ppd or sleep deprivation? *long

[stickywicket67]

my son is 4 months old. he is wonderful- an absolute gift. he's way more "needy" than i ever expected but that's just me having unrealistic expectations. he's getting easier as he's getting older and i've come to accept that that is how babies are. i try to be patient and mellow with him always. i realize he is just a baby w/ baby needs.
but, i have never been so tired or angry in my life. in the past two months i have seriously lost it about twice a week. meaning yelling, growling ( yes, growling) and wanting to smash things to bits. i would never hurt my ds but he can hear me/ see me freaking out. it happens when he won't stop crying and/or let me put him down and i'm alone with him and need to get ready for work or tidy up. i just get so angry and i take it out on whatever inanimate object is in my way at the time. my husband is often on the receiving end of one of my flip outs. every little thing he does or doesn't do will set me off. he so does NOT deserve this but i just start going and i can't stop. i yell at him about once every other day. in the middle of a "tantrum" i feel like i'm floating and watching myself be "crazy". i hear the ridiculous things coming out of my mouth yet they keep coming. i get to the point where i just clench my fists and shake uncontrollably- i feel like i'm going to explode. he walks away or battles back but most of the time i can tell he is just so hurt and lost as to what to do. i feel bad. he is a great husband and father to our son. there are things he does that drives me nuts but there is no excuse for me being this mean. i hate myself for being like this. i feel like freak.
i've checked out parenting with rage on the personal growth forum and read some of the books mentioned. it feels like me... but not. this isn't who "i am". it's who i've become.
i go to bed around 9:30 pm every night. we co sleep and i nurse off and on throughout the night. i get up for the day around 8 am. i work about 30 hours a week outside of the home so i can't nap during the weekdays.
i do sleep at night but don't feel like i ever sleep deeply. however, i've had insomnia (wide awake for hours in the middle of the night) for most of my life and yet still functioned w/out being a complete jerk. i had horrible insomnia the whole time i was pg and it didn't manifest like this.
i feel like i have no coping skills whatsoever. i take magnesium daily and it hasn't helped with this. i try to remember to take my vitamins everyday.
i'm just not functioning well. i'm exhausted and forgetful and i'm raging out daily over the dumbest stuff. i have no libido and i feel like i have the worst PMS. but, i don't feel depressed just mad as hell.
ack. thoughts? could it be it ppd or is it severe sleep deprivation?

[kalisis]

You know, my MW once said that in her experience, one of the best cures for PPD was to take the mom and admit her to a hospital for a weekend and let her sleep. She said often that was enough to get her back on an even keel.

And I know for me that the severe sleep deprivation I had when DD came along (nursing a newborn all night, up at 4:30 every morning with no break with DS and no naps) was a huge contributing factor. I prolly would have not had to do meds if I had had some darn help.

But, I also don't think that the anger would have just gone away. That part of your post stuck out to me. I was a.n.g.r.y. ALL THE TIME. That didn't go away, even with talk therapy, until I started meds. And I still get caught off guard by it sometimes (usually right around my period or if something really stressful happens. But, it got so much better with the meds.

If it were me and I were in your shoes, I'd see a counselor. See what they have to say. If they recommend meds, then see what you think.

Did you take the PPD quiz stickied at the top? That could help you pinpoint this a little better.

Good luck mama. It's tough shoes to be in and I'm really glad you're reaching out for help.

s

[camahdavi]

Anger was one of my major issues with PPD. When the depression lifted, I thought I would get better but instead it was replaced with anger. Same advice as anniej, try talking to a counselor.

I found that when I would get into a rage, I HAD to let it out and would say the most ridiculous things to my partner because I felt I had no one else to tell.

It sounds like you are busy with work and the new baby but if can try to squeeze in some exercise. Yoga has really helped me with my anger and PPD and now my partner and I have a deal where I get at least 45 min to myself in the evening to do yoga or go for a walk by myself. At first it seemed like alot to ask and I felt really selfish, but I realize that I really needed it. Also, if you're sleep deprived but can't actually take a nap, just resting your body for a bit may help.

