refusing to memorize Bible memory verse - Page 2

[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

I would take her refusal as her way of saying that she is not ready to do this now. Even if this is a really typical thing for lots of 4 year olds, yours isn't up to it at the moment, whether it's because she's stressed over the move, or for whatever other reason. Since you don't care if she learns the verse, I'd drop it. If not learning the verse caused a problem at her Weds night class, I'd drop the class. At this age, how she feels about the class is more important than what she learns, IMO.

ZM

ITA

[Nature]

Ugh, that was the worst part of going to a Christian school as a child. I hated, hated, HATED being forced to memorize verses. And I honestly don't even know what it was supposed to teach me, except I can now sound totally cool and worldly by being able to repeat random phrases from scripture that a million other people can also repeat.

I do think that 4 is very young to expect that, though I can remember being forced to memorize the 23rd Psalm when I was only 5.

I'd let it go.

[Dandelionkid]

I was contemplating sending my DD to AWANA this fall but I feel uncomfortable with "forcing" her to memorize verses in order to get badges and recognition in front of all the other kids. It would be stressful for me and for her and learning verses should not be forced or a negative experience. I think far better to read the bible daily to them- they will pick it up just the same way they "read" their own books and may be able to develop context and meaning around it far easier than just memorizing the words. Maybe you already do this.

Practically, I would totally back off- let her show you what she is comfortable with. I also doubt she is really afraid to say them but like you said maybe needs to feel control over the situation. It sounds like the harder you push the more she will push back. Maybe it would help to give up the power struggle, keep reviewing verses and let her know that whatever she decided to do with them is fine by you.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

I'd let it go. I would read it to her nightly so she hears it, because it appears to be important for your church culture. You might try explaining to her why she's learning these verses.

I'd tell her that I know she can do it, and so she can choose to tell the teacher or not. I'd tell her that if she wants to practice saying it, I'll be happy to help her. If not, I'd just like her to listen to me say it.

I have a son who is very very much not a performer. He has to be very sure and he has to do things on his own time. Our church isn't into memorizing verses in that way, but if they were, I could guarantee you, he would never repeat it in front of the class. Even now at 6.5, I doubt he'd do it.

There isn't a way that you can make a child say something, so I would make this low key.

I agree. My youngest is in private school Kindergarten and they have to learn a new verse each week. Sometimes she knows it and sometimes she doesn't. They also are required every single morning to say the pledge of allegiance and the pledge to the Christian flag and the Bible and she will say it in a gibberish manner or just move her lips sometimes even though she knows them. It's just part of being that young. I really wouldn't worry about it at this young age.

[yokosmile]

Let it go. Let her enjoy her childhood. I also was forced to memorize Bible verses as a wee one... Atheist now.

[AllisonR]

I don't think the issue here is bible verses. It is about a 4 yo and memorization. If she decides herself she wants to memorize a verse, or her ABCs, or her colors, the numbers 1-10, a song.... that is one thing. That is learning in a fun, exciting, non-power struggle way. The child herself is free to think of the phrase, alphabet, numbers, whatever, and enjoying repeating it, or even playing with it. (My son often says 1-2-3-4-5, even when he knows there is only 3 or 4 things, because he likes pretending there is more things. It is fun for him.)

An adult, saying you will now say "abcdefg..." or "lets count from 1-10" or "the lord is my sheperd" or whatever - that is another thing. That is not fun; it is monotonous, dull, the will of the adult. And I don't see how it is actully learning at all.

[mlleoiseau]

Thanks for all the input! I hadn't realized so many people responded cause for some reason I didn't get any notifications of replies to my thread.

I had read the first three replies and had decided to let it go. I've told her that she can say the verse in class if she wants to, and not say it if she doesn't want to. I've been trying to go over it with her a couple of times a day--really just saying it to her.

She did memorize and recite the first two verses, but that was for a different teacher. And before a reward was instituted. So, I know she's capable of of it. Of the three other kids in the class, two recite the verse and the other child is special needs with brain damage and possibly incapable of memorizing the verse.

