FEB '08 GRAIN-FREE Traditional Diets Thread - Page 5

[Panserbjorne]

Do some more juicing, and try to up the raw fats as much as you can. Eggs, fish, coconut oil, raw butter (if you can) meat etc. are great sources.

I know for me what normalized my bowel function was actually taking out the fiber and increasing the fats. Don't know if that is helpful...

You could also take some NaturalCalm. That would get things moving. Doesn't address the underlying cause, but it does provide some relief while you look for it.

In terms of B's...I don't recommend a multi period. But I'm not telling you what to do either. I would say B's should be given alone in a full spectrum unless you can test and alleviate the imbalances specifically. HTH.

[carnelian]

Originally Posted by firefaery

You are right, and that's what many of us have found here. Nuts, even soaked and sprouted aren't really contributing to health. They may not be actively harming everyone, but I wonder if they are assisting healing either.

So do you have any ideas as to why diets like SCD and GAPS are not only being put forward as healing diets but that people are reporting very favorable results and marked improvements even. I find it curious since a lot of folks on these particular diets have extremely sensitive digestive systems and are often dealing with a complexity of issues.

[joybird]

Hi everyone. I guess we belong here too!

We have been totally grain-free for one month as I am trying to help my dd and myself with some pretty serious digestive issues and she also has fairly severe eczema that appeared last summer, around the same time the GI distress started. She was IgG tested and reacted strongly to all gluten grains, eggs, dairy and some other random stuff.

We've been doing the SCD officially for one month and were pretty limited for a while before that, just rice and some millet for grains.

She is doing so much better, and so am I but we both still have a ways to go. I think we are relying too much on nuts and dried fruit (I know, I know, they are advanced, but I was having trouble getting her to eat meat and veggies all day long. Plus I was starving and cannot afford to lose any weight.)

I think I've read most of these threads and they are immensely helpful. I am wondering, though, should I expect some normalization in BMs by now? We are taking Houston's enzymes which help a lot, but I am still waiting for things to, um . . . firm up.

I am guessing that we have some bacterial or yeast problems but I can't afford to get us tested right now so I'm kind of shooting in the dark. We are doing coconut yogurt and probiotic capsules, CLO, EPO, B vitamins, Vit C, L-Glutamine, MSM, NAG, chlorella and I am also taking Oregon Grape root to help with bacteria. Probably other stuff I am forgetting too.

Anyway, you have all been so helpful through this (especially Firefaery who has been so kind to offer her wisdom) and I am glad to see this thread! It's pretty hard to do the SCD without dairy or eggs but it's great to have support around.

So, that's me outed from lurkdom!

[ChristieB]

Sorry to be so behind here, but I thought I'd chime in on the coconut flour. I bought some from WFN, and it was OK, but it was a bit course, and I was only kind of pleased with the baked goods it produced (maybe I'm just too picky ). Then I tried the coconut flour from Tropical Traditions. I like it a lot better. It is a finer grind, and I like the resulting baked goods better. Just thought I'd share the experience of a picky baker.

In terms of cost, just keep in mind that you use a fairly small amount in a recipe (1 cup - 3.85 oz. - in 2 doz. muffins). And we don't eat these baked goods regularly. We use them more as special treats. Well, ds eats a muffin most mornings, but dh and I don't eat them often. It's a way to get more fat into ds, and it helps him feel less restricted in his diet. Also, TT often has sales where they sell 2 bags of flour for the price of 1.

I do think this is a good way to have baked goods in a grain-free diet (if that's what you're looking for). It helps dh and ds to not cheat, which is very important for *them* (I know some of you are OK with the occasional cheat, and I'm not wanting to suggest that *no one* should cheat). And it helps ds feel less like he's just a total weirdo (he already has diabetes and has to wear glasses).

