or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"soulja boy" - Page 6

post #101 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellemarie View Post
I know there are very serious themes in this thread, but I am cracking UP. That guy reading the lyrics all spoken-word, open mic night is KILLING ME.

I like that song. I think it is fun to listen to. I knew the lyrics couldn't mean anything good, but I still like it. My son likes that song and can sing along with it. (He doesn't want me to tell his dad, though, because he is only supposed to like rock - the hairier the better.)

My son doesn't want to know what those lyrics mean. He just wants to enjoy the song.

When I read the definition for "superman", I laughed. If someone really does that, it's horrible and not at all funny. But hypothetically? I'm sorry. I laughed.

Please don't suggest that anything that might possibly in some way be offensive to someone somewhere be taken off the radio and off the shelves. If the happy fluffy bunnies take over, I am so out of here. People need to learn to deal with different attitudes and behavior. I know the ways in which I'll be discriminated against; the things that have nothing to do with my personality or behavior that people will dislike me for. It is my reality and I have to find ways to cope with it. Please don't try to do that for me. We can't make the world one big padded room. Even if we could, I'd vote against it. I like my oranges sweet and juicy and getting a bad one in the bunch makes the good ones that much better.

Do you think it is funny to degrade women? I'm frankly shocked that you would even laugh at the definition. Is hypothetical racism funny too? Because I really don't see the difference between degrading someone because of their skin color and degrading someone because of their gender. Both are wrong and should not be supported or encouraged.
post #102 of 184

For a lot of songs, once I hear the Weird Al version the "regular" version is too boring. For some of them, the regular version also doesn't scan well enough or have enough of a melody.

Back on topic, there is a huge difference between not buying something yourself and censorship. Wishing for the magical ability to make artists stop producing misogynist music is not the same as wishing that the misogynist music would be outlawed.

Interestingly, the misogynist music problem isn't new or limited to one genre:
from the 1930's "hello my baby, hello my honey....if you refuse me, honey you'll lose me"
And from the world of top-40's pop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S8wBNoiv90 check out the commentary on Sugar Ray.

(The guy reading it is hysterical! This site is similarly funny, but not kid friendly: http://www.raptranslations.com/ )
post #103 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiromamma View Post
It disturbs me that exercising discernment is too often seen as judgemental and advocating censorship.
The C-word is such a hot word to throw at parents who choose not to expose their children to things we see as harmful.
Is it censorship to limit our childrens' intake of sugar, drugs (legal & illegal) or for some, animal products?
For me, degrading, de-humanizng music is as toxic to my childrens' nervous systems and spirits as diet coke, lunchables and vaccinations are to their bodies.
I lean very left and my kids are exposed to many lifestyle choices.
But I'm sorry. I don't feel that everything is OK. My children do not need to learn to tolerate "art forms" that are offensive and degrading. As a matter of fact I want them to stand up and say, "This is not OK."
That's how they'll change the world.
It's my job as a parent to see to that what goes in to their bodies, minds and souls is as pure and supportive of life as possible.
I like to think I've done an OK job so far.
I am all for free speech but not free exposure for children.
Censorship came up for me when someone stated that s/he wished s/he could silence the artists and not allow their music to be disseminated. That is censorship.

Here is the concern I have with what you have posted, and it may not be what you meant at all, in which case, please correct me. What happens if you do everything you can to make sure your children agree with you but they don't? That is a possibility. They are individuals with their own minds and they can think whatever they choose. You may be able to control what they are exposed to when they are with you but you cannot control that exposure 24/7/365. You can never control what they think. Have you left room for them to disagree with you and still be accepted by you or would you reject them as much as you reject those ideas?

I don't think anyone has advocated purposely exposing our children to offensive media. We are talking about how to handle it once they have been exposed to it, especially if they like it.
post #104 of 184
Thread Starter 
I'm the OP and I'm back.

I've been lurking for awhile because I've had mixed feelings about all this. I did what a few of you mentioned. I explained to her why I don't care for the song and told her that supermanning and supersoaking are sexual acts that are against women. She didn't like that too much but continues to do the dance every chance she gets. I did point out that the dance can be done to almost any upbeat song if she tries.

