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What happens if you don't get the disease in childhood?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
If you don't vax, then don't get the disease, should you get vaxed as a young adult? Just wondering what people think about this.
post #2 of 19
Why? Do those who did get vaxed in childhood and didn't get the disease keep doing boosters all their life?
post #3 of 19
Kids get enough infections. Every fever builds immunity. That's why it's so important to just let the fever go.

I bet most unvaxed kids have immunity to all the diseases they "need" by the time they are 10 or 12 even if they don't have the right symptoms.
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
So, you would say the probability of having acquired immunity naturally, even without having shown any symptoms of the disease, is great enough that you would not be worried about any increased consequences of getting the disease as an adult.
post #5 of 19
I believe in the above statement but I also believe in it depends on the disease. What disease are you talking about?

For example if you talking about the Hep B shot (or Hib, Hep A, Rotovirus.....) - most adults have not gotten that one and I don't seem them running out to get vaccinated or give it a second thought of worry.

Does Polio worry you? Because there hasn't been a live case since I belive '79 in this country. Amazing that we took smallpox off the "schedule" after years of no cases but that one stays. I guess since it's packaged with others in an all-in-one shot. : (on a side note I did hear a few years ago that they WERE going to take it "off" the schedule to make room for new ones.. wonder what ever happen to that? anyone?)

Anyway ds needs me and I've lost my train of throught to placenta brain (due soon)... So my feeling is it really depends on the disease...
post #6 of 19
Fear of disease is the problem. I don't spend one minute of my time worry that my children will get this or that illness.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Well, like chicken pox, for instance. If you get it as a kid, it's not a big deal. But if you get it as an adult, usually it's more severe and there are complications associated with it. It's also still a fairly common disease. And, I figure an adult can handle the vax better than a child can, due to the fact that an adult is bigger and not developing anymore. So, I guess what I'm saying is, for adults the disease is riskier than for kids, and for adults the vax is probably safer than for kids, so it changes the equation a little.

BTW - I'm not worried about polio. Just so you know where I'm coming from, DS is vaxed up to 9 months (he's 5 now) and DD is unvaxed (she's 2). I figure when they are adults they can make up their own minds about whether they want to get vaxed or not. I just was wondering what people thought about this.
post #8 of 19
I plan to have titers drawn for my dd at 13 and go from there.
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd View Post
So, you would say the probability of having acquired immunity naturally, even without having shown any symptoms of the disease, is great enough that you would not be worried about any increased consequences of getting the disease as an adult.
Sure. Most adults are not up to date on the vaccines, do you see a lot of them having measles, mumps and chicken pox. Also, most girls get their last MMR vaccine at a young age. Yet when they get pregnant they are immune. That is not from the vaccine. It is natural immunity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by junestars View Post
(or Hib, Hep A, Rotovirus.....) - most adults have not gotten that one and I don't seem them running out to get vaccinated or give it a second thought of worry.
That is because most kids are immune to rotovirus by the time they are 5 anyway and Hep A also. Hib is one of those bacteria that is found in the throats of healthy people. So, that shows that either they have immunity or the bacteria is a commensal bacteria that is in balance with the rest of the bacterial flora in the throat.

Quote:
Does Polio worry you?
Absolutely not. Polio was actually not a severe infection for over 99% of the people. Most never knew they had it. But like any disease, some get hit hard. But the chance is so rare that it absolutely does not worry me and we would never consider the vaccine.

How do you know you are not immune to polio?
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
Sure. Most adults are not up to date on the vaccines, do you see a lot of them having measles, mumps and chicken pox. Also, most girls get their last MMR vaccine at a young age. Yet when they get pregnant they are immune. That is not from the vaccine. It is natural immunity.
Well, all the adults I know had chicken pox as kids. I also know some adults who had measles and mumps as kids. I can't say I know anyone personally who had measles/mumps as an adult.

I am really interested to know how someone could differentiate immunity gained naturally, from immunity gained by a vaccine.
post #11 of 19
One is superficial immunity that starts to wane shortly. The other is cell/core immunity that is permanent.

And when they do titres they can actually tell which virus it is: Wild or vaccine virus that built your immunity.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
If you don't vax, then don't get the disease, should you get vaxed as a young adult?
Right now I'm leaning on the side of not checking titers and not recommending the vaxes to the kids when they're of an age to make these decisions for themselves.

I think for me, what it comes down to is that I still am not comfortable with some of the stuff in many of the vaccines, things like aluminum, and the unknowns. Do vaccines have more global effects on the immune system than just creating an immune response for a specific virus? Seems like they may, with hints that allergies and autoimmune disorders are likelier with more vaccinations. I don't have studies on-hand, and I don't think it's at all definitive, but there are possibilities there that I'm not at all comfortable with. I think a lot of the vax/no-vax/some-vax decision comes down to how we, individually, make a risk assessment of the unknowns. There are quite a few, and the answers don't seem to be just around the corner, so we have to make decisions on imperfect data. For now, my gut call is no.

