"soulja boy" - Page 8

[orangefoot]

Originally Posted by MarineWife

I never forbid it, although many times I asked him not to play it around me because I did not like it. He did not turn into some kind of violent deviant. I think it does a serious disservice to our young people to assume they can't handle such things.

My boys play some games that have music which makes me physically anxious. I just ask them to turn the sound down after a while. I wouldn't ask them not to play the game.

I'm beginning to see this thread as being more about our hope that our children will 'inherit' our values whichever point on the continuum and this applies to so many situations with growing young people like the thread on Lactivism about our children breastfeeding our grandchildren.

Ultimately we are nurturing people who have their own thoughts and feeling and all we can do is offer guidance, support and love. What are you telling your teen if you remove their right to choose what to listen to? It reminds me of those houses with lots of cupboard and drawer locks where I wonder if there is a magic age when they will be deemed unecessary.

[phreedom]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

My Dd loves the song, and maybe more importantly the dance to the song. It's extremely popular right now. Just check Youtube for about 8,000 different versions.

We talk about lyrics a lot in our family and this song is no exception. My Dd is aware that many songs she finds catchy have lyrics that talk about things she personally may not value, but in many cases she can seperate the lyrics from enjoying the sound or beat of a song. She doesn't think of/ refer to women as "ho's" and she wouldn't think too highly of someone who did, but none of that is necessary to enjoy the song. For example, I really like "Soldier" by Destiny's Child. I find the lyrics a bit silly, but the song overall always has caught my attention and made me feel happy or upbeat. That's a good thing right? Hearing lyrics doesn't mean we have to agree with what they are talking about.

Everyone has their own limits of course, and they are likely going to be different for everyone. We don't censor media, but we do talk about it a lot. It's an interesting subject.

Yeah this.

I'm one of those people that like some songs for the beat. It's what I like to listen to in club and what I like to "dance" to (it thats what you want to call it ) ) When I go back and actually listen to the lyrics it's a little embarrassing to admit I enjoyed dancing to it at one time.

My DSD loves that song, knows the lyrics and the dance...but has absolutely no idea what it means. She talks about boys that go around slapping the girls backs hollering that they "Supermanned that ho" (rolls eyes...real mature). I wanted to explain to her why that isn't okay...and what the meaning of it is...but my husband told me no. She's too young to know that. She's 12.

I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by phreedom

I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.

Maybe you could bring it to the attention of the school (what the boys are doing AND the meaning).

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by phreedom

My DSD loves that song, knows the lyrics and the dance...but has absolutely no idea what it means. She talks about boys that go around slapping the girls backs hollering that they "Supermanned that ho" (rolls eyes...real mature). I wanted to explain to her why that isn't okay...and what the meaning of it is...but my husband told me no. She's too young to know that. She's 12.

I dont' agree but whatever...not my place to step over him.

That's too bad. IMO, once someone is exposed to something they should get an explanation regardless of their age, especially if it's something that is potentially abusive. Are the boys doing this to her? You can always adjust the explanation based on age and maturity.

I agree that it might be a good idea to bring the behavior of the boys to the attention of someone at the school. In the schools my ds went to, it wouldn't matter what the meaning behind the behavior was, it wouldn't be tolerated because of the zero tolerance policy about touching. That's one very good way to show everyone that what is espoused in the song is not acceptable.

[OhDang]

the kid who wrote the song is young, in his teens. I really don't think it is that big of a deal if they are listening to the censored version

[pajamajes]

supersoak that ho is actually pretty self explanatory. its not like kids dont already know what its talkin about. and if they don't know then it doesn't hurt them b/c they don't know.

[onelilguysmommy]

okay am i the only oen who doesnt see this as a huge issue?

i see how this superman thing is, since the description alludes to the girl not wanting it..but other than that...im just not going to get riled up about semen being on a body as long as its cool with whoever its being put on, sorry.


the calling women hos thing is a problem, yes but the other stuff being discussed.. :

[StrongBeliever]

AHHHH! I've only read about half of the responses to this, but I couldn't stop myself from commenting RIGHT NOW. I'm horrified! Seeing so many mothers here say things like

"Remember the XYZ dirty sings from our generation and we are okay..."
"Kids are too little to understand XYZ nasty innuendo..."
"They are just listening to the beat, not the words..."
... And other such nonsense.

