friend who's OB told her "Never take any herbs" but told her that all other stuff was fine. WTF? Grrr. I'm sure he told her OTC stuff was fine.

[UlrikeDG]

The difference between an occasional glass of wine and smoking pot is that pot is illegal and THE STATE COULD TAKE YOUR BABY AWAY. Why would anyone risk that?

Also, regarding the argument that my body can filter out any "bad stuff," my daughter has multiple food allergies. Every time I eat dairy or soy or onions or wheat or corn or rice, she gets sick. It's a different situation, but I firmly believe that I shouldn't put anything into my body that I don't want going into hers!

[SarahGuinn]

My son has the similar allergies and I spent over a year on a strict elimination diet. I understand your point. But you're generalizing my idea that we do not trust our bodies as often as we should. At the same time, I uunderstand the level of distrust that comes along with finding out your milk can seem "poisonous" because of glutens, dairy, etc. to your child.

Back to MJ.

Yes, it's is illegal and my point was that it shouldn't be.

It's sad that we have doctors throwing drugs at women who are pregnant and/or nursing that terrify me. But we'll throw that same mother in jail or take away her children for self medicating with pot.

Unfortunately, this thread happens on a cycle here at MDC. There are those that have moral issues with MJ. There are those that support it's legalization. There are those who don't really care.

We're not going to change each others minds.

Also, everyone should think twice before admitting ANYTHING on this board. Some folks take their moral obligation very seriously. FYI.

[Arduinna]

"Our country cannot ascertain the difference between a junkie and occasional recreational use."

Boy is that the truth. At this point you'd think we did live in prohibition times, since so many people think that inbibing one beer makes someone a bad parent and many people (in general) think that any drinking means your an addict. :

Anyway, good point Sarah I haven't seen anyone admit anything. And just in case anyone assumed I was speaking about myself when I referenced a poster smoking during pg, I wasn't. I know I was a little cryptic, but I didn't want to out a fellow mom.

In the decriminalized states, use or possesion doesn't even get an arrest. It results in a ticket and a fine. No jail time required. Misdemeaners don't result in the taking away of children. CPS has to prove neglect or abuse, not just smoking pot. I think I posted that before??

[Doodlebugsmom]

Like SarahGuinn, I also know a mama who uses pot daily as an anti-depressant. I really don't see how it's worse than prozac, wellbutrin, zoloft, etc. My mama friend is nursing her 3 year old, who is as sharp as a tack and has the verbal skills of an 8 year old. She also smoked during her first pregnancy. She was very young at the time and was sick every day. The pot helped her feel better and had no ill effects on her dd. Dd is now 13 years old and extemely bright. That said, I personally am not comfortable smoking or drinking at all while pg. I have had a drink a couple of times since I've been nursing though.

[Bradysmommy]

ok well different things work for different people. Look at it this way some women will drink the whole time they are pg and the baby will be perfectly fine. another women may have one or two drinks and her baby will have FAS. Some women can smoke pot or just smoke cigerates(sp) and it will have no affect on the baby, while another may have smoked a few times and it affects the baby.


Yea your body might filter out all the bad stuff BUT why would you take that chance.

A friend of mine smoked pot and cigerates all while she was pg. Her argument for it was the only thing that will happen is the baby may be underweight. well she had her baby early and had to stay in the hospital for awhile and she's a little behind her peers. Now was it from smoking pot or cigerates or was it just something that was going to happen no matter what she did??? My point is well never know.

BUT if it did affect her baby while she was pg whats to say it wont while she's bf'ing. i just think that you should do everything you can to make sure your baby is as healthy as can be.

[laurata]

Originally posted by SarahGuinn
My issue with the link you gave laurata is that my reasons for the legalization of marijuana are black and white. The war on drugs, specifically mj, has put away people for outrageous sentences because of madatory sentencing. I won't go any further into my reasons because that's not the point of this thread.

