Bottles&The Business of Being Born - Page 2

[Pynki]

Nope, not beyond the scope! I totally disagree! HB and Midwifery is the whole package, mom care, birth care, after birth mom care and baby care. If you leave out BFing then you leave out a huge part of the after birth care of both the mom and baby on so many levels.

And, I'M sorry, but I disagree with you. Homebirth and midwifery doesn't mean that people are going to breastfeed and not circ. It just doesn't. The fact that the two of those get enmeshed in MDC land is sort of mind boggling.

Homebirth is GENERALLY about the mother and how she wishes to birth. The fact that an unmedicated birth is generally better for the babe is just a bonus to that.

Child feeding and care are secondary to this. It's like saying Ob's are concerned with breastfeeding rates for the infants. Again, generally, they're just not. They're concerned with the woman's health. And if breastfeeding reduces cancers for the MOM, they will probably give LIP SERVICE to it's benefits. But make no mistake they are in it for WOMEN. And WOMEN are their clientel. Make the WOMAN feel bad for her choices and she isn't coming back to you for care.

The two are enmeshed in MDC. Not the larger birthing community.

[KimProbable]

I agree that the c-section and having a premature baby probably played a huge role in her breastfeeding problems. I also wonder what kind of pressure and time constraints she was under with the making of the documentary. If she was still working a lot of hours that's one more thing that was stacked against her.

I cringed when I saw her bottlefeeding, but less because of the message it sent and more because of how difficult it must have been for her to lose out both on a homebirth and breastfeeding.

[SallyN]

Originally Posted by yamilee21

There is a part in the film when they talk about how chimpanzees won't take care of their babies if they don't birth them vaginally. Having twice listened to Diane Weissinger's lecture (What Would Mammals Do?) on the connection between the normal birth process and breastfeeding, I thought it was very telling that Abby Epstein ended up bottle-feeding - really reinforces the idea of the connection between the two. And of course, the fact that he was born a bit early, and very small, and was in the NICU, certainly would not have made it any easier.

ditto to this

[DoomaYula]

My heart went out to Abby when I saw her crying while she was trying to bf in the NICU. I could really *feel* her pain in losing out on a homebirth and then having breastfeeding difficulties.

The most striking moment, however, was when she was being interviewed 8mos later and she seemed so emotionally disconnected compared to the previous scene of her crying in the NICU. I almost felt like she had just given up on the situation -- no homebirth, no bf'ing, no big deal. That made me sad.

(Aside: I had twins at 34w who were in the NICU, and ITA with the poster who said that the NICU makes it nearly impossible to bf. Especially as a first time mom, and after having breast reduction surgery. I'm on my fourth child, and she's the first one who is ebf, and also the first homebirth. Coincedence???)

[folkgirl]

Originally Posted by BakerALM

Nope, not beyond the scope! I totally disagree! HB and Midwifery is the whole package, mom care, birth care, after birth mom care and baby care. If you leave out BFing then you leave out a huge part of the after birth care of both the mom and baby on so many levels.

Okay, but the movie is already 84 minutes long. What portions of the film do you think should be removed to make room for comprehensive information about breastfeeding? Or should they just make the movie longer...? That doesn't seem practical to me; also, breastfeeding is a pretty complex topic in and of itself and I think it would really take a whole movie to examine all the things that are wrong with how breastfeeding is handled in our culture and how many women (including NICU moms) are set up to fail.

[heatherweh]

That TOTALLY struck a chord with me as well, it really just stuck out to me n stark contrast to our surrounds and the rest of the movie. It isn't that I don;t understand why she might have to bottle-feed, I mean she was probably traveling and wrapping up a movie after all, it just seemed so sort of, detached or something.

[mizmerricat]

Originally Posted by KimProbable

I cringed when I saw her bottlefeeding, but less because of the message it sent and more because of how difficult it must have been for her to lose out both on a homebirth and breastfeeding.

:

[pampered_mom]

I too cringed when I saw it, but not because it was any reflection on her...more out of sadness because there was another c/s mom who found themselves using formula. More of a reflection on my experience with ds...kind of a shared saddness.

And I totally agree with the reference to Diane Weissinger's lecture - well, that any Hathor's most recent comic series.

[megsy]

Originally Posted by folkgirl

Okay, but the movie is already 84 minutes long. What portions of the film do you think should be removed to make room for comprehensive information about breastfeeding? Or should they just make the movie longer...?

ITA, especially since VBAC was never mentioned and that has to do with birth.

I do have to add, though, that not everyone has bad experiences with NICUs. Our twins were born at 34w and stayed a couple of weeks in the NICU. Not only were we not given a hard time, but we were extremely encouraged to breastfeed -- that was before they knew I was already committed. I realize that my experience isn't necessarily the norm, though.