Of course baking with nut butters works well, too. But since ds can only tolerate pecans, macadamias, pine nuts, and brazil nuts (which really only work for savory things), coconut flour is a lot cheaper for me. Before I found it, I made a pine nut birthday cake for ds, and OH MY that was one expensive birthday party!

[ChristieB]

Question about B vits. I keep hearing that liver is a good source for B vits., and that raw is better because they are easily destroyed by heat. Is this right? I'm curious why the USDA numbers (not all, but many) would be higher for cooked liver than for raw. Does anyone know? Also, some of the B vits don't seem particularly high. Do we just need small amounts? Or are they just a lot more available from liver?

Please pardon these ignorant questions.

[purple_kangaroo]

Well, I got dinner cooking and then went upstairs to take a shower when DH got home. He gave the kids the stir-fry I made with meat and vegetables (I specifically told him not to add rice to it), and also gave them the leftover white rice and tater tots he'd made this weekend.

AJ chose not to eat the rice, though. I was starving even after eating a big serving of meat and vegetables, and ended up eating chocolate chips after dinner. Now I'm having lovely reflux, indigestion and diarrhea.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice everyone shared . . . I appreciate it.

[quelindo]

This is probably OT, but I think my eyes have changed color. I've always had light-brown-colored eyes. Sort of yellow-ish brown. Not very pretty; I always wished my eyes were just a "regular" dark brown.

I just noticed last night that my eyes look darker and not yellow anymore. Not a dark dark brown, but more a "normal" looking brown. I know they were the "old" color as late as last fall.

I think I remember a discussion of this somewhere on MDC, and that it's connected to a change in nutrition/diet/health. (I also did a quick Google search and everyone else seems to say it's genetics, but I think it's more than that.)

Does anyone know what I'm talking about, lol?

[gilamama]

new mama - that eye color change thing sounds pretty cool.

firefaery - you are helping people on every thread i see you on! beautiful!

[purple_kangaroo]

NewMama, my eye color changes with big emotional changes, I know . . . like when my grandfather died I noticed after a few days that my eyes had gone a very dark greenish-blue, instead of their normal light blue mixed with gold. It certainly seems possible that nutrition could affect it.

I know that premature gray hair runs in my family, but my hair will turn from brown to white to brown again along the shaft of one hair, so I'm pretty sure there have to be nutritional or other factors besides just heredity at work.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by ChristieB

Question about B vits. I keep hearing that liver is a good source for B vits., and that raw is better because they are easily destroyed by heat. Is this right? I'm curious why the USDA numbers (not all, but many) would be higher for cooked liver than for raw. Does anyone know? Also, some of the B vits don't seem particularly high. Do we just need small amounts? Or are they just a lot more available from liver?

Please pardon these ignorant questions.

I'm not sure why the numbers would be different. Honestly Gale Force is probably the best person to ask about that.

We definitely have different needs for the different B's...you wouldn't want to for instance take the same amount of folate as you would biotin or B-12. Not that it's easy to become toxic, because it's not since they are water soluble. However your body doesn't have the same requirements for each. You do need to have a balance.

I am of the opinion that most nutrients will be far more bioavailable almost always from food. It just makes sense. However, in the face of a deficit I don't rely on food sources alone.

I have always learned that raw liver was a better source. Again, GF is kinda the "local" to MDC authority. She wrote a book on curing depression naturally and did ALOT of research about this very topic. I defer to her on the liver issues!

They aren't ignorant at all!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by New Mama

This is probably OT, but I think my eyes have changed color. I've always had light-brown-colored eyes. Sort of yellow-ish brown. Not very pretty; I always wished my eyes were just a "regular" dark brown.

I just noticed last night that my eyes look darker and not yellow anymore. Not a dark dark brown, but more a "normal" looking brown. I know they were the "old" color as late as last fall.

I think I remember a discussion of this somewhere on MDC, and that it's connected to a change in nutrition/diet/health. (I also did a quick Google search and everyone else seems to say it's genetics, but I think it's more than that.)

Does anyone know what I'm talking about, lol?