[MKury]

I think that sleep deprivation is such a huge part of the issue... dd is 7 months and has yet to sleep through the night. DH works long hours so I can stay at home and I always get up with dd when she wakes- and it is usually between 5 and 10 times per night. I find myself getting angry and frustrated- never at her, but with the understanding that I need a full night's sleep. Even when dh helps, he still has to come and wake me up for her to nurse, SOOOO today I went to the book store and found what I hope to be the help that I have needed. So far it is in line with what I do- co-sleep and breastfeed and it is written by a mom who has btdt:

The No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley

Again, I haven't gotten through it b/c I only got it today, but it seems promising. I'm hoping that my possible symptoms of ppd are going to be resolved by finally getting some much needed sleep.

Best wishes to you and your lo!

[shell024]

"i have never been so tired or angry in my life. in the past two months i have seriously lost it about twice a week. meaning yelling, growling ( yes, growling) and wanting to smash things to bits. i would never hurt my ds but he can hear me/ see me freaking out. it happens when he won't stop crying and/or let me put him down and i'm alone with him and need to get ready for work or tidy up. i just get so angry and i take it out on whatever inanimate object is in my way at the time. my husband is often on the receiving end of one of my flip outs. every little thing he does or doesn't do will set me off. he so does NOT deserve this but i just start going and i can't stop. i yell at him about once every other day. in the middle of a "tantrum" i feel like i'm floating and watching myself be "crazy". i hear the ridiculous things coming out of my mouth yet they keep coming. i get to the point where i just clench my fists and shake uncontrollably- i feel like i'm going to explode. he walks away or battles back but most of the time i can tell he is just so hurt and lost as to what to do. i feel bad. he is a great husband and father to our son. there are things he does that drives me nuts but there is no excuse for me being this mean. i hate myself for being like this. i feel like freak.
i've checked out parenting with rage on the personal growth forum and read some of the books mentioned. it feels like me... but not. this isn't who "i am". it's who i've become. "


This part of your post stood out to me. I could have written it word-for-word, except I also have an intense, spirited 2.5yo to contend with, so he gets the brunt of my rage along with my partner. Its horrible.

PPD can actually present itself in the form of anger and rage more than depression in some women, like myself, maybe (it sounds like) like yourself. PPD and sleep deprivation are often intertwined, they feed each other. The less sleep you have, the more intense the PPD, vice versa.

I agree with seeing an open-minded, caring therapist. I also second another poster's suggestion of at least 45 min in the evening for yoga, rest, walking, by yourself. And the "at least 45 min" part is pretty important IMO because it seems to take most women with PPD that long to regroup themselves and come back to a healthier perspective, especially if you're exercising and getting the endorphines on your side.

The book Postpartum Depression for Dummies has been a thorough, comprehensive guide for me. I love it. And its written by a psychologist who's been there herself, and who's dedicated herself to the field for over 20 years. I have found some great wisdom in her book. You are NOT alone. There are approximately 1 in 5 women in our shoes. If we get the help we need, we can successfully recover and save ourselves and our families a lot of grief and unecessary struggle (sometimes years of it).

[Toady]

You sound like I did several months ago. Seriously, I tried every natural thing out there. Exercise helped a bit but only while doing it and for the following hour or so. Prozac has truly saved my sanity. I didn't realize just how bad off I was til I started to get better. I wish you the best.

[bosch]

Aw, you sound like me, oh... two nights ago, only my daughter is nearly two. The anger? The throwing/tantrums? Feeling like "this isn't me"? Yeah, I'm there.

I've got to echo what the other mamas have said... taking some time for yourself is beyond important... consider it a necessity like food and water at this point. You can't think of it as being selfish any more than you'd consider eating a full meal or drinking a glass of water selfish. It's what you need RIGHT NOW to help you survive. I'm sure your DH would love to give you 45 minutes of peace if it meant your whole family would benefit for the rest of the day and night from it.

Talk therapy is also so important. I was in therapy for a year and a half before having my daughter, and wish I could get back to it. We've moved, though, and now I don't have anyone who can watch my daughter on a regular basis during the day, which makes keeping therapy appointments nearly impossible. I'm totally bummed out about that. I'm hoping that one of the therapists I contacted will have some openings in their evening schedule some time in the near future, and then I can start going.