We do not own this song in any form. She does go watch the link of the ballet class dancing to it because she loves the way the little boy up front does it. She's REALLY into dance.

I shouldn't have said "censorship" to begin with. I know, as well as anyone else, that doesn't work. As a teen, if my dad didn't like a boyfriend, all the more reason to keep dating him. It's all about rebelling at that age, at least it was for me, and I don't want it to be that way for my child. That took me down roads I'd never wish on my dd.

I'm not saying I feel any differently about the song than before. I still strongly dislike it and it drives me crazy to think that a song with those ideas is being marketed toward children. It's really alot like using Joe Camel to market ciggies to young kids.

My main idea now is that media literacy is what is most important. As alot of you said, teaching our children to read the media instead of completely cutting it out. What's going to happen if we completely cut it out while they are kids? When they are old enough to gain independance how will they handle these ideas that we've sheltered them from? We need to teach our young boys and girls that songs like these are not an indication of how women OR men should be treated. It's inhumane.

I agree with both sides on different issues. NO to censorship, yes to open communication, NO to supporting these artists in any way, yes to media literacy education for ALL children.

These songs will always be around as bad as that sucks. No matter how much of an uproar we cause, the artists will still create whatever makes them cool and rich. If it takes dehumanizing women, race, or what have you, that's what they'll do. The only way I know to hopefully make a difference is teaching our kids good values so they can handle exposure to this crap (and not putting ANY money in those artists pockets!). It may also be a good idea to make a stink about public education systems implementing a media literacy program. Not just for this junky music, but to help the kids "read" commercials, magazine ads, etc. and know that they ARE good enough without this or that.

Even though there has been alot of fire-throwing in this thread, I must say I've really appreciated getting opinions from all sides. It's amazing that in all our differences we all have one thing definately in common---we are all here for the sake of good parenting, whatever way that may be for each of us.
post #105 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
Do you think it is funny to degrade women? I'm frankly shocked that you would even laugh at the definition. Is hypothetical racism funny too? Because I really don't see the difference between degrading someone because of their skin color and degrading someone because of their gender. Both are wrong and should not be supported or encouraged.
Nope. I don't think it is at all funny to degrade women. I don't support or encourage degrading anyone.

I do think that heavy things can be joked about and laughed at without disregarding how serious they are on a larger scale. And I did say that someone really doing that to another person would be horrible and not at all funny.
post #106 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
Do you think it is funny to degrade women? I'm frankly shocked that you would even laugh at the definition. Is hypothetical racism funny too? Because I really don't see the difference between degrading someone because of their skin color and degrading someone because of their gender. Both are wrong and should not be supported or encouraged.

You yourself bolded the line "If someone really does that, it's horrible and not at all funny." So I'm just really really confused about why you even asked her the question?
When I first read this thread a while back, I laughed too when I finally read the 'superman' definition! It was so unexpected and outta left field, and stupefying, I just laughed my butt off! DH did too. So did our pop-music-hating best friends.

Maybe I'm going to regret bringing this up, but nobody has addressed it yet. What about songs that are rude/degrading towards men? Sure, maybe there aren't so many of them and they're not so blatant, but they're there. Man, I was in the car wash line yesterday and 'Hit 'Em Up Style' by Blu Cantrell came on the radio. I rocked right out to it. Was that a bad thing?
I guess I just wanted to bring a different question to the table rather than keep beating a dead horse. I wonder how many songs make it through parental filters because they DON'T target a commonly victimized group? What about when Eminem puts down other men? What about when Lily Allen sings about her brother's pot addiction, or getting back at her cheatin' ex in "Smile"? Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats"? Oh man, if we started on women artists singing about the things they'd like to do to cheating exes, I bet we could go back a couple of generations and find plenty of popular songs. I don't think we'd want to encourage that kind of behavior in our daughters either, but is it ok to listen to?
I guess so many people have said it so much better. While I'm all for controlling what a child hears to a certain extent to coincide with his/her maturity level, I think that the sheltering can definitely go too far. I'd rather be able to have open intelligent discussions with my kids about what they're hearing and how they feel about it, and let them use their own brains. Because there are a lot of unpleasant things out in the real world that they will need the tools to deal with. As long as people are on this Earth, that's not gonna change.
post #107 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiromamma View Post
It disturbs me that exercising discernment is too often seen as judgemental and advocating censorship.
I think there is a difference in personal tastes/values and outright banning.

