Dh wants to know

[transformed]

Dh was just wondering why you don't sue the places, instead of having a nurse in?

[woodchick]

I've never had an issue with nursing dd anywhere. But I probably wouldn't consider legal action if I had a run in with a business (within reason).

I would much rather use the opportunity to bring attention to the issues and to educate the offenders and others than to try to punish. If a company were sued they would probably do whatever it took to get past the lawsuit and move on. A nurse in may help to educate the employees so that they know to act differently the next time.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by woodchick

I've never had an issue with nursing dd anywhere. But I probably wouldn't consider legal action if I had a run in with a business (within reason).

I would much rather use the opportunity to bring attention to the issues and to educate the offenders and others than to try to punish. If a company were sued they would probably do whatever it took to get past the lawsuit and move on. A nurse in may help to educate the employees so that they know to act differently the next time.

Lawsuits bring media attention.

I understand the GD issue.

[woodchick]

I guess it depends on the infraction- if I were simply asked to cover up or go into the bathroom I think that a lawsuit would be overkill. And I think that anyone reached by the media coverage would think so too. And that would give nursing moms a bad name. Maybe making it look that they were just looking for money or to bash the company.

If I was taken off a flight or something on that level, then maybe a lawsuit would be warranted.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by woodchick

I guess it depends on the infraction- if I were simply asked to cover up or go into the bathroom I think that a lawsuit would be overkill. And I think that anyone reached by the media coverage would think so too. And that would give nursing moms a bad name. Maybe making it look that they were just looking for money or to bash the company.

If I was taken off a flight or something on that level, then maybe a lawsuit would be warranted.

: Look at all the people who still joke about the McDonald's coffee lady. (And don't seem to get what was wrong even when I point out that if she had drunk the coffee she would have had 2nd degree burns in her throat.)

[elspethshimon]

Lawsuits are long and expensive and can sometimes dilute the problem. I find it much more satisfying to attempt to change hearts/minds through non-litigious means if/when possible.

[merpk]

Originally Posted by transformed

Dh was just wondering why you don't sue the places, instead of having a nurse in?

Because hanging out with a bunch of mamas & babies/little kids is fun.
And hanging out with a bunch of lawyers and judges is not fun. :








And there ya' go.

[ollineeba]

Originally Posted by merpk

Because hanging out with a bunch of mamas & babies/little kids is fun.
And hanging out with a bunch of lawyers and judges is not fun. :

[jocelyndale]

Because sometimes with a lawsuit/legal settlement you have to shut up.

[racheloperasinger]

Simple: money. Suing anyone is extremely expensive. Just retaining an attourney costs thousands of dollars.

[SashaBear]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

: Look at all the people who still joke about the McDonald's coffee lady. (And don't seem to get what was wrong even when I point out that if she had drunk the coffee she would have had 2nd degree burns in her throat.)

I heard a joke about this just today! We want to blame someone else!

[Evie]

This probably seems counter-intuitive, but not every law enables a private person to sue over a violation of it, even if that person is the victim. Some laws are intended to be enforced only through other means, such as a civil fine. When a private person can sue, it's called having a "private right of action." In order to have a private right of action you typically have to show that's what the legislature intended when it passed the law.

My guess is that breastfeeding laws generally do not allow for a private right of action, which explains the lack of lawsuits.

[Twinklefae]

My DF wants to know why if it is against the law to ask a mother to leave or cover up people don't call the police? (and I don't know what to tell him)

[cschick]

Originally Posted by Twinklefae

My DF wants to know why if it is against the law to ask a mother to leave or cover up people don't call the police? (and I don't know what to tell him)

First, because most cops know very little about the law. Chances are good that the cop won't know the law about breastfeeding.

Second, because if it's a non-violent situation, a lot of places won't dispatch anyhow. They'll tell you to file a report afterwards.

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by Evie

...
My guess is that breastfeeding laws generally do not allow for a private right of action, which explains the lack of lawsuits.

Evie,
I think the real problem is the lack of any meaningful remedy. One of the first questions in any civil case is: "how great was the harm?" (translation "what's the case worth?". On the rare occasion you read about a settlement in these types of matters the dollars involved are relatively small, probably in the low thousands.

So, as a practical matter the cause is perhaps best served by treating offenses like these as "teachable moments". Therefore the Lactivist philosophy leans towards educating or perhaps even winning some people over rather than unnecessarily antagonizing anyone and hardening hearts. If the potential were there for jury verdicts in the tens of thousands of dollars or more the approach might be different: "Hit them in the pocketbooks."