Also, my naturopath had me taking 5 HTP, which is a precursor to seratonin. It took about two weeks before I really noticed a change, but I did find that I was able to keep things on an even keel-- the lows weren't nearly as low, and I didn't feel that horrible "this is not me" feeling nearly as much.

Good luck, mama. Take care of yourself so you can be the best parent you can be.

[Shane]

I was wrestling with being the "perfect Mother" or the "virtuous woman" is how I looked at it. I thought, "if I can't do it all, then God will be disappointed by me, and I might not go to heaven." So I wouldn't let my husband help because I thought I should push on through until I get it right. In my mind it wasn't fair to let him take over at night when there are plenty of single mothers out there who seem to "do it all" every day.

If your hubby will take over the baby responsibilities at a certain time so that you can sleep enough, then go take advantage of that. If you have a husband who will let you, and the money to get out of the house for an hour a few times a week, then do it.

I put a lot of holes in our walls. I never physically hurt anybody, but emotionally we are all still trying to heal. No woman does it all. Not one.

[Mama J Rock]

For me I had all the exact same symptoms you described after my son's birth, insomnia, uncharacteristic anger and just that feeling of "not me". I struggled with it for nearly 18 months trying everything I could think of to improve my sleep, eat better, get more exercise, anything natural. My midwife started me on a progesterone cream and it improved things a bit. Well after a couple of months of minor improvement with the cream, I got pregnant and with that pregnancy came the increased levels of progesterone and for the first time since his birth, I felt like myself again. It was unbelievable. So I had my answer, it was the low levels of progesterone I was experiencing (exacerbated by a lack of menstrual cycles since I was still nursing).

Have you had your progesterone levels checked? Most of the symptoms you've described are commonly due to an estrogen dominance in your hormone balance. And it makes sense because if you're breastfeeding and not cycling then you aren't getting that progesterone surge that happens in the second half of a normal cycle.

[stickywicket67]

interesting re; progesterone because i remember thinking this when i had raging PMS pre baby. maybe i read about it in Womens Bodies Women's Wisdom.
so progesterone cream- can it be used while bfing? is it something i can get at the HFS? or does it need a scrip? and 5-htp i'm not sure it's compatible with breastfeeding. i think it may be contraindicated? anyone try inositol w/out the 5-HTP supplement? i've been reading the inositol thread on here but boy it's loooong!
thanks everyone for the responses- i REALLY appreciate it. it helps to know i'm not the only one out there!

[Mama J Rock]

Here's a link to the stuff I use. My midwife recommended it for me but it doesn't require a prescription. It's fine to use while breastfeeding.

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/356163300908.html

For me personally, I'm only comfortable using something like this if a health care provider is on board with it as well so I'd at least run it by whoever you see just to make sure it's okay with anything else you're taking and also depending on your medical history if there's any reason it should be avoided.

[katrinak]

I feel like this describes me to a T. I need help with this, but I am glad I am not the only one. Well, I don't want others to suffer too, but you know what I mean.

[SuzymomofLaura]

Hi Stickywicket, you know I was asking myself the same thing. With my first child (born by CS) I had PPD, and because my second birth went so well I was SO sure it wouldn’t happen this time around... Yes, having no sleep to speak of for months is torture, it does make you highly irritable but the red hot anger that pops up on it's own accord is definitely not caused by loss of sleep alone. Actually your post prompted me to set an appointment with my acupuncturist, to seek help in finding back my balance. PPD is not only in the mind, a disbalance in your hormonal system can contribute too. Acupuncture can work very well there, and doesn't interfere with BFing
I wish you well, thanks for posting, it will go away eventually

[Surfacing]

I can totally relate to what you are saying OP, I have btdt. I too tried all kinds of natural things (incl. 5HTP, omega oils, B vitamins, exercise, etc.) but the only thing that really helped me with the rage and uncontrollable anger was Prozac. It was a godsend. Like a pp said, I too get breakthroughs of anger when the stress gets really high again, but it's been incredibly helpful.

Good luck with your journey on this, it's difficult for you and your whole family, isn't it? I hope you find the things you are trying helpful. It's good that you are seeking solutions.

