|
Originally Posted by forthebest
 If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it?
|
|
Originally Posted by prettypixels
Has anyone actually looked up the lyrics to this song? He is actually saying OH, not HO. Which kind of changes everything, don't you think?
|
|
Originally Posted by queenjane
How old are your kids?
I thought we were talking about teens/preteens in this conversation (so, maybe age 10+), not saying to a three yr old "Hey, want to listen to this misogynistic song? let me define superman for ya..." If your teen wants to eat 20 Big Macs, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what? If your teen starts smoking, and you think thats terrible, you will do.....what? I dont want my 11 yr old to eat 20 Big Macs or start to smoke, but the only thing i can do is to give him enough information and empower him to make better choices. I can put limits on things if i want (like, i could tell him he has to buy Big Macs with his own money, or tell him i dont want smoking in the house) but beyond that....what really are you going to do? Lock your teenager in his room until he promises never to smoke again? *That* is what i think people in this thread are saying. That they give their kids lots of information, perhaps their own insight or opinion, but in the end they recognize their child's ability to do what is best for themselves. Certainly you might provide more direction when the child is a toddler...but in the end the child will make their own decisions. You can't force them to believe what you believe. And i think if you provide them lots of info, keep the lines of communication open, and then let them go, you have a better chance of having a child that makes decision for himself and not just because of peer pressure or whatever. Katherine |
, treating women like trash is acceptable and groovalicious and indeed will be promoted to an ever-widening, ever younger audience and I reckon as parents we need to oppose it but that is just my opinion and as an individual I have suffered greatly at the hands of misogynists so it really hits a bum-note with me. I do think that as parents we should at least oppose it as we would maybe not buy stuff from shops that get rich of the backs of poor, badly treated workers, not a huge problem for me as I am too poor to buy much stuff which is fine with me. I grew up in the uk in the 70's through the punk era and I only censored, yep censored, one song in case my foster mother heard it, it was bring on the nubiles by the stranglers because of the f-word hehe and it fair used to bug me having to jump up to do that, I think she came in one day and said it's ok I heard it! aargh! Most of the rest I listened to was just noise to her, uk subs, clash, poison girls, damned,x-ray spex,ian dury,cure, crass etc. Also all the rock music and blues I could get my hands on. I still listen to all that stuff today.In the context of most rap music I feel it's not very intelligent and uses women to promote it's unworthy message. I'd imagine no woman on this site agrees with misogyny, maybe for some people it's just becoming an unavoidable part of growing up in a world that cashes in on everthing especially that which will hurt others. Also the mass-marketing is something to think about, maybe stick something else on before the song is indellibly imprinted on our brains forever but honestly I doubt soulja boy will be played in 20 years time like say the stones but I wonder how far lyrics will have gone by then to further debase women, scary. In my day lyrics were all about miners strikes, anti-authorities, that *** Thatcher, anger and disgust about women and children being abused, breaking free from the chains of the last generations and all that oppression, singing about sticking sheets to your ho's back with your sperm seems like a mighty step backwards.|
Originally Posted by forthebest
I honestly think that nobody here has suggested or would lock their kids in their room cos they want to do something we as their parents disagree with, I think we are all a bit more open-minded than that and it is not really possible to do that unless you are a complete bampot who actually thinks that is a good way to parent. As for making my kids believe what I believe well, good grief I may as well have given birth to sheep. But if my kids left home believing it is ok to debase women I'd feel I had significantly failed as a parent.
|
| If my child wanted to eat 20 big macs a day should I just let them in case I am censoring my childs wishes? Should I allow them to smoke , if they have started, voice my disagreement with it, issue some health warnings and just let them get on with it? |
|
Originally Posted by chiromamma
Who thinks up this stuff? So weird to have a term for such a ridiculous act.
|
:
|
Originally Posted by FancyD
If she loves to dance, and likes hip hop, there are a TON of positive, socially-conscious groups that rock mad beats. I personally think that Soulja Boy sucks.
|
|
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan
 For a lot of songs, once I hear the Weird Al version the "regular" version is too boring. For some of them, the regular version also doesn't scan well enough or have enough of a melody. Back on topic, there is a huge difference between not buying something yourself and censorship. Wishing for the magical ability to make artists stop producing misogynist music is not the same as wishing that the misogynist music would be outlawed. Interestingly, the misogynist music problem isn't new or limited to one genre: from the 1930's "hello my baby, hello my honey....if you refuse me, honey you'll lose me" And from the world of top-40's pop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S8wBNoiv90 check out the commentary on Sugar Ray. (The guy reading it is hysterical! This site is similarly funny, but not kid friendly: http://www.raptranslations.com/ ) |
|
Originally Posted by queenjane
Okay. But you *did* say:
you seem to be saying, from that quote, that moms who let their kids listen to "misogynistic" lyrics, even though they've voiced disagreement, are somehow doing the wrong thing. You ask "Should just let them?" as if there is an alternative....so what i am asking you, is....is there an alternative? Some parents would forbid it outright. Many moms here have posted *why* they would not do that, why they would "just let them" (which doesnt really describe what is actually occurring...there is probably lots of discussion and learning going on)....if you are uncomfortable with allowing your child to make the choice to listen to something (or eat something or smoke something) that you find offensive, what is your alternative? This isnt a hypothetical, i really want to know how you handle such situations (when you and your child disagree) if it differs from how UnschoolnMa (for example) handles it. Katherine |
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
As for women's songs that denigrate men, I say, it's the voices of the oppressed expressing themselves. I'd like a songlist of those if someone has one. I'd like to put them in my ipod for research hour. La, la, la, la, la... "and Earl had to die. Na na na na na na, na, na na..." Dixie Chicks.