Even though the likelihood of problems is higher when infected with many of these illnesses first in adulthood, the overall level of bad outcomes isn't that high, and I think I can skew the likelihood toward a good outcome by my years of brainwashing the kids on the importance of taking care of themselves, body and soul. I think good food, a good environment, and good mental health will see them through the things they encounter.
post #13 of 19
I got fully vaxed as a child and with my last pregnancy, I was told that my blood work came back as showing I have no immunity to Rubella. Go figure. My doc suggested that if I was planning on having more kids, to consider getting vaxed.

I turned it down. I read the risks associated with the vax and I'm just not willing to put that crap into my body. If I remember correctly, you should not get pregnant for over 3 months after having that vax. Sorry...I'll just take my chances...which I don't feel is a chance. I eat healthy...get my sleep...take my needed supplements. It's just not something I'm willing to do. I won't vax my kids and I won't vax myself.

I agree with Gitti that by the time most people hit adulthood, they've been exposed to all kinds of illnesses. One of the reasons that non-vaxed people are showing to be more healthier is because their bodies have been allowed to be exposed to, and fight off, every germ it's come into contact with. That builds up the immune system. Think of it like an army...the germs--ie colds, etc--are like hand-to-hand combat training. The immune system learns how to fight off the germs/over abundance of bacteria/viruses that invade the body. Now, with vaccines, it's like the army sending in robots to do the work of the men it has. It's also like shooting those men with sleep-inducing drugs. So, when the germs, etc hit...the robots take care of the problem. What happens later in life...when the robots rust and die off is that you have an army that is ill-equipped to deal with what is coming at it. It spent so much time sleeping and depending on the robots that it will have to keep getting new robots to do the job.

I know a few people, as adults, who have never been vaccinated (which is pretty amazing, considering when they were born/grew up). And they are very healthy...they rarely ever get sick. But, it's not JUST being unvaxed...it's eating healthy...exercising...getting plenty of sleep...taking care of their bodies and their minds. It's painting a whole picture and not just the shade tree in the foreground.

You have to remember that MOST deaths from these diseases were due to lack of the necessary supplies needed (mainly clean water, good hygiene, and an understanding about the disease). If you allow the body to do what it needs to do, it will...no matter how old or young you are. The body was made to take care of itself.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
One is superficial immunity that starts to wane shortly. The other is cell/core immunity that is permanent.
This cell/core immunity concept sounds interesting. Can you provide more details?
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
And when they do titres they can actually tell which virus it is: Wild or vaccine virus that built your immunity.
Really? Do you have to specify that when asking to get checked? How do they know?
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dymanic View Post
This cell/core immunity concept sounds interesting. Can you provide more details?
I would love more info on this, as well!!
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
Sure. Most adults are not up to date on the vaccines, do you see a lot of them having measles, mumps and chicken pox.
Well, not a lot of them, but yes I do know adults who have had the childhood diseases as grown ups. I have a friend who got chicken pox as an adult and she was so sick for so long she had to have her mom take care of her and this is a very very capable and strong woman. That's why when she and her partner had kids they skipped the vax and sought out wild chicken pox for the kids to make sure the immunity did not wane. She didn't want her kids to have to go through what she did.

About 100 years ago my grandfather also had the measles as a 16 year old and is reported to have said, "I like to died and I didn't care if I did." I don't know that I would go out in search of measles for my kids, but I was glad when they got the pox. The last I checked (several years ago) there were only 50 cases of measles in the US that year.

Chicken pox is much more common and the chances that you would be exposed to it as an unvaxed adult are much more likely especially since there are those "breakthrough" cases in varicella vaxed kids and it keeps circulating. So I guess if my kids hadn't had the pox when they got to be older I might check titres and go from there.

I don't think I'm going to do anything on the measles vax or polio (although I might if they traveled to a region with polio — it's still prevalent in Africa or India, isn't it?).

Rubella I think is one of those that is around so much they might have a mild case and not even know it. I might recommend titres before TTC, but probably not before then.

Mumps, I dunno. I had it as a kid. I was probably 8 or 9 and just had one mump (one sided). It wasn't bad then, but I'm not sure I would wish that on an adult. I will have to check out the CDC and see what they report for cases. If it's as low as measles we might take our chances.
post #18 of 19
http://www.garynull.com/Documents/ni...tions_work.htm

Quote:
So the trick of a vaccination is to stimulate the immune system just enough so that it makes antibodies and "remembers" the disease antigen but not so much that it provokes an acute inflammatory response by the cellular immune system and makes us sick with the disease we’re trying to prevent! Thus a vaccination works by stimulating very much the antibody production (Th2) and by stimulating very little or not at all the digesting and discharging function of the cellular immune system (Th1).
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanidFL View Post
How do they know?
That I don't know. But there it just one example to show you that they do in fact know the difference -


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4...?dopt=Abstract


Quote:
Studies were conducted of experimental challenge with rubella virus in vaccinees whose possession of vaccine-induced antibody after vaccination had been documented and whose antibody level had become undetectable or very low over time. The challenge virus was the Howell strain, which had been shown to produce typical clinical and laboratory features of rubella in susceptible persons.
.......

The results emphasize the importance of continuing careful clinical and laboratory surveillance of vaccinees for determining the persistence of vaccine-induced immunity and of considering methods for identifying and revaccinating the minority of vaccinees who lose such immunity.
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