Quote:
The C-word is such a hot word to throw at parents who choose not to expose their children to things we see as harmful.
Is it censorship to limit our childrens' intake of sugar, drugs (legal & illegal) or for some, animal products?
Many families handle sugar issues and such the same way they do media (song lyrics, TV, etc)- with conversation and modeling positive choices. I think it's also relevant that we are in the pre-teen/ teen forum. I don't limit my 14 or 16 year olds sugar intake or their song choices. I am a vegetarian and so is my Dd, but she made that decision on her own. My son eats meat, eggs, and dairy without issue.

Quote:
For me, degrading, de-humanizng music is as toxic to my childrens' nervous systems and spirits as diet coke, lunchables and vaccinations are to their bodies.
My children are free to eat Lunchables (though it's been awhile since they wanted one), drink diet Coke (Ds is drinking Diet Dew as I type this actually), and be vaccinated. Of course when they were infants or very young I made the bulk of these decisions for them because they were too young to care then, but they are old enough now for sure. I think it would be highly inappropriate to tell my 16 -going on 17 year old what he can and cannot listen to.

Quote:
I lean very left and my kids are exposed to many lifestyle choices.
But I'm sorry. I don't feel that everything is OK.
I do not feel that everything has value, and neither do my kids. Usually we agree on those kinds of things, but not always.
post #108 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by elleystar View Post
What about when Lily Allen sings about her brother's pot addiction, or getting back at her cheatin' ex in "Smile"? Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats"? Oh man, if we started on women artists singing about the things they'd like to do to cheating exes, I bet we could go back a couple of generations and find plenty of popular songs. I don't think we'd want to encourage that kind of behavior in our daughters either, but is it ok to listen to?
Dd has both these songs on her playlist and they've been really great to talk about! One we recently discusses was Carrie Underwood's new one "All American Girl" .
post #109 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellemarie View Post
Nope. I don't think it is at all funny to degrade women. I don't support or encourage degrading anyone.

I do think that heavy things can be joked about and laughed at without disregarding how serious they are on a larger scale. And I did say that someone really doing that to another person would be horrible and not at all funny.

I guess I'm going to be the odd one then because I can't find anything remotely amusing about degrading a woman, not even hypothetically. It makes me feel sick to think that a guy might grow up thinking it is cool and okay to treat the women in his life this way.

I do not think that these artist should be censored, but I do wish that society send the message that glorifying these types of acts is not acceptable by not making these songs popular. I don't listen to or buy songs that are racist or degrading of people in regards to their gender because I don't want to support these artist or songs in any way.
post #110 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellemarie:
Nope. I don't think it is at all funny to degrade women. I don't support or encourage degrading anyone.

I do think that heavy things can be joked about and laughed at without disregarding how serious they are on a larger scale. And I did say that someone really doing that to another person would be horrible and not at all funny.


Originally Posted by felix23:
I guess I'm going to be the odd one then because I can't find anything remotely amusing about degrading a woman, not even hypothetically. It makes me feel sick to think that a guy might grow up thinking it is cool and okay to treat the women in his life this way.
I think that "hypothetically" might not have been the best word to use, but I don't think I need to keep getting prodded at for saying that "If someone really does that, it's horrible and not at all funny."

I hardly think it makes you "odd" because you aren't amused by degradation of women. Perhaps it makes you a better, more enlightened person - which is what I think you really want to hear.

