Should I say anything?

[Chavelamomela]

DH and I have recently become friends with a lovely couple who moved
to out community not long ago. We have developed a nice friendship
with them. DH and I get along very well with them as a couple and individually and enjoy spending time with them.

Since they moved in, they had a baby, and she's pretty AP-minded. She
had a somewhat traumatic birth experience, and stuck with the
nursing, and eventually was able to nurse FT after a few weeks of
supplementing.
She's also a Babywearer and is overall a pretty crunchy-type mama.

So I was therefore rather surprised to hear that they're going away
together next month for 4 days without the baby. He has a a business
trip and she's coming with, and they're extending it into a couple-
day vacation.

I am so worried about the nursing relationship! The baby will be
less than 6 months old at the time of the trip, and I'm concerned
that 4 days of pumping will not be good for her supply.

Not to mention, the idea of voluntarily leaving such a young baby is
beyond me, but I'm not even going to go there...

Should I say anything? I do have a "rep" among my friends
a "militant nurser" but this has also helped - many people have come
to me for help w. nursing and I've been able to help w.
nursing/latching/pumping issues several times, saving the nursing
relationship.

I just cannot fathom voluntarily putting myself in this kind of
position that could potentially jeapardize the nursing relationship.
I thought this mama knew better too.

Would you say anything to this mama?

-Chavi

[Thalia the Muse]

I don't see how your intervention here could possibly be well-received or helpful, frankly. If she has come to you and asked for advice about whether she should go, then sure, tell her what you think -- but otherwise, her travel decisions are hers to make.

[Kylix]

I think it depends on how you put it.

If this is her first nursing relationship, she may just not know that four days away could jeopardize her milk supply--especially if she's had difficulties before.

A kind, neutral question of "I remember, df's name, that you told me that you had some difficulties getting nursing established in the beginning, are you concerned about your milk supply dropping when you go away?" And then take it from there....

Kylix

[meganmarie]

So, she's definitely going to go on the trip - and while I agree with you I dont get it - that's not the issue. No point making her feel bad, and resentful of you, which I think you recognize.

But what I hear you asking, is can you help her make sure this trip doesn't have a negative impact on milk supply and can you help get her through it to continue to nurse afterwards.

I think the only way to do this is to ask open-ended questions and be totally non-judgmental. It will probably help if you lie through your teeth and act very excited about her trip: "Wow, what a great opportunity to spend some time with your husband and get a break. Are you excited? What will you do there? I'm jealous! What fun!" (I know this is hard.)

But once you've established you think this is a great idea you have more leeway to start gently butting in with totally innocent questions "Do you think you will still be nursing Baby when the trip comes? Oh, that's terrific! Are you pumping extra milk to stock up so she still gets your milk while you are gone? Great! Wow, that's such an amazing thing to do."

And then you can sneak into advice mode: "You know, I know someone (insert invented story here) who went on a business trip and pumped. She had some supply issues but kept it up enough that she could still keep nursing, so I know you'll be fine. But I know my friend had to do some extra things to keep her supply up - take fenugreek, do extra pumping sessions, spend more time nursing when she got back..." (reaction) "Oh, well I have a couple articles I could send you if its helpful."

I've had the same experience by the way - a friend who had a natural childbirth, breastfed, pumped at work past 6 months, and then just randomly weaned at 9 months - I was like, WTF? Of course I stayed quiet. Its so rare to find anyone you have anything in common with on parenting that I just count my blessings. Offer advice when its wanted - and stay quiet about decisions that have already been made and aren't being second-guessed.

[emilysmama]

Please do not say anything. You may not be able to imagine why she can leave on the trip and still be AP, but I can. So please do not say anything at all, even if you cannot imagine.

As someone who had trouble establishing a nursing relationship, I'm guessing that she really needs a break. True, any new mother needs a break, but if she really needs it, then she really needs it.

If she had trouble establishing a nursing relationship, then depending on the circumstances, she might be the best person that can go on this trip without threatening her milk supply. You don't say whether she had to pump at all or a lot before she was able to nurse full time, but if she did, then she will certainly be more likely to have had pumping experience to maintain a full supply than a mother who had no trouble breastfeeding from the start and had never pumped. I know that I exclusively pumped for the first 3 months of my dd's life, and pumping every two hours around the clock without fail was just a fact of life for me, and even though my initial problem was undersupply, keeping up the supply by pumping for four days would have been no problem for me.

Finally, at 6 months of age, even at 4 months of age, the breastfeeding is well established. (It took my daughter 3 months before she learned to latch on for the first time, and by the time she was 4 months old, she was nursing like she'd done it all of her life, even though she had only done it one month.) I believe it's highly unlikely that going away for only 4 days will jeopardize the nursing relationship.