Many people report this when they normalize their systems. In iridology it is believed that there are only two eye colors: blue and brown. Any variation thereof is believed to be an imbalance. When you cleanse your system fully you SHOULD see changes in eye color.

Ann Wigmore connected gray hair to low hydrochloric acid. She went from all gray to all black in her 80's and was actually tested by her students who suspected that she dyed it. They sent clippings to several labs and it was confirmed it was her natural color. Many people have had success reversing graying by using HCl supplementation. Victoria Boutenko also wrote in her book "Green for Life" that her husband had the same results and there are before and after pictures. They did it with food initially, but after conducting rearch found that supplementation could also produce the same benefits.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by joybird

I think I've read most of these threads and they are immensely helpful. I am wondering, though, should I expect some normalization in BMs by now? We are taking Houston's enzymes which help a lot, but I am still waiting for things to, um . . . firm up.

Can you be more specific? I would have expected normalization by now. How often does he have movements? Are they always completely unformed? Do they vary, or are they consistently loose?

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by carnelian

So do you have any ideas as to why diets like SCD and GAPS are not only being put forward as healing diets but that people are reporting very favorable results and marked improvements even. I find it curious since a lot of folks on these particular diets have extremely sensitive digestive systems and are often dealing with a complexity of issues.

I honestly don't. It was a HUGE stumbling block (mentally) for me in the beginning. But, like I said, it worked-so I didn't question it too much. I have issues with many of the recommendations...it KILLS me that carrots are fine in the first three days of the SCD. They are *SO* hard to digest for so many people! I have no idea why it was written like that. But again, it did seem to work, so what do I know?

My only real (uneducated) guess here is that they are replacing things that were SO harmful to our systems (gluten and other refined things) that the slight irritation they may have caused went unnoticed. As my system has gotten more healed I find that I don't handle them nearly as well. However, that was after I removed them for a long period of time. My body in the beginning was probably rejoicing at having the gluten gone and didn't think twice about the nuts. After they left it had another party and now they are no longer welcome. I don't know.

[joybird]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Can you be more specific? I would have expected normalization by now. How often does he have movements? Are they always completely unformed? Do they vary, or are they consistently loose?

Movements are about every other day for dd, almost always completely unformed, plale and foul-smelling. I am once or twice every day, sometimes formed sometimes not. I think there must still be something in our diets we are sensitive to. My problems escalated when I had a miscarriage last summer (We had a big 'ole thread here a while back about including IgG sensitivities on the SCD and you helped me out a lot with info). That's when dd's eczema started too.

The enzymes had pretty much normalized us until I started the SCD and coconut yogurt, so maybe the coconut is acting like a laxative? But the color and smell is still wrong so I don't know. We are following the diet religiously but we just seem to have trouble digesting anything. Also we have been eating loads of fruit so maybe that isn't helping, or is feeding yeast and suggests a problem there.

[bluebell]

Originally Posted by firefaery

I'm not sure why the numbers would be different. Honestly Gale Force is probably the best person to ask about that.

We definitely have different needs for the different B's...you wouldn't want to for instance take the same amount of folate as you would biotin or B-12. Not that it's easy to become toxic, because it's not since they are water soluble. However your body doesn't have the same requirements for each. You do need to have a balance.

I am of the opinion that most nutrients will be far more bioavailable almost always from food. It just makes sense. However, in the face of a deficit I don't rely on food sources alone.

I have always learned that raw liver was a better source. Again, GF is kinda the "local" to MDC authority. She wrote a book on curing depression naturally and did ALOT of research about this very topic. I defer to her on the liver issues!

They aren't ignorant at all!

firefaery - do you know what Gale Force's book on curing depression naturally is called and where i can buy it? i'm looking for a book about natural cures for depression. thanks.