First, I'd like to say that we DIDN'T turn out okay. If our parents, and we as parents weren't influenced negatively by the exploitation of something meant to be BEAUTIFUL then why are people our age and their children, OUR children, still coming up with such terribly horrible lyrics?... Why are the masses still entertained by this garbage? People are effected by this, whether they know it or not, or are willing to admit it or not. Which brings me to this...

MDC is a place, I'll assume, where many of us understand that the environment we live in effects us on a subconscious level. For instance the child surrounded by darkness, even if he/she "understands" that their is light, will still grow to reflect darkness. The child surrounded by light will always reflect light. Knowing this how can we expose our children to such crap when we KNOW that it is negative? How can we condone that? I'll take a moment and be paranoid for the sake of my children... Think about how music has been used a weapon. I don't know the exact scenario, but somewhere heavy metal was blasted 24/7 and it worked to drive the people they were after half crazy. I'm sure the people who were on the defense "knew it was just music" but eventually the negativity with which it was delivered got to them. And we all know about subliminal messages and how things imprint upon the mind... If our eyes are open, they can't not see something, and if we can hear, we have no filter for what is heard. Post traumatic stress syndrome anyone? Hearins something horrible or seeing something awful, and not being bothered until many years down the road? Knowing these things, how can we stand by and say that our children won't be negatively effected, that they are "just listening to the beat"? *shudder*

Now I'm on a bit of a rant, and some of that might not fit together cohesively, so please don't flame me on a technicality, but think about it. REALLY. If we allow things like this in our children's lives, and stand by letting the media make our decisions for us, let our children's peers make the choices, then it will only get worse. Society is as screwed up as it is today for a reason... Complacency. Makes me want to vomit. Hooray to the mother's here who stood up and said it's not acceptable. For the rest of you... Forget about what is politically correct and think about the innocence of your pure sweet children being smashed over a stupid stupid song with a mildly catchy beat.

[StrongBeliever]

A note about giving our kids the info to make informed descisions. That's great, by all means do that. They'll need that guidance to deal with the fact that our world today is largely full of ickiness. But in no way should society be allowing this to go on. We shouldn't be standing by saying "they'll get exposed sooner or later". We should be working TODAY to make sure that the world our grand babies will live in, and their babies after them and so on, won't be full of such terrible terrible things. I know life has it's bad moments, but we don't need to be generating them... Profiting off of the generation of negativity. It's NOT okay, on any level.

[chellemarie]

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

"Remember the XYZ dirty sings from our generation and we are okay..."
"Kids are too little to understand XYZ nasty innuendo..."
"They are just listening to the beat, not the words..."
... And other such nonsense.

First, I'd like to say that we DIDN'T turn out okay. If our parents, and we as parents weren't influenced negatively by the exploitation of something meant to be BEAUTIFUL then why are people our age and their children, OUR children, still coming up with such terribly horrible lyrics?... Why are the masses still entertained by this garbage? People are effected by this, whether they know it or not, or are willing to admit it or not. Which brings me to this...

Actually, I think I turned out mostly okay and at some point, what my children say and do is their choice. I hope to have some positive influence there, but I am not programming robots. I'm raising individual human beings.

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

MDC is a place, I'll assume, where many of us understand that the environment we live in effects us on a subconscious level. For instance the child surrounded by darkness, even if he/she "understands" that their is light, will still grow to reflect darkness. The child surrounded by light will always reflect light. Knowing this how can we expose our children to such crap when we KNOW that it is negative? How can we condone that?

Emphasis mine. Uh, what? I think there are plenty of people who have lived through a lot of direct, physical, purposeful abuse and neglect who survive and thrive and do amazing, inspiring things.

