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Tongue and Lip Tie FAQ - Page 2

post #21 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by arismama! View Post
how common is this problem or set of problems? i too have seen a lot of mdc users discussing this issue and had never really hear much about it before coming here. why the seemingly sudden prevalence i wonder. i guess what i am asking is why would our children be born with a disability in their mouth structure that prevents them from nursing (and evolutionarily speaking therefore surviving) normally? i wonder if this is a modern problem or if it was dealt with differntly in times past. just curious.
tongue tie clipping (frenotomy) is the earliest recorded surgery in history, dating back to ancient Egypt. it dusappeared from pedi texts in the 50s b/c of formula feeding becoming the norm. the problem still existed, but it was "solved" w/bottles.
post #22 of 151
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arismama! View Post
how common is this problem or set of problems? i too have seen a lot of mdc users discussing this issue and had never really hear much about it before coming here. why the seemingly sudden prevalence i wonder. i guess what i am asking is why would our children be born with a disability in their mouth structure that prevents them from nursing (and evolutionarily speaking therefore surviving) normally? i wonder if this is a modern problem or if it was dealt with differntly in times past. just curious.
Stats on prevalence are in post #15.
post #23 of 151
Thread Starter 
Here's another good article, should be available free of charge to anyone. Good to print out & bring to your doctor / midwife if you have TT concerns:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...8&blobtype=pdf

Quote:
The prevalence of pain in mothers breastfeeding infants with ankyloglossia is much higher than that reported in mothers breastfeeding normal infants and clearly presents a considerable problem in terms of continuing breastfeeding. Intensive breastfeeding support is often inadequate for relieving breastfeeding difficulties in babies with ankyloglossia.

Results of studies assessing the effectiveness of frenotomy showed that breastfeeding mechanics improved and maternal pain decreased after the procedure. None of the studies found any serious complications of frenotomy. Given the relatively high prevalence of ankyloglossia, the large proportion of mothers of these infants with nipple pain, the strong association between pain and stopping breastfeeding, and the generally acknowledged health risks associated with not breastfeeding, frenotomy could be of great use as a safe and effective early intervention for breastfeeding problems attributed to ankyloglossia.
post #24 of 151
Thread Starter 
I'm going to try to collect all the names of health professionals who are knowledgeable about TT. I'm going to list Brian Palmer, DDS first. He seems to be quite passionate about BFing and knowledgeable about tongue tie. If you can't find any health professional to help you with your concerns, I would contact Dr. Palmer. I don't know which of the below is the best way to contact him so I will put them all:

Dr. Brian Palmer
3401 W 121st St.
Leawood, Kansas
USA 66209

bpalmerkc3@kc.rr.com

Brian Palmer, D.D.S.
Broadway Medical Bldg.
4400 Broadway, Suite 514
Kansas City, Missouri, 64111-3342.
Office - (816) 561-5578
Fax - (816) 561-5601
E-mail - brianpalmer@kc.rr.com


Dr. Cliff O'Callahan in Middletown, CT.

Elizabeth Coryllos, MD, Long Island, NY
Minneola NY at 516-671-6816 (current as of 2007)

Barbara Latterner, BSN, RN, IBCLC, RLC
Nurturing for the Nursing Couple, Brewster, NY, 845-279-7605.

Dr. Evelyn Jain is a family physician and lactation specialist in Calgary, Canada. She is director of the Lakeview Breastfeeding Clinic,

Dr. Weiner in San Diego area: http://ranchosandiegodental.com/?page=aboutdoctor
(reportedly does not do babies??? see a later post)

Drs. John Coquelet and Denise Punger
4640 S. 25th Street
Ft. Pierce, Florida, 34981
772-466-8884
Info@twofloridadocs.com
http://twofloridadocs.com/

Dr. Daniel Berner
2320 Concord Rd
Lafayette, IN 47909-2710
(765) 477-7436

Fred Margolis, DDS of Buffalo Grove, Illinois.