Dd tends to not want to do things unless she feels she can do them well, and that may be another factor in this. She only started coloring with crayons and markers three weeks ago--always before she would fuss because she couldn't do it right. I hadn't thought about that and I did push her somewhat to recite the verse. Sometimes I find it hard to stay focused on my values when I'm around so many other moms who think differently.

Dd can memorize and/or recite the verse or not as she likes. I feel kind of bad in a way, though. The teacher had planned to give candy and little trinket type toys as a reward, and I specifically requested non food, non cluttering rewards be used instead. And now my child doesn't even want to participate for the reward. Oh well.

Thanks for all the input!

[j924]

Jumping in late but I also teach 4 yos at our Sunday school class. One thing that worked magic was having small groups recite together. That way no one was penalized or embarrassed and it makes the whole reward thing a moot point.

[Sydnee]

My girls are 6.5 and 4.5 that go to Sunday School right now. My 4.5 year old does better at memorizing than my 6.5 year old! We just go over it several times a day, and then we also learn a song with sign language that has the verse in it. That helps a ton! And at Sunday School, we really stress that this isn't something they HAVE to do, but more of something fun for them to learn,kwim? I would just keep reading it over and over, and let her go from there.

Good luck mama! I feel your pain!!!

[nicole lisa]

Originally Posted by mlleoiseau

She did memorize and recite the first two verses, but that was for a different teacher. And before a reward was instituted.

I bolded the end part because this may be significant (or not!) DS is very sensitive to external motivations and any time there is a carrot or reward he shuts down and refuses to participate. He's always been this way and as he's gotten older we've been able to ask about it more. He finds the rewards insulting and/or coercive/manipulative. He likes to feel if he's going to complete something it's because he wants to do it and not because someone feels holding a reward out to him is going to get him to do it for them. He's crazy internally driven and very competitive with himself and there's a large amount of perfectionism in him. The quickest way to get him to stop doing something is to offer a reward - he really digs his feet in then.

Maybe your DD is the same way?

[RubyWild]

Originally Posted by mlleoiseau

She did memorize and recite the first two verses, but that was for a different teacher. And before a reward was instituted. So, I know she's capable of of it.

Oh, wow, I am exactly like that. I was exactly like that as a kid. If a teacher rewarded me with a gold star or some external reward, I lost all interest in the activity. It's one of the reasons that public school failed me so miserably because they were all about external rewards back in those days.

This could go beyond just this one lesson. A great book to read is Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes by Alfie Kohn.

Or, could it be that she hates reciting it out loud so she refuses to learn it?

[nicole lisa]

Originally Posted by RubyWild

If a teacher rewarded me with a gold star or some external reward, I lost all interest in the activity.

yeah, the minute a reward is offered DS becomes suspicious. You can just see him thinking 'if they have to give me something to get me to do it what they want me to do must really suck.' If what was being asked was so great it wouldn't need a reward to sell it.

[RubyWild]

Originally Posted by nicole lisa

yeah, the minute a reward is offered DS becomes suspicious. You can just see him thinking 'if they have to give me something to get me to do it what they want me to do must really suck.' If what was being asked was so great it wouldn't need a reward to sell it.

Oh, this is bringing back a memory.

In summer bible study, which I begged to attend, I learned the Chapters of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John...)and got a little wooden plaque that said, "Jesus is Love" with a yellow smiley face on it (It was the 70s). I was half-way through learning the old (Genesis, Exodus...) when I got that plaque, and I just gave up. I never memorized the chapters of the old testament.

Well, I've been an atheist for more than 20 years now, and I have often wished that I knew those chapters. If I have to look up something in the old testament, I have the chapter order memorized. If it's in the old testament, which, more often than not, it is, I have to go to the Index (which, in itself, is usually difficult to locate).

Yeah, but, as an atheist, I'm glad I learned so many quotes.