The link you provided asks your opinion and receives it. Then says, "yeah, but!" over and over. I'm mildly insulted by the tone of it but that just because I started my period today. Heh.

True. I think it's good for people who can't make up their mind whether the legalization of MJ is good or bad. I'd be curious if states where MJ use is decriminalized have statistics on whether there is much difference in abuse problems, higher rates of use, etc. It seems like moderate use isn't unreasonable and probably fine. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

Interesting debate.

[sunmountain]

if you drink every day it WILL affect your baby, no argument there.
if you smoke pot, it will not, and I have yet to see a study that says otherwise.

I am the mom Arduinna was refering to. You will not be arrested for admitting that you smoke pot while pg to a healthcare provider. It was the only thing that kept me out of the hospital, I was unable to eat anything for 3 months at the beginning of ALL of my pgs. Yes, I have have used it to treat depression. It worked in both instances. All of my babies scored 8 or 9 on the APGAR, none were underwieght AT ALL. When I was visited by a pediatrician and a social worker after the birth of my last child in the hospital, I went over all of the literature they gave me with them. I gave them the example of the Rastafarian moms, they agreed with me about all of it. They told me that they consider it "a lifestyle choice" to smoke mj, that as long as we weren't dealing or doing anything really harmful, like coke or crack or heroine then it wasn't an issue, but that it was their job to follow up with mamas who have admitted this to their healthcare providers while pg. Their concern was that I would cross over to other drugs that WERE harmful. They wanted to know my reasons for choosing to do this, and I explained it to them. They wished me well and went on their way. I knew the risks, I am willing to fight for my rights as a mother. I know they won't take my kids away, I have looked into the legalities of it in our city and state, and read many posts by joyberryjoy here on mdc. If you have a question regarding the issue of the kids being taken away, she will answer your questions, her dh is a lawyer (and I think she is one, too, but I could be wrong and she just writes like one.)

edited to add...
they didn't follow up because they can't, legally they have no authority to come into my home and accuse me of something they didn't witness, even if I admitted to doing it in the past. They have more to worry about than ppl like me.

I'm not interested in convincing anyone to agree with me or support me. So all of you nay-sayers can spew your venom at me all you like, I am not hurt by it, I have thought about this issue harder than any of you, you can be sure. I have done more research than any of you about it. I did not make this decision with no information or out of ignorance, and other than saying that, I am not going to go out of my way to defend myself.

I am, however, willing to have an intelligent thoughtful discussion about it and answer questions if you like.

[Momtwice]

"women are constantly given reasons why bfing is hard and you can't live the life you want while doing so. You may as well feed the baby formula, etc. ...It's not as scary as "they" make it out to be."said one mom

Another mom replied

"I totally agree. My sil stopped bf'ing bc she wanted to drink more than one beer. Somehow, the benefits of bf'ing are less than the effect of two beers in our culture. Very sad."

It's sad when the culture interferes with bf, yes. But it is also sad when a mom CHOOSES alcohol or drugs over bf. Some moms don't get accurate bf info or suport, while others are immature and selfish. I know a mom who didn't bf at all because she wanted to do party drugs and was tired of abstaining while pg.
:Puke

[oceanbaby]

I am glad to hear that there are some moms here who can wade through the propoganda and talk some sense. Although I do not smoke, pregnant or not (but heck, I didn't even have caffeine or soft cheeses because I am a paranoid freak about that kind of stuff), in my past life as a serious student at UCB I did much research about this topic. (Yes, I do have references, but they are buried in my messy out of control garage and unless pressed I really don't want to go get them.)

First of all, regarding studies that people cite. Who do you think is funding these studies? Please know that the vast majority of these studies are funded by the US government in support of the war on drugs (which is a sham, BTW, but that is for another thread). Other establishments don't usually have the clout to get the results of their studies published - the results that show absolutely no effect whatsoever on babies whose moms smoked while pregnant or nursing. Alcohol, caffeine, and OTC medications, on the other hand, are potentially very harmful.