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

I'll take a moment and be paranoid for the sake of my children... Think about how music has been used a weapon. I don't know the exact scenario, but somewhere heavy metal was blasted 24/7 and it worked to drive the people they were after half crazy. I'm sure the people who were on the defense "knew it was just music" but eventually the negativity with which it was delivered got to them.

Are you talking about psychological warfare? That's a pretty extreme example to put up against Crank That by Soulja Boy. For that to hold any water, you'll have to provide the specific instance.

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

And we all know about subliminal messages and how things imprint upon the mind... If our eyes are open, they can't not see something, and if we can hear, we have no filter for what is heard. Post traumatic stress syndrome anyone? Hearins something horrible or seeing something awful, and not being bothered until many years down the road? Knowing these things, how can we stand by and say that our children won't be negatively effected, that they are "just listening to the beat"? *shudder*

How can you properly prepare your child for living in this society as a well-adjusted, productive adult if you're putting blinders on him? Ignoring something, shoving it under the carpet, pretending it doesn't exist does NOT change the fact that it is there. Addressing it, explaining why you don't like it, why you hope they won't support it with their own time and money - those are the keys to change.

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

If we allow things like this in our children's lives, and stand by letting the media make our decisions for us, let our children's peers make the choices, then it will only get worse. Society is as screwed up as it is today for a reason... Complacency. Makes me want to vomit. Hooray to the mother's here who stood up and said it's not acceptable. For the rest of you... Forget about what is politically correct and think about the innocence of your pure sweet children being smashed over a stupid stupid song with a mildly catchy beat.

1. I don't let the media make my decisions.
2. I don't let my children's peers make my choices.
3. I'm involved, not complacent.
4. I'm hardly politically correct. I have trouble seeing how that fits in here. In fact, the only way I can squash it in is if I see my side of this argument as being very NON-PC.
5. My children are precious to me, but since they're human beings living in a world filled with other human beings, they are not pure and innocent. "Soulja Boy" has nothing to do with that, either.

[StrongBeliever]

You're not entirely off-base ChelleMarie, but I'd like to make a few points. This is all very subjective stuff, and while I did rant a bit and can't expect everyone to agree, I don't think I went overboard.

You're right that children are individuals and will make their own choices, but each and every thing that happens in their lives colors their choices. It is our responsibility as parents, and as humans who decide the direction of where the world is going, to make sure that our kids know that degradation of women and exploitation of sex is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

You are absolutely right that there are plenty of people who have survived terrible incidents to live wonderful lives, doing great things. I never meant to imply otherwise. The point I was trying to make is that we can't just shrug off our children listening to this stuff, because it STICKS, even if only a little. Nothing is truly in one ear and out the other. If we can spare our children more negativity, why wouldn't we?

Is it really that far removed from psychological warfare? When our children are being barraged with sex exploitation every where they turn? Cartoons, music, movies, magazines... It's everywhere all the time. Soulja Boy is just one of the sad sorry pieces in the whole mess. Do I really need to provide some scientific study to prove what is obvious to anybody willing to open their eyes? Something is decidedly wrong with the way things are today when we won't believe what's right before our eyes until someone with "authority" tell us so.

Well adjusted and productive? *gag* What do you mean by that anyway? I don't want my children to be well adjusted to filth and perpetuating the cycle of negativity. I certainly don't advocate putting blinders on children, BUT I do believe that they need some sheltering from all the garbage that's out there. We can inform our children and help them learn what they need to be good, honest people without letting them listen to junk. Will they hear junk anyway? Probably so, but when they do we tell them that's what it is and why... Just like so many mamas have already said. I get it that we can't spare our children every single hurt. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't sugar coat and soften the edges... When they encounter crap, let them know how truly horrifying it is.

Where "political correctness" comes in, at least in my eyes, is that people may be afraid to tell their children, or say in a forum, or speak up wherever, and say that a song like that is disgusting and stupid. Pointless. Afraid that it will be construed one way or the other and that someone will be offended. Afraid to direct their children away from it, that they will be labeled different("On no, that kid isn't well adjusted! *gasp*). That's my own perspective though.