E-mail: kidzdr@comcast.net
http://www.dentalcompare.com/dentist...26&headerid=63

LC: Pat Shelley, Breastfeeding Center of Greater Washington
http://www.breastfeedingcenter.org/aboutus.html
(202) 293-5182


ENT: Dr. John Bosworth, Siegel & Bosworth, Rockville, MD
Shady Grove Office
15235 Shady Grove Rd.
Suite #100
Rockville, MD 20850
Phone: 240.361.9000
Fax: 240.361.9001

http://www.sb-entcenter.com/ourstaff.html

James Jesse, DDS
1000 East Washington Street
Colton, CA 92324
Phone: (909) 825-7403

E-mail: jamesjessedds@aol.com

Lawrence A. Kotlow, D.D.S.
340 Fuller Road
Albany, NY
(518) 489-2571
kiddsteeth@aol.com

http://www.kiddsteeth.com/articles.htm

Per a parent, Dr. Kotlow has been doing the procedure for years, written about it too. He uses a laser.


Scott A. Siegel, DDS, MD, FACS is a Clinical Assistant Professor @ SUNY Stony Brook School of Medicine and School of Dental Medicine and an Attending Physician, Department of Surgery, at Winthrop University Hospital. He is Board Certified in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and has a special interest in areas of frenectomies and frenoplasties in the oral cavity especially as related to feeding in the newborn/infant and with speech in toddlers and adolescents. He presented a talk on "Significance of Ankyloglosia and the use of CO2 laser (bloodless surgery) in the treatment of these disorders" in 2007 at Winthrop University Hospital so is knowledgeable about laser surgery in this area.

http://www.lioralsurgery.com/meet/meet_siegel.asp

Mineola Office Address:
134 Mineola Boulevard, 3rd Floor
Mineola, NY 11501
Phone:516.294.9696
Fax:516.294.3531

Port Washington Office Address:
14 Vanderventer Avenue, Suite 260
Port Washington, NY 11050
Phone:516.944.8330
Email:info@lioralsurgery.com

James G. Murphy, MD, FAAP, is Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at F. Edward Herbert School of Medicine, Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences. He served 25 years active duty as a physician with the US
Navy and 12 years as a contract pediatrician with the US Navy and is currently a Government Service Medical Officer at Naval Medical Center San Diego, CA. He is a Member of the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine, a
Medical Associate for La Leche League, a Member of the International Lactation Consultants Association, and serves on the board of the San Diego County Breastfeeding Coalition. Dr. Murphy began performing frenotomies in October 2003 and has performed over 300 infant frenotomies to date, including posterior submucosal fibrous bands.

LC: Pat Shelley, Breastfeeding Center of Greater Washington


Christina Smillie, MD - Breastfeeding Resources
Address: 2505 Main St # 223, Stratford, CT 06615
Phone: (203) 375-5812


Penny Soppas, M.D., IBCLC
Drexel Hill Pediatric Associates
5030 State Rd # 2-900
Drexel Hill, PA 19026
Phone: (610) 623-9080 Fax: (610) 623-3861

http://www.drexelhillpeds.com/peds/index.html#Soppas

From a MDC mama....I have another resource for tongue tie...he clipped my son's submucosal tie about 2 weeks ago. It's getting slowly better.

Dr. Greg Notestine DDS
Beavercreek OH
http://www.gregnotestine.com/

His sister was a LLL leader years ago, and he has published research on breastfeeding and TT. http://jhl.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/6/3/113


I was also told there is a Dr. Michael Rutter, an ENT at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. He is from Australia and understands tongue tie and breastfeeding.
Michael J. Rutter, MD
Pediatric Otolaryngologist and Director of Clinical Research
Associate Professor, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
Email mike.rutter@cchmc.org
Phone 513-636-4355
Fax 513-636-8133
http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/s...ael-rutter.htm
post #25 of 151
I just posted a separate post. Connor had his lip tie surgically corrected today. It was done under general anesthesia because of the severity of it. It was actually tied in FIVE different places. I'll post an update in a few days when the swelling and pain have subsided some.
post #26 of 151
how do we get this stickied?
post #27 of 151

I would love this to be a sticky!!!