If she were going to leave a 1 month old, then yes, I would worry, but the baby will be 6 months old.

[JenBuckyfan]

I wouldn't say anything hard as it may be. The nursing relationship with the baby is soooo important, but so is the DH/DW relationship. Maybe having a few days away will allow her to come back more relaxed and connected to her DH, thus allowing her to feel more connected to the baby? Not that she necessarily needs to feel more connected, but if it's been a tough road she may just need some time to herself. We don't know what her home life has been so it's hard to say whether or not that's true. My guess is that she may feel a bit guilty leaving the baby as it is and doesn't need someone else compounding her feelings.

What I would do though, is be there when she gets back without judgement. If she has any difficulties nursing at that time, you can be the first to jump in and help. I think you sound genuinely concerned and that you want to help for all of the right reasons, but bringing it up may put a wedge between you that you don't want. Not that you can't ever question why a friend is doing something, you know your friend better than us, but if you question whether or not you should say something maybe you shouldn't. If you feel you must say something, I agree with bringing it up as something you've heard before and then let her know that if she experiences any issues when she returns, that you know some ways to help.

Kudos to you for caring so much about your friend and her baby!

[RolliePollie]

Maybe you could offer to help her keep her milk suppy up instead? And to help her pump adequately for the trip so that her baby will have enough mama milk while she's gone. I think that would be best. Without judgment of course, some mamas are different than others. If working/traveling mamas can make it work I'm sure she can too.

[CuckooMamma]

hmmm, I'm bypassing the leaving such a tiny baby for four days and going straight to the milk supply. I think the supply will be okay. Will it diminish? Heck, yeah. But she can kick it up again when she returns with tons of nursing. However, that's where my concern is. This all could precipitate a strike. So, I think that I wouldn't say much about the supply unless I thought she wasn't going to be pumping.

I'd also be hoping to see any kind of ambivalence in leaving the baby so that I could suggest bringing someone else along with the baby. Provided I thought she understood that she'd still have to pump a lot to keep up her supply and she seemed gung-ho on the trip, I'd save my few words for preparing her for a strike so that she wouldn't assume the baby "weaned" if she came home and the baby didn't want to nurse.

[campbetc]

,

[TekknixMom]

I'm somewhat on the 'keep it to yourself' train, no matter how hard it may be. How close are you with her? If it were someone I was pretty close with, I would have no problem buying her a bottle of fenugreek and giving it to her a few days before the trip and just adding, "I know you're going to be pumping while you're gone, fenugreek helps with milk supply so if you take some now and all the way through your trip it may help your supply not go down so much". but again, that would be something I said to a really close friend that I knew would appreciate it. If you're not that close or you don't know how she would react, I would even bypass that much.

[kikidee]

I agree, keep it to yourself. If you have a rep as a nursing expert among your friends, then she will know that she can come to you if she has questions about how to approach keeping her supply up while gone.

[MommytoTwo]

Nope not your biz. Sorry.

[zensven42]

I don't see why it would be a problem to mention something if she is a friend. Just be honest and say what you have to say. Say that you are a little concerned because you are afraid that the trip might jeopardize the nursing relationship and stress them out and that you, as a friend, would of course hate for that to happen. Just say that you just wanted to let her know, in case she doesn't realize that there could be problems continuing to nurse after the trip and want her to be aware that there could be. I don't see why this would hurt her feelings.

Kristin Skrydlak-simlai

[G8P4]

I honestly think we live in such an baby unfriendly world, that it might not occur to this couple that they could - and in my opinion, should - take their baby with them. There is so much pressure to detach..."the couple need some time to themselves"....sure they do, but 4 days away from their baby? I don't see a problem with mentioning something.

[Chavelamomela]

update

So the couple came for a get together this weekend (as we had planned) and I did end up saying something is a very gentle (at least I think so) & apologetic manner.

Basically, when we were alone in the kitchen together at some point, I basically said "I know this is none of my business and please forgive me for butting in when it's not my place, but I can't help but express my concern for what may happen to your milk supply when you leave the baby for 4 days. I know that pumping for 4 days may hurt the supply and I'm just so worried that the baby may reject your breast or your supply will never recover sufficiently. Again, I'm sorry for butting into your business, and I hope you'll forgive me, I just am so worried for you and the baby."

So she basically responded that she planned to pump, and that if he rejects the breast, she'll pump for a while and then if 5 months of nursing is all he'll have, then so be it.