There. You win.
post #111 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellemarie View Post
I think that "hypothetically" might not have been the best word to use, but I don't think I need to keep getting prodded at for saying that "If someone really does that, it's horrible and not at all funny."

I hardly think it makes you "odd" because you aren't amused by degradation of women. Perhaps it makes you a better, more enlightened person - which is what I think you really want to hear.

There. You win.

I think it's them that wins really. Them being the misogynists( an ever-growing breed) and the profit-making opportunistic record labels/artists. It is imperative that the next generation of misogynists get into the groove as early as possible. I find it odd that people would want to disseminate the lyrics of say soulja boy, voice their disagreement with said lyrics and still listen to the crap. Seems a bit hypocritical but can be washed off as allowing free speech while anyone who doesn't want to encourage this stuff is labelled as censoring. I doubt the moms who are voicing discontent with said lyrics are doing any such thing as it is not necessary for the simple reason that children who have thought about what these lyrics imply and who whole-heartedly disagree with the debasment of women through music are not going to want to listen to it anyway, no matter how hard it's being forced on them. There is nothing sugar-coated about that unlike the lyrics to soulja boy.
If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it? That attitude never helped anyone I know to quit smoking as a child. I can't see lyrics like these being healthy for a child, or anyone for that matter. They can dance to anything. Maybe , like movies, there should be a warning like 'explicit lyrical content' etc except these clever little people have used coded language to slip in their ulterior motive. Gah! Children are being used by these corporate ho's, adding some 'healthy', hidden and sugar-coated misogyny into the mix is guaranteed to draw attention and fulfill the misogynistic dream that all females be ejaculated on( and all the other stuff they want to do to us) thereby putting us in 'our place'. Lets be brave and move on from this sad and dangerous state and educate our dc about the mass brain-washing being aimed directly at them and what that really means instead of enabling and encouraging them to participate. It's up to us after all. It's quite easy to do and you don't have to censor anything, just open their minds to new possibilities that do not condone abuse towards women through music or any other means.
post #112 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
Maybe , like movies, there should be a warning like 'explicit lyrical content' etc
Music CDs do have warning labels on them.
post #113 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
I find it odd that people would want to disseminate the lyrics of say soulja boy, voice their disagreement with said lyrics and still listen to the crap. Seems a bit hypocritical but can be washed off as allowing free speech while anyone who doesn't want to encourage this stuff is labelled as censoring.
I understand the appeal of the song aside from the lyrics. It is bouncy, catchy, fun. I think we can ask our kids what those lyrics mean to them. "What do you think he's talking about there?" I don't think we always have to tell them, "That means something really, really bad." I think that sometimes, that's worse than letting them think it's just about a dance or a comic book hero. I've looked at the song and considered how it affects my child and decided how to handle it accordingly.

Part of the problem here is this: Many, many songs can be picked apart and hidden (or not so hidden) meanings can be found that ruin our enjoyment of the song. I don't want to be looking for what is wrong with everything. Sometimes, I just want to enjoy it.

That doesn't mean I enjoy people hating on women. There is a difference there that I don't see as hypocritical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it? That attitude never helped anyone I know to quit smoking as a child. I can't see lyrics like these being healthy for a child, or anyone for that matter.
I think the negative effects of overeating Big Macs and smoking are more direct and immediate than listening to lyrics. Also, excessive consumption and smoking are also behaviors. The risks involved there are more immediate. I agree that a cumulative effect of listening to offensive lyrics is dangerous and parents should take time to talk about them. But they are ideas, not behaviors. Ideas that could become behaviors, but are indeed ideas. That you can influence without banning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
Maybe , like movies, there should be a warning like 'explicit lyrical content' etc except these clever little people have used coded language to slip in their ulterior motive. Gah! Children are being used by these corporate ho's, adding some 'healthy', hidden and sugar-coated misogyny into the mix is guaranteed to draw attention and fulfill the misogynistic dream that all females be ejaculated on( and all the other stuff they want to do to us) thereby putting us in 'our place'.
I think this is giving them too much credit. I find it hard to believe they think about it that much. I do think they think about making money and "Ha ha, my friends will think this is funny."