My son was also born with a tongue tie.
Because of this we had a lot of problems BF - he lost a lot of weight and becamse very dehydrated. ( I was a first time mum and very scared and upset and confused at the same time!)
But his tongue tie was never addressed......Unfotunatly for us, we were unable to continue our breastfeeding relationship (which didnt last very long ) because of lack of help and support and wrong advice and my trusting everyone being a first time mum! ...
Luckily for my son though - I could pump like mad and I swear I could feed the world...but for him at least he got the milk that was rightly his!!!

Then I learned about tongue tie. I knew my son had it from day one. I was also born with tongue tie. I had mine clipped when I was 8 years old - it was not nice. But I also learned something new...my DH was also born tongue tied! Things you dont think about - things you connect later... Well I am quite positive, when the time comes, our next child will also be born tongue tied. But what I didnt know was how this effected BF and why I was having so much trouble and how to fix the problem until it was too late. My DS still gets some of my milk now and ever since I could I tried to re-establish a BF relationship with him...but no luck.

His tongue is not clipped though - like mine, I will have it clipped later if it shows any other problems for him (like speech), otherwise I wouldnt put him through that either. However I do think I will deffinatly have my next child, when that times comes, clipped right away to save the heartache down the road. Though I would love more information on this as well...I am planning a large age gap though so I have a few years yet! hehe

Here are some photos of my son - you can see the tongue tie in these photos. Its funny I never think about it until we are around other children - then I can really see the difference!!! My DS is nearly 29 months old and can just now start to lick his bottom lip a bit - hes never been able to stick it out far enough to do that before!!!

http://images-010.cdn.piczo.com/i1/v...724_3985_3.jpg

http://images-010.cdn.piczo.com/i1/v...16_32743_3.jpg

BF is more than just nutrition - and even to this day I have to deal with that loss becasue of the lack of help and information I had. I dont want any other mother going through that

I am just glad that I know what I know now so that I can succesffuly BF next time around! - A sticky of this would really help I feel for any other mums!!!
post #28 of 151
Thread Starter 
I have PM'd the moderators of this forum, but not heard anything yet. I will try again, and if you want to try too that might work
post #29 of 151
Thread Starter 
post #30 of 151
I've learned more about tongue-tie from reading this thread than I knew before, and my son had surgery for it.

The birth center where my son was born generally made sure babies had breastfed at least once before being sent home, but we were an unfortunate exception. I had successfully breastfed a baby once before, and the staff there at the time weren't as familiar with bf issues. We were sent home after 8 hours, but he hadn't latched on at all.

A few hours after that, he was screaming full-steam and still hadn't breastfed. I called the birth center to tell them, and they advised spoon-feeding water to ensure against dehydration until he latched on.

24 hours later, I called a LLL leader I didn't know and just cried into the phone for about 20 minutes before I could tell her I had a day-old newborn who hadn't had anything but water since he was born. She was shocked I hadn't supplemented yet, and I felt better hearing from an LLL leader that my frustration wasn't without cause. She recommended expressing milk and giving to him via spoon or syringe until I could get medical help.

I called the birth center again and they immediately sent a nurse for a home visit. She had years of experience working alongside Lactation Consultants in a hospital, and she was really a blessing. She took one glance at him and said he was so severely tongue-tied he couldn't move his tongue at all. The sides went up and down a bit as he cried, but the middle was firmly planted to the bottom of his mouth such that he couldn't move it up or forward at all.

This nurse made some phone calls and spent the rest of the morning arranging for him to have a surgery. I only wish she had been the L&D nurse at his birth, so that she could have seen him sooner!

Even with the help, it was 6 days before we could get him scheduled for surgery in the hospital. By that time, he was almost exclusively formula fed since I didn't have a good pump and wasn't prepared for expressing. It took 3 months of supplementing before he was finally latching well enough to breastfeed exclusively.