I know many of you disagree with me about saying something, but I did feel like I needed to express my worry, and since we're pretty close, I think she allowed me that "butting in" to their business.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by Chavelamomela

So the couple came for a get together this weekend (as we had planned) and I did end up saying something is a very gentle (at least I think so) & apologetic manner.

Basically, when we were alone in the kitchen together at some point, I basically said "I know this is none of my business and please forgive me for butting in when it's not my place, but I can't help but express my concern for what may happen to your milk supply when you leave the baby for 4 days. I know that pumping for 4 days may hurt the supply and I'm just so worried that the baby may reject your breast or your supply will never recover sufficiently. Again, I'm sorry for butting into your business, and I hope you'll forgive me, I just am so worried for you and the baby."

So she basically responded that she planned to pump, and that if he rejects the breast, she'll pump for a while and then if 5 months of nursing is all he'll have, then so be it.

I know many of you disagree with me about saying something, but I did feel like I needed to express my worry, and since we're pretty close, I think she allowed me that "butting in" to their business.

First of all, I want to say that I am not asking this snarkily at all, and I am genuinely curious. Why did you post this thread, asking if you should say something when you were going to ignore the advice anyway?

[WhoNeedsSleep?]

Originally Posted by Chavelamomela

So the couple came for a get together this weekend (as we had planned) and I did end up saying something is a very gentle (at least I think so) & apologetic manner.

Basically, when we were alone in the kitchen together at some point, I basically said "I know this is none of my business and please forgive me for butting in when it's not my place, but I can't help but express my concern for what may happen to your milk supply when you leave the baby for 4 days. I know that pumping for 4 days may hurt the supply and I'm just so worried that the baby may reject your breast or your supply will never recover sufficiently. Again, I'm sorry for butting into your business, and I hope you'll forgive me, I just am so worried for you and the baby."

So she basically responded that she planned to pump, and that if he rejects the breast, she'll pump for a while and then if 5 months of nursing is all he'll have, then so be it.

I know many of you disagree with me about saying something, but I did feel like I needed to express my worry, and since we're pretty close, I think she allowed me that "butting in" to their business.

Knowing how fragile my marriage feels but also knowing how my nursing is going right now, I would have been fine with you coming to me this way. My husband and I NEED to get away. We always go away in May for our anniversary. This year we may go to a hotel a few minutes from here. I'll come nurse a coule times a day and pump the rest.
These things are not black and white. I love my son and want what's best for him. I think at it's core, nursing is best but not at the expense of my marriage.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Why did you post this thread, asking if you should say something when you were going to ignore the advice anyway?

Sometimes people like to ask questions to help organize their own thoughts- get some advice and see how it "feels"- if it seems wrong, then go with your gut.

Plus, in case you hadn't noticed, the responses on here weren't unanimous. She may have asked for advice in more than one place, and gotten different responses elsewhere- perhaps the advice she trusted most was the opposite of the consensus on this thread.

I, personally, am glad she spoke up. Maybe the new mama didn't know about all her options or was under a lot of pressure from other adults to "get a break from the baby". If people who care don't speak up, then what kind of community is there?

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Sometimes people like to ask questions to help organize their own thoughts- get some advice and see how it "feels"- if it seems wrong, then go with your gut.

Plus, in case you hadn't noticed, the responses on here weren't unanimous. She may have asked for advice in more than one place, and gotten different responses elsewhere- perhaps the advice she trusted most was the opposite of the consensus on this thread.

I, personally, am glad she spoke up. Maybe the new mama didn't know about all her options or was under a lot of pressure from other adults to "get a break from the baby". If people who care don't speak up, then what kind of community is there?

I totally agree. But I have also found that some already have their mind made up even before asking, thus negating any opposing responses.

I'm not sure about the second bolded, though. This mom is going to pump while away from her baby. And she is going to continue to pump if the baby decides to stop nursing upon her return. Pumping is a lot of work, and I cannot imagine that anyone would choose it over nursing, regardless of family pressure.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I, personally, am glad she spoke up. Maybe the new mama didn't know about all her options or was under a lot of pressure from other adults to "get a break from the baby". If people who care don't speak up, then what kind of community is there?

I usually live by the rule that I would rather say something & have someone mad I said something than not say it & have them tell me later they wish I had. SO, I too, am glad she said something.

I am always amazed by mothers who work so hard in the beginning to get breastfeeding going well, then do things like go away at 4 months & are okay if breastfeeding ends because of it. Of course, I'm glad for the baby that s/he gets it at all, but I just don't understand this.

Add it to the list of things I don't understand.

Sus