Regarding having your baby taken away, this again is propoganda. I mean, yes, my baby could be taken away or I could be arrested just if I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time - crazy stuff happens. But this has nothing to do with marijuana. Marijuana laws vary from state to state. In the state that I live in, posession of less than 1 ounce of marijuana (which is quite a bit IMO), is a misdemeanor, not a felony. You won't even be arrested - you will be cited. There is no law regarding ingesting marijuana while nursing or pregnant, just as there is no law against drinking or smoking cigarettes while pregnant. Pregnant women seek drug treatment all the time, usually for very hard drugs, and very few have their children removed. If their children are removed, it's because they were unable to provide any care for them, not because they smoked a joint. Heck, not even because they shot heroin.

Please make responsible decisions, and please please please don't believe everything you read. Question the sources, question their motives, follow the money trail, and then sit back and think about what makes sense to you. Does it really make sense that a natural herb would be more dangerous than alcohol, pills, cigarettes, genetically modified foods, or pollution?

[babydoll]

herbs...

I wish people would realize that many legal and illegal drugs come from herbs. So your argument that herbs are safer is uncredited. Not to mention that herbs can be highly concentrated or very weak and most are not regulated by any sort of place such as the FDA that makes sure that they are even what they say they are. Certain herbs are very very dangerous during nursing and pregnancy. This is not to say just because a drug is regulated by the FDA it is safe (just look at Phen-Fen), but at least there is credible research done on these drugs and if you buy them you know what dosage you are getting.

Another thing...
Street drugs are rarely pure and can contain traces of other drugs or other substances. So unless you are growing it yourself from an uncontaminted seed you don't know that all you are getting is marijuana - and if you are growing it yourself - I would wager a guess that you could get your children taken away.


For the mother who used pot for morning/night sickeness. I don't feel sorry for you. I too could not eat during the first half of my pregnancy. When you choose to be a parent you make sacrifices for your child. I know how miserable morning sickness can be, but frankly that is just tough - there are other options.

[oceanbaby]

I absolutely do realize that some herbs are very potent and can be dangerous. But marijuana is not one of them. Not even any of the government funded studies can come up with anything much stronger than it "may cause low birth weight." Even with their wildest stretching of the truth they can't come up with anything even remotely close to the damage that legal and often socially acceptable drugs (caffeine, pain meds, antidepressants, etc.) can do.

I don't think Sunmountain was asking you to feel sorry for her. She took control of her body, and the health of her and her children, and made an informed, educated decision that worked for her. That's pretty much the most we can ask of any mom.

And a lot of those "other options" that you refer to have the potential to be much more harmful than even daily pot smoking. The warning labels on drugs that are readily prescribed or given to pregnant or nursing moms list many more serious conditions than marijuana could ever cause, even if being used in massive quantities. Once during my pregnancy, and 2 different times while exclusively breastfeeding my newborn, I was given prescriptions for drugs that upon ~my~ further research, not my doctor's, revealed stern warnings for use while pregnant or nursing. I chose not to take them all 3 times. If I were to experience serious nausea, I personally would consider marijuana before other drugs because I know that it is a safer alternative.

Edited to add: You are corect about the possibility of tainted street drugs, and of the danger of growing in your home. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in using marijuana find a source that they know they can trust.

[Pallas]

Originally posted by Bradysmommy
ok well different things work for different people. Look at it this way some women will drink the whole time they are pg and the baby will be perfectly fine. another women may have one or two drinks and her baby will have FAS. Some women can smoke pot or just smoke cigerates(sp) and it will have no affect on the baby, while another may have smoked a few times and it affects the baby.


Yea your body might filter out all the bad stuff BUT why would you take that chance.

A friend of mine smoked pot and cigerates all while she was pg. Her argument for it was the only thing that will happen is the baby may be underweight. well she had her baby early and had to stay in the hospital for awhile and she's a little behind her peers. Now was it from smoking pot or cigerates or was it just something that was going to happen no matter what she did??? My point is well never know.