The way I see it, our society is ill... Sick and dying. If we keep pretending that it's just something that we have to deal with, medicate the symptoms, then it will continue to die, slow and painful. I say kill it or cure it. But I suppose that makes me "extreme". Well, I extremely love my children... What else can I say?

[chellemarie]

#1
You are all over the place, Strong Believer.

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

Nothing is truly in one ear and out the other. If we can spare our children more negativity, why wouldn't we?

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't sugar coat and soften the edges... When they encounter crap, let them know how truly horrifying it is.

So are you going to spare them or are you going to draw them a picture? Which is it?

#2

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

Well adjusted and productive? *gag* What do you mean by that anyway?

Raising healthy, happy, capable, confident, reasonable adult humans is my overall, big-picture goal of parenting. I know. "*gag*"

#3

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

Do I really need to provide some scientific study to prove what is obvious to anybody willing to open their eyes? Something is decidedly wrong with the way things are today when we won't believe what's right before our eyes until someone with "authority" tell us so.

Yes, you do if you are going to cite specific examples to form your argument. I'm not believing what's right in front of YOUR eyes. I see things my way. You see things yours. The way you see things scares me.

#4

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

Where "political correctness" comes in, at least in my eyes, is that people may be afraid to tell their children, or say in a forum, or speak up wherever, and say that a song like that is disgusting and stupid. Pointless. Afraid that it will be construed one way or the other and that someone will be offended. Afraid to direct their children away from it, that they will be labeled different("On no, that kid isn't well adjusted! *gasp*). That's my own perspective though.

Emphasis mine. I think that most of us who don't ban this sort of material outright ARE speaking up about it. We are talking to our kids about it. We're not afraid to ask, "What do you think he's really saying there?" and follow up with a discussion of why we think that's good or bad or otherwise. Who could possibly be offended by me having a thoughtful discussion with my kid about words and pictures?

I wouldn't say I direct my children toward negative messages in the media we consume. I don't block it out, though. I leave room for talking, discussing, deciding.

[MarineWife]

The reason I brought up the stuff about the other songs is to try to put some perspective on this. We are talking about just a song. I don't really see that as a big deal. I don't see a song as influential to me or my children as our own minds are. At every generation there is an uproar over music. Parents freak out. The kids listen to it anyway. Then those kids grow up and do the same with their kids. It's a silly cycle. Maybe if we talked about it instead of trying to forbid it, it wouldn't continue. That was my point. I really don't understand why people put so much importance on a song. It makes me think that most people don't think we (humans) are capable of critical thinking and keeping ourselves from turning into sheep that just follow the flock.

I do see the importance of the subject of sexual violence and the degredation of other human beings. That's where my open, honest and respectful communication with my children comes into play when they are exposed to things that I find offensive or just plain wrong.

[StrongBeliever]

I said just what I meant... You can take things out of context all day to make me look like a kook, but it doesn't make what I said crazy. Keep as many nasties from your kids as you can, and when they do run into it, make sure they understand that it's nasty, even if everybody else thinks it's cool.

If well adjusted and productive equates towing the line and hopping off the cliff with the rest of the lemmings, that's the last thing I want my kiddos to be.

It doesn't take a scientist to see that our kids are being barraged with crap from every direction from many different sources. We're both entitled to our opinions though.

[StrongBeliever]

*smile* Gee... My lemmings comment must throw me in with the bunch that fears the sheepify-ing(what a word, eh?) of the people? Sorry for that. I just think it really stinks that there is so much ugliness out there that our kids have to learn to protect themselves against, lest perpetuate it themselves. I wish the best for everyone's children in that.

[queenjane]

Where "political correctness" comes in, at least in my eyes, is that people may be afraid to tell their children, or say in a forum, or speak up wherever, and say that a song like that is disgusting and stupid. Pointless. Afraid that it will be construed one way or the other and that someone will be offended. Afraid to direct their children away from it, that they will be labeled different("On no, that kid isn't well adjusted! *gasp*). That's my own perspective though.