[francie024]

Originally Posted by Pynki

And, I'M sorry, but I disagree with you. Homebirth and midwifery doesn't mean that people are going to breastfeed and not circ. It just doesn't. The fact that the two of those get enmeshed in MDC land is sort of mind boggling.

Homebirth is GENERALLY about the mother and how she wishes to birth. The fact that an unmedicated birth is generally better for the babe is just a bonus to that.

Child feeding and care are secondary to this. It's like saying Ob's are concerned with breastfeeding rates for the infants. Again, generally, they're just not. They're concerned with the woman's health. And if breastfeeding reduces cancers for the MOM, they will probably give LIP SERVICE to it's benefits. But make no mistake they are in it for WOMEN. And WOMEN are their clientel. Make the WOMAN feel bad for her choices and she isn't coming back to you for care.

The two are enmeshed in MDC. Not the larger birthing community.

I just gave birth 4 weeks ago, and in my experience, midwifery IS tied into breastfeeding, health of baby and the mother. It does not guarantee that women will breastfeed, but most women who go this route do wind up breasfeeding, because they have someone there to help.

The only reason why I did not home birth was because I am a FTM and felt a little insecure about it. I chose to go to a birth center run by midwives. The main reason why I chose the center was because the expertise of the midwife who runs the place, and also the fact that they do not offer drugs. I did not want even want to be tempted. I also know that hospitals are bad for my health, and the babies health, statistically speaking. I knew I'd be more likely to have a c-section there. My choice of birth method was made in regards to baby's health and my health.

I did the research and knew that I was much more likely to be successful at breast feeding my LO at the birthing center. My midwife does not require mothers to breastfeed in her contract, but it is an unspoken rule. Nearly 100% of her clients breastfeed. Her services include someone to help you get started with breast feeding within the first 20 minutes after birth.

Midwifery, health of mother, baby, breastfeeding, home birth were all tied together for me. It was a package deal. The name of the game: avoid drugs if at all possible. All natural is the best for my infant in all aspects. I also plan on rejecting vaccines for as long as possible.

[Kathi13]

Originally Posted by folkgirl

Okay, but the movie is already 84 minutes long. What portions of the film do you think should be removed to make room for comprehensive information about breastfeeding? Or should they just make the movie longer...? That doesn't seem practical to me; also, breastfeeding is a pretty complex topic in and of itself and I think it would really take a whole movie to examine all the things that are wrong with how breastfeeding is handled in our culture and how many women (including NICU moms) are set up to fail.

Yah that.
Honesty I was more struck by her saddness of trying and failing than seeing the bottle - but I guess it is more because of my perspective. Having spent 11 weeks in the NICU with a 28wk preemie and doing everything I could to BF her and recover from a c/s.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by pampered_mom

I too cringed when I saw it, but not because it was any reflection on her...more out of sadness because there was another c/s mom who found themselves using formula. More of a reflection on my experience with ds...kind of a shared saddness.

She said she felt like she'd been in a car wreck & then had this baby...I don't know if *I* would have been successful at BF'ing if that was the way I felt after having a baby. I was definitely in shock & may have had a little PTSD, but I did not feel like a baby came from the car accident I was in!

I felt a lot of sadness for her - so much of what she planned did not happen. I admire her for including all that she did in the film.

Sus

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by francie024

I just gave birth 4 weeks ago, and in my experience, midwifery IS tied into breastfeeding, health of baby and the mother. It does not guarantee that women will breastfeed, but most women who go this route do wind up breasfeeding, because they have someone there to help.

The only reason why I did not home birth was because I am a FTM and felt a little insecure about it. I chose to go to a birth center run by midwives. The main reason why I chose the center was because the expertise of the midwife who runs the place, and also the fact that they do not offer drugs. I did not want even want to be tempted. I also know that hospitals are bad for my health, and the babies health, statistically speaking. I knew I'd be more likely to have a c-section there. My choice of birth method was made in regards to baby's health and my health.

I did the research and knew that I was much more likely to be successful at breast feeding my LO at the birthing center. My midwife does not require mothers to breastfeed in her contract, but it is an unspoken rule. Nearly 100% of her clients breastfeed. Her services include someone to help you get started with breast feeding within the first 20 minutes after birth.

Midwifery, health of mother, baby, breastfeeding, home birth were all tied together for me. It was a package deal. The name of the game: avoid drugs if at all possible. All natural is the best for my infant in all aspects. I also plan on rejecting vaccines for as long as possible.

My whole point was that what is "obvious" on MDC isn't what is obvious to the world at large. Not even those women who go with a home birth or midwives. Sure, midwives may encourage breastfeeding. And their mother's may breastfeed for the 1st few days. Or a month or two. But I'm sorry simply choosing to birth at home with a midwife doesn't in some way automatically mean that woman is going to breastfeed. The two are separate causes.