[gardenmommy]

Originally Posted by carnelian

So do you have any ideas as to why diets like SCD and GAPS are not only being put forward as healing diets but that people are reporting very favorable results and marked improvements even. I find it curious since a lot of folks on these particular diets have extremely sensitive digestive systems and are often dealing with a complexity of issues.

IMHO (for whatever that is worth), I think it is because people who do the SCD tend to be so unhealthy (or dealing with such major problems) that by cutting out almost all of the offending foods, they are able to experience a big improvement in their health. However, as FF noticed, I think that once the body begins to move along the path to further healing, nuts are more of an issue, and the body reacts to them more.

Sort of rambly, sorry, I've got 3 little ones climbing on me!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluebell

firefaery - do you know what Gale Force's book on curing depression naturally is called and where i can buy it? i'm looking for a book about natural cures for depression. thanks.

It's Rebuild From Depression by Amanda Rose. http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/
and her blog: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/blog/

I don't know that is out yet...but if it's not it will be soon! It's FANTASTIC. Definitely watch for it. She is a gifted writer and it was a very easy, yet chock full of info read. I highly recommend it!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by joybird

Movements are about every other day for dd, almost always completely unformed, plale and foul-smelling. I am once or twice every day, sometimes formed sometimes not. I think there must still be something in our diets we are sensitive to. My problems escalated when I had a miscarriage last summer (We had a big 'ole thread here a while back about including IgG sensitivities on the SCD and you helped me out a lot with info). That's when dd's eczema started too.

The enzymes had pretty much normalized us until I started the SCD and coconut yogurt, so maybe the coconut is acting like a laxative? But the color and smell is still wrong so I don't know. We are following the diet religiously but we just seem to have trouble digesting anything. Also we have been eating loads of fruit so maybe that isn't helping, or is feeding yeast and suggests a problem there.

Shot in the dark here....is there any way you are having food chemical sensitivities?

If you are worried about the coconut, have you tried eliminating it for a period of time? Not to get too graphic...you said the color is wrong...what is the color? Does it smell rancid? I am not sure about the whole fruit feeding yeast thing. It is possible that there are other issues with the fruit.

Have you talked to Caedmyn? She didn't have great results on SCD and felt better when she did the Failsafe diet. I have several ideas for you, but my first would be to compare notes with her.

What I can tell from personal experience and not an academic perspective is that I finally had formed stool when I ELIMINATED fiber and increased fats. On a daily basis I don't exceed 2 servings of fruit per day, I juice a ton of greens, eat as much fat as I can and plenty of meat. It's not all that different from the SCD in alot of ways. However it minimizes is food chemicals, fiber, anti-nutrients. That's just my personal experience...but I now have absolutely no issues at all. So while the SCD was a huge blessing, this was what put me at "normal."

[joybird]

FF~

I guess anything is possible. The thought of food chemical sensitivities is pretty depressing because it doesn't seem like people heal from it. We did try Failsafe for a few weeks but when dd's eczema kept flaring up I ditched it. I figure that even if we are having food chemical sensitivities, we cannot live on brussels sprouts and cabbage forever. I opted to start nourishing our bodies with lots of different healthy foods because I see that as a huge part of healing, and the elimination of everything under the sun just felt wrong. I'm fine without grains and dairy and eggs but I don't see the point in eliminating veggies and fruits and meat that we need to heal. Does that make sense? Also, since starting the SCD dd's skin looks better than it has since the eczema appeared. That must mean I am doing something right, doesn't it?

BTW, I am still nursing dd and her tummy seems to follow whatever mine is doing. As for the bm's, the color is light brown to yellowish, sometimes greenish, very fatty, messy and pure mush, sometimes with undigested food, even though we take enzymes. Yes, it does smell rancid.

So how come everything I read/hear tells me to increase fiber? I suspect that I might do better without it but heck, what on earth would I eat? Oh if only we could have eggs! When you say there may be other issues with the fruit, do you mean food chemicals or fiber?

[Panserbjorne]

I'll pm you so we don't go completely OT.