I would not speak to my child in the way you describe, not because i am "afraid"...indeed, the prevailing wisdom in both mainstream parenting circles and here at MDC is to censor, control, berate, diminish, etc etc (just check out the many threads about keeping girls away from the "evils" of Bratz dolls)...i dont speak to my child about his interests as "junk" or being "disgusting, pointless, stupid"...because i love and respect my child too much to dismiss his interests in that way. Whether its a rap song, or a bratz doll, or a cupcake, or a videogame, i think its far more respectful to my child to listen, discuss, etc than to restrict and control. I believe THAT brings far more "light" into my child's life than any sheltering i could do, and i believe that being respected allows that "light" to grow within him, so that he is essentially immune to the "darkness" of which you speak.

I guess i just find the tone of your posts so offensive and insulting....you truly seem to believe that those of us who have chosen a different path in relating to our children have done so out of fear and a desire to conform to society, rather than because we honestly believe that this is the best way to parent our kids.....and if that is true (that you think we're just lemmings)....then you couldnt be further off base.


Katherine

[StrongBeliever]

I apologize if my passion on the subject is offensive. I also apologize if I get on my high horse and use terms that are less than bunny fresh... I suppose there I need to practice what I preach. Ah, the foresight of youth. But I won't apologize for my intention. I'd like for everyone to have a loving, gentle childhood... Maybe if my rantings get one more mom to switch the channel on the radio, that's great. It might be easier to swallow if I could say it a little sweeter, but it was early in the morning and passion doesn't always leave time to edit for sensibilities. And maybe my rantings will achieve nothing, but I stood up for what I believe in, and that counts for something to me. I don't mean to insult anyone, nor do I mean to point the finger... Forgive my generalizations.

[Cherie2]

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

I'd like for everyone to have a loving, gentle childhood... .

I will go out on a limb and say that nobody her feels any differently, but teenagers have so much more exposure to the world and thus the media is a big part of this. Are your teens forbidden from listening to music you disprove of?

eta: if so how would you manage that?

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by StrongBeliever

I apologize if my passion on the subject is offensive. I also apologize if I get on my high horse and use terms that are less than bunny fresh... I suppose there I need to practice what I preach. Ah, the foresight of youth. But I won't apologize for my intention. I'd like for everyone to have a loving, gentle childhood... Maybe if my rantings get one more mom to switch the channel on the radio, that's great.

In my opinion, you've really missed the point that many moms on this thread have been trying to make.

First, i thought we were talking about older kids and teens here....like ages 10 and up. Its not the same as intentionally exposing your three yr old to "offensive" music (though i suppose an argument can be made for that too...but that wasnt this thread)....how does "switching the channel" help your teen develop the skills necessary to discern "good" vs "bad" messages (which is quite objective and ultimately something each one of us, children included, will eventually need to decide for themselves), or encourage communication about messages in media, and how they affect us?

Its just interesting to me how different parents take drastically different positions on this issue. Some feel that commercial tv (for example) is horrible, that their children are victims to its messages, and its poison to their minds. OTOH, my son will watch an infomercial (can't really get more "commercial" than that!), we'll discuss the product, look up reviews on the internet, and decide for ourselves whether we think they were honest in their advertising and whether the product seems worth the money.

I guess i just feel like knowledge is power....would i explain "superman that 'ho!" to a five yr old? No, that probably wouldnt come up. But discuss it with my preteen/teenager if the issue arose? Absolutely.

For *me*, i just dont find parenting from a place of fear to be very productive or good for my child. There seems to me to be alot of fear in your posts. Maybe i'm wrong.


Katherine

[Marg of Arabia]

WOW! what a thread! Geez, I really can't add a lot......

I will say that nobody is going to be able to shield a teen from what is out there. What we can control is how we react to it as role models and how we explain our opinion of it.

My 19 year old was exposed to any and everything and I have always told her any and every opinion I have about abusive music, movies, tv, books, magazines,,,,and so on......

Bottomline, control is an illusion parents have most of the time but modeling is where it's at! (my opinion)


marg