BUT if it did affect her baby while she was pg whats to say it wont while she's bf'ing. i just think that you should do everything you can to make sure your baby is as healthy as can be.

I have never heard of anyone having a baby with FAS as a result of one or two drinks.

According to my doc, the cigarettes your friend was smoking were more dangerous to her baby than the mj, and far more likely to cause low birth weight.

Fearmongering just bugs me. Facts are scary enough on their own.

[sunmountain]

I'm so glad oceanbaby pointed out that I'm not looking to be pitied. I didn't choose my medicine out of ignorance. I chose to use one that is currently illegal, yes, and I can't argue with anyone who is uneasy with that. I wasn't "driven" to use mj to treat depression and the all day/all night nausea and vomitting, I considered it my best option. The FDA once approved a drug in the 50's and 60's for morning sickness, and it caused very high rates of birth defects! And after taking prozac for a time in college, I wasn't willing to deal with the side effects again, regardless of whether or not this same gov't agency said it was safe during pg.

And yes, "street drugs" are often tainted. Products bought from a reputable seller however, are not.

Sacrifices? Well, you have no idea what kind of sacrafices I have made for my children. Probably more than most. Time spent in the hospital for dehydration was not an option. Or in the Mental Health ward for that matter. I didn't just "do the best I could" I did what I knew was best.

Still, I understand how uncomfortable many ppl with mainstream ideas about this are with the illegality of smoking mj AT ALL. But, a bad law is a bad law, and there's nothing wrong with challenging it esp if it is a law with a foundation in racial prejudice and general ignorance. I weighed my options, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't putting anyone in danger with my choice. yes, really.

[asherah]

Sunmountain...
everyone around here that knows you knows you are an incredible mom and an incredible person.

Some people are simply going to stick with their self-righteousness no matter WHAT the evidence says.

[SarahGuinn]

I don't have the energy to write everything else I was thinking about. sunmountain, pallas, oceanbaby, thanks for your posts.

I was lying in bed last night thinking that we ask so much of ourselves as mothers, and we ask even more of other women who have children. We make the necessary sacrifices and never are we permitted to think of ourselves.

This is one instance where I err on the side of the adult. The informed, educated on the subject, allowed to seek out the one hitter for relief mother.

Do not misunderstand either. I don't condone doing it in the company of children, talking about it with them until much much older, having them around when purchasing or trading, etc.

It should be legal.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Sunmountain,
I totally respect your decision to use marijuana medically while pregnant. The decision you made was educated and you did what was best for you and your family. You are very courageous to share it with us. I would rather use marijuana than any other prescription drug that has the same effects.

[candiland]

The ladies I know who use(d) mj have the brightest, most emotionally balanced children I know. Luck? I seriously doubt it. These ladies also lead an amazingly righteous lifestyle... very spiritual, kind, balanced lives where disrespect and judgment are curiously absent. Coincidence?

[MamaSoleil]

Sunmountain!
Of course I fully agree with what Asherah said. And I'm enjoying this thread immensly, I was wondering when the debate would start...and when the real facts would come on board.
I studied criminology in University, and one class was solely on drugs and Canada. I agree with the poster who said, question the facts you are reading...who is funding them???
The problem I faced when pg with my first was, what study do I trust? I was desperately seeking an UNBIASED study, for or against. Unfortunately, with MJ being illegal..unbiased studies are difficult to find.
Basically, the Jamaican study showed that it was not the drug, but the lifestyle..those who could afford a healthy diet, and were healthy, had the high scoring babies...and the problem with drug/mj studies/related to pg have been in the past, based on the 'lower' class, where the mothers were not necessarily only smoking mj, nor were they necessarily eating properly.
Weed thru the facts..find the truth..no 'pun' intended!!!

Peace,

Mamasoleil/samson