Quote:
Originally Posted by forthebest View Post
Lets be brave and move on from this sad and dangerous state and educate our dc about the mass brain-washing being aimed directly at them and what that really means instead of enabling and encouraging them to participate. It's up to us after all. It's quite easy to do and you don't have to censor anything, just open their minds to new possibilities that do not condone abuse towards women through music or any other means.
I don't condone the abuse of women. I do talk to my children about underlying meanings in media messages.

Watching my daughter playing today, I thought about this thread and decided that it is more important - and effective - to teach her how to see these meanings and what to do about them for herself. It is my job to protect her when she's a child, but I think it is imperative to equip her to handled these things her way. If that means she's outraged by lyrics like these as an adult and wants to start a campaign against them, fine. If that means she dismisses them as a joke and doesn't find them to be a threat to her, that's fine, too.
post #114 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
Music CDs do have warning labels on them.
Some of them are able to get around the labeling by using other words for the acts, like "superman". This particular CD IS labeled, but not all of them are.
post #115 of 184
It's pretty easy these days to research a CD, artist, or song before you make a purchase. We do it all the time. This way you won't have any reason to be caught off guard by "superman" type lyrics, and you can decide to buy or not buy based on your personal comfort level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chellemarie
I understand the appeal of the song aside from the lyrics. It is bouncy, catchy, fun. I think we can ask our kids what those lyrics mean to them. "What do you think he's talking about there?"
Exactly. This is has been our experience and approach as well.
post #116 of 184

It's not like cooties...

The thing that throws me again and again are the comments that come out swinging against censorship, in such a way that it presupposes that anyone here has implied or stated that we want to live in an insulated, padded room surrounded by bunnies, or whatever. We don't want rap (and several other presumed cultural affronts) anywhere near us, touching us, we don't want our children to EVER know what they say...

Wrong, with a big "W," as we used to say a million years ago.

Censorship is too much and sitting quiet is too little. It's an issue that clearly, for many of us is something important and merits real honesty in how it affects us and our children, not in our delusions of pure, sterile, SAFE childhood. No, we simply observe that, well, "garbage in, garbage out." If we allow garbage to go in, garbage will come out. It's not a matter of screaming to clap our hands on our 13 year old boy's ears before he hears it. We just want to say, hey, we've identified some garbage you might want to protect your children from hearing where you can protect them from hearing, and knowing why (age appropriately).

I support anyone who would become an activisit to go further with public awareness of it. If I had a magic wand, I wound send it all to a Happy Place to get an attitude adjustment (my garage), and get it out, out, out of the mass communication venues, like radio, tv, and record sales. And I would do many, many things if I had a magic wand, but that is pure fantasy and wishful thinking, and I understand one can only go so far down that road toward "censorship," lest you end up losing completely.

As for women's songs that denigrate men, I say, it's the voices of the oppressed expressing themselves. I'd like a songlist of those if someone has one. I'd like to put them in my ipod for research hour. La, la, la, la, la... "and Earl had to die. Na na na na na na, na, na na..." Dixie Chicks.

Night... finally. Long, long weekend...

VF
post #117 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viewfinder View Post
The thing that throws me again and again are the comments that come out swinging against censorship, in such a way that it presupposes that anyone here has implied or stated that we want to live in an insulated, padded room surrounded by bunnies, or whatever..................

Censorship is too much and sitting quiet is too little. It's an issue that clearly, for many of us is something important and merits real honesty in how it affects us and our children......
The thing that throws me is the idea that the people who aren't refusing to allow their kids/teens to hear this music are just "sitting quiet". It's as if you think that because we handle this issue differently than you that we are pro misogynistic lyrics. Wrong with the big "W" indeed.

In other words-we aren't "sitting quiet" either.