Sorry this was long, but it's a sore spot with me since I feel our case wasn't handled well. I knew nothing of tongue-ties before my son was born, and unfortunately most of the medical staff I contacted didn't know either. We were able to breastfeed in the end, but after months of related problems that could have been prevented had his tongue been clipped on the day he was born instead of after nearly a week.
post #31 of 151
I'd love to hear how to BF a tongue tied baby. My baby has a severe sucking problem and is unable to get much milk. I've had a lot of support from a LC and we have tried everything to help her. Nothing is working. I've had to resort to pumping and bottle feeding. I'm getting the tongue tie assessed.
post #32 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmapants View Post
I'd love to hear how to BF a tongue tied baby. My baby has a severe sucking problem and is unable to get much milk. I've had a lot of support from a LC and we have tried everything to help her. Nothing is working. I've had to resort to pumping and bottle feeding. I'm getting the tongue tie assessed.
I had a friend who just massaged the frenulum - that stretchy bit of skin under the tongue causing the 'tongue tie' issues... She said that really helped stretch it out a bit so her DD could get a better latch.
post #33 of 151

Update on lip tie surgery

It's been 9 days now since Connor had his upper lip "released". He had FIVE frenulums, the one between his front teeth being the thickest, the other four were pretty minor. He had them surgically released and stitched under general anesthesia.

He's doing well now. Still some swelling, a bit of bleeding once in a while, but it doesn't appear to hurt him anymore. He's been breastfeeding well since right after surgery, although he doesn't appear to have much movement of his upper lip yet.

The surgeon just released the lip, he didn't cut the frenulum away from Connor's gumline. He said it will likely recede on its own now that it's been released from the lip. That's the only part that's making me nervous because his two front teeth are already spaced due to the frenulum. I hope as the swelling goes down, the skin will recede and his teeth will move together. If not, we'll just have to have it done before his adult teeth come in (check out Dr Palmer's page for pictures of what an upper frenulum does to adult teeth)
post #34 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
It's been 9 days now since Connor had his upper lip "released". He had FIVE frenulums, the one between his front teeth being the thickest, the other four were pretty minor. He had them surgically released and stitched under general anesthesia.

He's doing well now. Still some swelling, a bit of bleeding once in a while, but it doesn't appear to hurt him anymore. He's been breastfeeding well since right after surgery, although he doesn't appear to have much movement of his upper lip yet.

The surgeon just released the lip, he didn't cut the frenulum away from Connor's gumline. He said it will likely recede on its own now that it's been released from the lip. That's the only part that's making me nervous because his two front teeth are already spaced due to the frenulum. I hope as the swelling goes down, the skin will recede and his teeth will move together. If not, we'll just have to have it done before his adult teeth come in (check out Dr Palmer's page for pictures of what an upper frenulum does to adult teeth)
That is very good to hear hun!

Can I just be nosey and ask those whos children who do have lip tie to show me some photos? - Maybe its just me, but Google is actually pretty useless on this one! - And tbh, I have never heard of lip tie until I read this thread!!!
I would be interrested to see some close up photos of what a lip tie looks like - also because, just reading from the descriptions, its something I feel that my son may also have (though I try not to be a paranoid mum! hehe) - his top lip has always just looked odd to me - that skin in the middle fo the lip on me for example is right up at the very top but on my son its right down to the middle of where his teeth are and the rest of his top lip seems really shallow (thats the best word I can find for it)...I can run my finger all along my top gum but you cant him.
post #35 of 151
Firstly, if your baby is under one year then get it clipped by the pediatrician or a doctor who does it often. Then if your child is 5 and older, Please, consider laser for getting the frenulum clipped. I highly recommend it over surgery. It is so much less invasive and all it takes is an office visit and minimal discomfort after the procedure, (my dd had it with laser and no disomfort whatsoever).
post #36 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirada View Post
Firstly, if your baby is under one year then get it clipped by the pediatrician or a doctor who does it often. Then if your child is 5 and older, Please, consider laser for getting the frenulum clipped. I highly recommend it over surgery. It is so much less invasive and all it takes is an office visit and minimal discomfort after the procedure, (my dd had it with laser and no disomfort whatsoever).
I think 'discomfort' is probably going to be different for every individual. I had mine done with lazer when I was 8 years old - although I thought the lazer bit was very cool, it was very painful for three days afterwards...I remember it very well.