So the goal is to take what in the minds of the average person is a "nothing case" and leverage it into a positive media event. Anyone who is interested in seeing a successful example should try searching this thread for "iparty weymouth, ma".

If memory serves correctly the mother was asked to move. Someone took up her cause but seasoned lactivists on this board encouraged them to let the mom maintain control. What threatened to become a nurse-in became a "nurse-out" that was hosted by the party goods store. As it turns out this business generously donates to various causes, one or more which includes BF'ing. I was actually there and saw the coffee and donuts table with lots of seats for nursing moms, free balloons, etc. There was even a fair amount of local news coverage. Both the mom and the business owners were interviewed.

It turned out to be a huge "win win". The business didn't have to look bad for Lactivism to get a big boost and the mom didn't wind up looking like a complainer making a mountain out of a molehill ... because the business actually validated her position, on camera no less. I have to hope that other businesses saw this and realized that they would rather not ever have to be in the position of managing an event like this.

As for myself, I have actually bought some party goods there since then. Which is probably something I would not have done otherwise.
~Cath

[racheloperasinger]

Originally Posted by Twinklefae

My DF wants to know why if it is against the law to ask a mother to leave or cover up people don't call the police? (and I don't know what to tell him)

According that semi-recent article in Mothering Mag, there are some states where it is legal for moms to BF anywhere, but there are no provisions for enforcing it; CA is in this category. There are other states where it is legal and there are enforcement provisions, like AZ. (I know these 2 states' situations because we just moved from AZ to CA :.)

It's funny, I don't see a peaceful protest as such a nuclear solution as some of the previous posters. But then, I grew up about 5 miles from Berkeley, in CA.

[homewithtwinsmama]

The simplest reason is that for all the "nurse in public" protective laws, almost none provide a legal remedy if discrimination happens anyway. Unless you live in a state that has a human/civil rights commission who investigates and punishes (as in the case in Vermont with the Delta/Freedom Airlines). There just isn't any point to suing. You win nothing.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

: Look at all the people who still joke about the McDonald's coffee lady. (And don't seem to get what was wrong even when I point out that if she had drunk the coffee she would have had 2nd degree burns in her throat.)

So would anyone drinking fresh coffee from Starbucks, or your home coffeemaker, or anywhere else. That's how coffee is made/served.

Pizza will take off the roof of your mouth if you eat it right away too. Lots of (most?) food products are served too hot to consume right away.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by Twinklefae

My DF wants to know why if it is against the law to ask a mother to leave or cover up people don't call the police? (and I don't know what to tell him)

The answer is that violating a state public breastfeeding law is not a crime so there would be nothing for the police to do.

http://www.mothering.com/resources/map.pdf is a color coded map with the basics of what each state pubic breastfeeding law does. The article on enforcement is at http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...ation-law.html Full disclosure: I wrote it.

As a pp pointed out, a few state public breastfeeding laws provide for a private right of action but most don't. So some questions are, "sue how? under what law? for what?" The McDonald's hot coffee lady had medical bills. How do you explain to a jury what harassment for breastfeeding has cost you ... particularly when you usually can't even bring babies into courtrooms?

I understand the argument that more can be accomplished through education. I don't agree. I don't think it is about accomplishing more or less - legal methods are accomplishing a different thing and different approaches to the same goal can be used at the same time. The sad fact is that the legal system is not constructed to protect children's rights or most women's rights. It protects property and privilege - something women and children historically do not have. So even within legal attempts at protecting breastfeeding different paths have to be taken at once - passing protective legislation that truly protects someone other than a property owner and filing lawsuits that use novel legal theory to create case law that recognizes that laws created to protect men do not fit a situation like breastfeeding which is unlike anything men ever do.

It's late. Sorry for the rant.

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by blessed

So would anyone drinking fresh coffee from Starbucks, or your home coffeemaker, or anywhere else. That's how coffee is made/served.

Pizza will take off the roof of your mouth if you eat it right away too. Lots of (most?) food products are served too hot to consume right away.

The McDonald's coffee was served hotter than most other restaurant's temps. And there had been something like 700 other cases that they had settled out of court. She sued because they tried to push her off with less than $1000 to cover her thousands in medical bills.

But...anyway....running around suing people willy-nilly just makes the defendant look like the victim, and the plaintiff winds up looking money-hungry