[CharlieToaster]

It does have a lot to do with sleep deprivation. After ds 1 was born I remember not being able to stop eating I was so tired. My chiropractor was also a nutritionist. I talked to him about it thinking I was diabetic. He explained because I wasn't getting enough sleep it was my seratonin levels. Lexapro works with the seratonin in your system. I had ds 2 4 1/2 months ago and he is an easy baby. Even getting up with him at night is easy. He even likes to sleep alone. But, we are still co-sleeping most of the time with ds 1 and I'm still exhausted from giving birth to him 3 1/2 years ago. I was totally golden when ds2 was born. I felt better than I had in years! Then, my hormones kicked in when my regular cycle started again 3 weeks after he was born and I went back to feeling pregnant. I was unable to breastfeed with either child and actually started to just spontaneously lactate again 3 weeks ago so my hormones are again all over the place! I just started crying all the time and then just snapping at people. I figured it was hormones. (I'm still not convinced that it isn't, I mean, ????) I spoke with my OB on the phone and he wanted me to try the Lexapro and I was hesitant about taking anything with side effects. I mean, isn't there another way to blanace the hormones and and solve the issue? Well, The first day I was on it (yesterday) I was immediately better. I didn't get weepy until 22 hours later and now this is day 2 and it's still good. I feel much more like myself, that's for sure.

So, ppd or sleep deprivation? I think it's sleep deprivation that makes me simply unable to focus on anything. I couldn't even make a decision on the phone when I was talking with the doctor. I haven't read a book in a year, I can't even meditate. The symptoms are probably the same. I'm better on days I'm more well rested or not so bored staying at home with 2 kids but looking at the big picture, the meds just make sense. The ob said some people just take it for a little while, others take it every other day, some just take is on the days they feel they need it. We'll see.

[vanessab23]

Let me see if I can respond to everything I had a !!! to :)

Originally Posted by anniej

You know, my MW once said that in her experience, one of the best cures for PPD was to take the mom and admit her to a hospital for a weekend and let her sleep. She said often that was enough to get her back on an even keel.

s

I don't mean to be negative, but it sounds like your MW doesn't have a lot of TRUE experience with PPD, or personal experience. Getting a break can be helpful-- every mama should have that opportunity if they feel they need it and want it. But honestly, for anyone dealing with true PPD, hormone or chemical imbalance-- that would just be a band-aid. Cure? Not for PPD, but sure that would work for an overwhelmed, sleep-deprived mama.

I am also a midwife and thought I new it all-- then I had a baby and the PPD hell began. It made me really re-think all the advice I had ever given on the topic.

Originally Posted by bosch

I've got to echo what the other mamas have said... taking some time for yourself is beyond important... consider it a necessity like food and water at this point. You can't think of it as being selfish any more than you'd consider eating a full meal or drinking a glass of water selfish. It's what you need RIGHT NOW to help you survive. I'm sure your DH would love to give you 45 minutes of peace if it meant your whole family would benefit for the rest of the day and night from it.

Talk therapy is also so important.

Also, my naturopath had me taking 5 HTP, which is a precursor to seratonin. It took about two weeks before I really noticed a change, but I did find that I was able to keep things on an even keel-- the lows weren't nearly as low, and I didn't feel that horrible "this is not me" feeling nearly as much.

YES! It is a necessity! In order for your baby to survive and THRIVE, you must be surviving......

Talk Therapy is very important!

I tried every natural option out there as well-- 5HTP worked great for me for about a month and then CRASH. I was back to where I was. That's when I gave in-- Zoloft became my life raft.

Originally Posted by Shane

If your hubby will take over the baby responsibilities at a certain time so that you can sleep enough, then go take advantage of that. If you have a husband who will let you, and the money to get out of the house for an hour a few times a week, then do it.

My therapist said that in order for the brain to heal it needs 5 consecutive hours of sleep. This was a near impossibility for me since DS would do the all night buffet, and wouldn't take a bottle (too bad b/c I was pumping for donation so there was plenty of milk available in the fridge) but if you can pump and your babe will take it some way (I know a non-breast apparatus is not AP so-to-speak, but neither is getting to such a bad place that you are, well....like I was) you could get a good solid break.