However, I assume surgery requires going under general? Whilst all mine was, was a trip to the dentist - sure it invovled some needles but I was awake for all of it - and yes, that is probably less invasive than going to the hospital.

The trick is to get it done ASAP - however some people dont like to do this, and then it becomes and issue later on down the road where they have to get it done then (like me - it was an issue for my speech)...
I wouldnt dream of getting my sons clipped now at the age he is - I am just waiting to see if it presents any other issues besides our lack to be able to BF. But knowing what I know now, my next child (since its highly likey they will also be tongue tied due to the fact both DH and I were born that way - I dont know much about genetics, but I would say the odds are against us there because of that) will have it clipped ASAP after birth in order to save us both the heartache and troubles then and anything that might present itself in the future. I could faff about with other techniques before resorting to clipping, but I have been there and done that and its not a road I want to take again. And I would deffinatly recommend to any mother reading this to get their childs tongue clipped right away after birth if you know they have a tongue tie - I really dont think its going to traumatise them and I cant really think of any other reason not to get it clipped unless you really like a challenge with possible very sore nipples and a baby who just cant seem to gain any weight!
post #37 of 151
Thread Starter 
Brian Palmer's slide show has pics of labial (lip) ties on #44 and #45. WARNING: IF YOU ARE SQUEAMISH GO THROUGH THE OTHER SLIDES FAST. THEY HAVE PICS OF INFANT AUTOPSIES. THERE IS A SLIDEY BUTTON ON THE RIGHT TO SCROLL DOWN FAST.

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/pdf/Bfing_Frenum03.pdf

Here's some before & after surgery pics of lip and tongue tie:

http://www.dentalcompare.com/feature...?articleid=296
post #38 of 151
Thanks for posting the slide show. I read the whole thing. I learned a great deal, and I now see my son's surgery in a different light. I wanted it does ASAP so he could nurse, but now I see that we actually prevented a number of other physical problems as well by having the surgery done early.

I wish I had a picture of his mouth at the time, but then, that's not a typical baby picture. I think his was more severe than most of the pictures there. They showed people moving their tongues upward so you could see the tight frenulum. His tongue didn't really move at all.
post #39 of 151
I learned alot as well!...and I do think my son has a lip tie, but not as sever as the one they showed in that slide who. His middle skin goes just to the top of the teeth...down down between the teeth like that pictured showed!

I also know now why I have a narrow and high palate! Which has always been an issue a bit...my tongue never feels to 'fit' in my mouth.
post #40 of 151
Hi Im new to this forum so not sure if I'm posting in the right place.

My son Beren now 14 weeks had a type 4 tongue tie, snipped at 8 weeks. However he still has major probs sucking- both breast and bottle. He basically is acting as though the tongue tie is still there, he gets very stressed at the breast, tries biting me and cannot extract enough milk out. With the bottle (expressed milk) he still acts the same, clicking, gagging and coughing as though he is unable to control the flow (its only a slow flow teat)
At first we thought there might be another prob like a sub mucous cleft, but the ENT consultants cant find anything obvious.
I was interested in Superfasttreader's tongue tie story as you mentioned that you still had probs with gagging and your palate ( he does seem to have a high palate ) Also emmapants mentioned that her baby was still having probs with bf.
Any suggestions would be helpful as to what we can do next, have tried lc's ENTS and paeds but noone has spotted anything. We are in England so Cathy Watson Genna and Liz Coryllos are a bit far away!
Two people mentioned lip ties as being a prob too, how do I know if he has got one of these? He certainly seems to move his lips around a lot when feeding.
There is a massive lack of knowledge over here in UK... I basically had to diagnose the tt myself through the symptoms I was having, it seems like the docs don't have a clue.
Thanks for reading, we are quite desparate for answers now... still pumping day and night but have very sore nipples so its getting harder everyday.
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