Quote:
No, we simply observe that, well, "garbage in, garbage out." If we allow garbage to go in, garbage will come out.
Okay, but some of us have observed that "garbage in/garbage out" is not a fate we are doomed to.
post #118 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by elleystar View Post
Maybe I'm going to regret bringing this up, but nobody has addressed it yet. What about songs that are rude/degrading towards men?
This is a point I was going to make about the media in general. Maybe it is different inthe US but the tv and print media here is full of negativity towards men.

When I read the definition of superman my first thought was 'People actually bother to do that?' followed by 'I think I would notice if someone did that to me long before a sheet got stuck to my back.....' Then in terms of men doing yukky things to women I remembered a Toyota ad here which shows a young man shutting his girlfriend's car door with his foot and the next day she gives him a lift and lets him out of the car over an open manhole which he falls into. There is another similar ad where the man does something to the car and she breaks his golfclubs.


That kind of advertising with the boot on the other foot is absolutely no-no here and people would be raving.

Modelling poor treatment of men or women is common in all walks of life and talking about how we feel about it with our children is better than telling them they can't see it or what they saw shouldn't have been seen or heard.
post #119 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viewfinder View Post
The thing that throws me again and again are the comments that come out swinging against censorship, in such a way that it presupposes that anyone here has implied or stated that we want to live in an insulated, padded room surrounded by bunnies, or whatever. We don't want rap (and several other presumed cultural affronts) anywhere near us, touching us, we don't want our children to EVER know what they say...

Wrong, with a big "W," as we used to say a million years ago.

Censorship is too much and sitting quiet is too little. It's an issue that clearly, for many of us is something important and merits real honesty in how it affects us and our children, not in our delusions of pure, sterile, SAFE childhood. No, we simply observe that, well, "garbage in, garbage out." If we allow garbage to go in, garbage will come out. It's not a matter of screaming to clap our hands on our 13 year old boy's ears before he hears it. We just want to say, hey, we've identified some garbage you might want to protect your children from hearing where you can protect them from hearing, and knowing why (age appropriately).

I support anyone who would become an activisit to go further with public awareness of it. If I had a magic wand, I wound send it all to a Happy Place to get an attitude adjustment (my garage), and get it out, out, out of the mass communication venues, like radio, tv, and record sales. And I would do many, many things if I had a magic wand, but that is pure fantasy and wishful thinking, and I understand one can only go so far down that road toward "censorship," lest you end up losing completely.

As for women's songs that denigrate men, I say, it's the voices of the oppressed expressing themselves. I'd like a songlist of those if someone has one. I'd like to put them in my ipod for research hour. La, la, la, la, la... "and Earl had to die. Na na na na na na, na, na na..." Dixie Chicks.

Night... finally. Long, long weekend...

VF
Emphasis mine.

Based on your comments here, I think you by and large hate men, Viewfinder.

orangefoot brings up an important point. Most current sitcoms feature a bumbling fool of a male with a strong, outspoken woman who keeps him in line. Others show men as completely incapable of controlling their desires. All of these things are unfair stereotypes. I don't believe most men feel or behave this way (though I think some are hiding behind what I call "Raymond Syndrome") and I don't believe that most men actively hate women.

Regarding the bold parts of the quote above: You WOULD like to smash it out, see our society rid of lyrics that you deem misogynistic. If you were given that opportunity, I would try to stop you. I think it is dangerous to limit anyone's speech because eventually, it will come back to US. "Well, if they can't say this, you can't say that." Also, It would save you a lot of time and energy because erasing it is impossible. Educating our kids to see what people are really saying between the lines is the best way to take the power out of speech like that.
post #120 of 184
Has anyone actually looked up the lyrics to this song? He is actually saying OH, not HO. Which kind of changes everything, don't you think?

Here's his website...
http://www.souljaboytellem.com
Click "lyrics" and then "crank dat."

Also, check out some of the lyrics from "Soulja girl"

"She callin me
I'm callin her
She followin me
I'm followin her
My mama picked up the phone
She like "you got this girl sprung"
She got my spring too
She said "both of y'all dumb"
But I'm diggin' her
She diggin' me
And she so cute
And she so lovely"

Hardly mysoginistic, IMO.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Preteens and Teens