Originally Posted by Mama J Rock

For me I had all the exact same symptoms you described after my son's birth, insomnia, uncharacteristic anger and just that feeling of "not me". I struggled with it for nearly 18 months trying everything I could think of to improve my sleep, eat better, get more exercise, anything natural. My midwife started me on a progesterone cream and it improved things a bit. Well after a couple of months of minor improvement with the cream, I got pregnant and with that pregnancy came the increased levels of progesterone and for the first time since his birth, I felt like myself again. It was unbelievable. So I had my answer, it was the low levels of progesterone I was experiencing (exacerbated by a lack of menstrual cycles since I was still nursing).

Have you had your progesterone levels checked? Most of the symptoms you've described are commonly due to an estrogen dominance in your hormone balance. And it makes sense because if you're breastfeeding and not cycling then you aren't getting that progesterone surge that happens in the second half of a normal cycle.

Arbonne makes a great Progesterone Cream.

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

interesting re; progesterone because i remember thinking this when i had raging PMS pre baby. maybe i read about it in Womens Bodies Women's Wisdom.
so progesterone cream- can it be used while bfing? is it something i can get at the HFS? or does it need a scrip? and 5-htp i'm not sure it's compatible with breastfeeding. i think it may be contraindicated? anyone try inositol w/out the 5-HTP supplement? i've been reading the inositol thread on here but boy it's loooong!
thanks everyone for the responses- i REALLY appreciate it. it helps to know i'm not the only one out there!

All the bottles will say "contraindicated"-- they have to say that. I took both 5HTP and Inositol while BFing.

Originally Posted by Emese'sMom

I can totally relate to what you are saying OP, I have btdt. I too tried all kinds of natural things (incl. 5HTP, omega oils, B vitamins, exercise, etc.) but the only thing that really helped me with the rage and uncontrollable anger was Prozac. It was a godsend. Like a pp said, I too get breakthroughs of anger when the stress gets really high again, but it's been incredibly helpful.

Good luck with your journey on this, it's difficult for you and your whole family, isn't it? I hope you find the things you are trying helpful. It's good that you are seeking solutions.

Originally Posted by CharlieToaster

It does have a lot to do with sleep deprivation. After ds 1 was born I remember not being able to stop eating I was so tired. My chiropractor was also a nutritionist. I talked to him about it thinking I was diabetic. He explained because I wasn't getting enough sleep it was my seratonin levels. Lexapro works with the seratonin in your system. I had ds 2 4 1/2 months ago and he is an easy baby. Even getting up with him at night is easy. He even likes to sleep alone. But, we are still co-sleeping most of the time with ds 1 and I'm still exhausted from giving birth to him 3 1/2 years ago. I was totally golden when ds2 was born. I felt better than I had in years! Then, my hormones kicked in when my regular cycle started again 3 weeks after he was born and I went back to feeling pregnant. I was unable to breastfeed with either child and actually started to just spontaneously lactate again 3 weeks ago so my hormones are again all over the place! I just started crying all the time and then just snapping at people. I figured it was hormones. (I'm still not convinced that it isn't, I mean, ????) I spoke with my OB on the phone and he wanted me to try the Lexapro and I was hesitant about taking anything with side effects. I mean, isn't there another way to blanace the hormones and and solve the issue? Well, The first day I was on it (yesterday) I was immediately better. I didn't get weepy until 22 hours later and now this is day 2 and it's still good. I feel much more like myself, that's for sure.

Most people need a couple weeks for the meds to kick, but I was like Charlietoaster, and felt great within a few days. Side effects are different for everyone.

I asked, initially when I started meds, how long I would have to stay on them. She said usually a minimum of 9 mos to get your brain to kick start itself back into doing this stuff itself. But you know what? Once I was back to my self (still not a perfect mama, but few are!) and wasn't raging, weeping and wanting to do bad things to myself and my baby, I didn't care how long I needed to be on them. I was finally free. My baby finally had his mama back.

Good luck and keep us posted on how you're doing and what avenues begin to work for you. Hugs. ---Vanessa

[CharlieToaster]

OMG Vanessa! I totally agree! I'll stay on them forever to keep feeling so great again!!!