Night... finally. Long, long weekend... VF |
|
Originally Posted by forthebest
it's not to their taste so I can't say what I would do if one of my dc were say constantly listening to stuff that debases women, I reckon I would not be very happy being subjected to it
|
| just as it is a parents choice to allow or not allow their dc to listen to soulja boy. |
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
I appreciate the type of parenting such as USM, and MarineWife and others espouse using. Educate, discuss, share with your teenagers. (Don't tell, but that is how us others are, too, clearly, but it's more fun to argue with us if you believe that we're carrying picket signs at record companies after we lock our children in the house, windows blacked-out, so, go on, continue; you are anyway, so you might as well have my invitation.)
|
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
And how, may I ask, is our society going to shift away from it? Does it have an appointment to shift?
I would suggest that society has an "impetus" to shift, an impetus fed by ME, saying, "Hey, NO MORE of this. It's not nice, it hurts our society, stop it." And racism, as you said, is NOT over... no, and it likely never will be as much as most people would like it to be (over). BUT, it has weakened enormously, and shows signs of weakening a LOT more, as it should. Racist images and sounds in the media have lessened incredibly... you had to be alive before the Civil Rights Movement to appreciate the enormity of the changes. Do you think that racist images and recordings only started to disappear AFTER the civil rights movement, or after the "shift," however you see that? The businesses that distribute these sounds and images respond to the language of the dollar: if the public ain't buyin'; the studio/record company ain't sellin.' It starts with public outcry: Don't buy these misogynistic products purposely and deliberately. And don't defend them... good grief, they've really got you where they want you then. It makes one a handmaiden for misogynists. Oh, btw, misogyny isn't a little men's club downtown with weekly harmless fun and annual do-gooder missions: Misogyny is woman-hating. Hate. Hate. Not dislike, not criticism, not the good-natured, "Women. Can't live with em, can't live without em," guys from the block attitude about his beloved wife, who he really loves, admires and respects. It's a man who views vagina-bearing human beings as pieces of sh-- to do with, or not, whatever he wants, from using them as a kleenex to masturbate into to a piece of traction on the highway of HIS LIFE. Objects of love... NOOOO, a misogynist does not understand or feel LOVE as we know it. They have want and don't want. He uses words and his body to hurt, deface, bring down, dehumanize women. And when it is done with music, or dance, or pictures, or movies, I AM NOT BUYING. And I am not going to lob that enormous, flame-loaded spear at my daughter's heart by simply discussing with her that... that what... that some men who masquerade as being nice, and cool, and with it, and who may even be hot and attractive and even SWEET in a conversation, are singing out to the world a so-called SONG, or TRACK, to the world where they say these absolutely insulting things about women, generally, and they want to or do really nasty things to them that hurt them and make them cry, or where they actually talk like they want to kill her, and exactly how they want to kill her. And don't listen to it, or be wierded out at all if the little boy or young man you have a serious crush on starts saying those same words out loud while he's grooving along with his IPOD... they don't really MEAN that." "Then why do they say it, Mom? Why don't they say what they MEAN, then, Mom and Dad? Can I have a peanut butter sandwich, Daddy? What are young men thinking about... Dad? Do you think that way? Thanks for taking off the crusts, Daddy. Do you ever say that or do that to Mom? Will someone want to do that to me?   ::PukeThat's where her thinking is going to take her to. I'm against that. I am crying out. Shut that stuff down. Don't buy it, don't defend it, don't explain it: don't put it into their mp3 player. It's not that hard. Other people can still get it, listen to it, let your kid listen to it, throw a party with it and invite your kids, and YOUR decision to PARENT the heck out of the situation as much as you can if that is only to not allow them to play it at home or to load it into the mp3 player that you bought them, will impact your children's growth and maturity in a really good way, as good as the growth and maturity that might--maybe--come if you just give them the reins on it, which imo, for children in elementary school for sure, is not a good thing at all. They're not ready, they cannot comprehend without some psychic damage what it's all about and what it means about a lot of things. I feel my child is really deep, smart, aware, precocious... and all that stuff, but she is a child with a child's development. She is still under my protection for this reason, so says Nature and Society. VF |
:|
Originally Posted by theretohere
: |
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
And look, I already said it! Thanks theretohere.
Yes, that, UnschoolnMa. VF |
| Anyway, regarding the part I bolded... It's not clear at all that you are parenting or approaching the same way me and Marinewife are. If so, I am not sure we'd be debating this issue. |
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
And look, I already said it! Thanks theretohere.
Yes, that, UnschoolnMa. VF |
It's really late though, so it's very possible that I am just missing it.
|
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are "yeah that" about here.
It's really late though, so it's very possible that I am just missing it.I asked: Is your child free to listen to music that you personally do not like/value/approve of or would you not allow them to buy it, have it, or listen to it? |
|
Originally Posted by Viewfinder
Shut that stuff down. Don't buy it, don't defend it, don't explain it: don't put it into their mp3 player...not allow them to play it at home or to load it into the mp3 player that you bought them
|
they all said they don't listen to it. They don't like it. They think it's crap. I asked if they knew what the words meant and, to my surprise, although they all agreed that it was sexual in nature, and not what might be considered normal sex, they didn't know the definition of supermanning that has been presented here. Then I went a little further and asked them if they would knowingly listen to and support songs that glamourize violence against women. They were all disgusted by that and say they would not.
Follow Mothering