update post #22 - 21 mo dd joining the Early Caries Club - questions - Page 2

[haleyelianasmom]

It sounds like you have a good routine. We've been:

-brushing after every meal, snack, and nursing (so she no longer nurses to sleep)
-flossing before bed
-using tooth wipes while out
-xylitol gum
-fluoride toothpaste before bed (I wipe it off with a washcloth after brushing it on, only the top incisors which are the teeth with cavities)
-concentrace minerals and sodium ascorbate in her water*
-calcium carbonate and sodium ascorbate added to her toothbrush*
-vitamin d3 tabs (1000IU 1-2x a day... It's on the high end, but she had a blood test and was found to be deficient, so we're trying to get her back up)
-multivitamin and kid cal (has calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, and beta carotene)
-I just read something about ground sea salt on the infected teeth, so I'm trying that
-I read that zinc and magnesium are really good for helping cavities, so I bought an ionic zinc supplement and the concentrace has a lot of magnesium
-no more cereal and we're trying to limit refined grains
-green smoothies every morning

*I really don't know if there is any science to back these up, it just made sense to me and I'm getting desperate

[flowmom]

So we went to the dentist for kids' first visit today. It was definitely worth driving over an hour to the Vedder Dental Clinic in Chilliwack, BC (Dr. Miriam Liem). They have a philosophy in the clinic of taking lots of time to talk to and play with the kids before doing any looking in the mouth or procedures. They don't push the child's comfort zone at all, preferring to gradually build trust over time. They don't use the papoose board in their office. They did things like showing them the chair, blowing up the balloons, giving little presents, picking toothbrushes, letting ds pick which tooth to get cleaned first, etc.

Dr. Liem confirmed my fears about dd's teeth - she has decay into the dentin along the gumline of her four upper teeth, and demineralization of the enamel along the gumline of her upper canines. She said that her teeth look clean and that her dental arches looked good.

Her recommendation was to bring dd in at her nap time and have her sedated with chloral hydrate, with the expectation that she would fall asleep for at least an hour. She said that that usually works when children are under two years old. I'm a little sceptical about that working with dd because she is hard to get to sleep and rarely naps for more than half an hour. Then she would fill all six teeth with white enamel composite and look for any other decay issues in the mouth. When I asked her about how long the fillings would last, she said that I should expect them to last 1-2 years. I asked her about whether dd would be a good candidate for HealOzone, she said that she didn't know whether it was available locally, but that she had heard really good things about it. When I informed her that there was a dentist in Delta, BC who does HealOzone with children, she recommended that we consult with him. She felt that it had the potential to stop the decay from spreading, which is the most important thing. When I brought up using MI paste, she recommended it (non-fluoride version) and sold it to us for $20/per tube. She suggested using it like toothpaste. She recommended the vanilla flavour and says it tastes like vanilla yoghurt. She also said that dd probably had an enamel problem and that there probably wasn't anything that I could have done to prevent it. :

Afterwards, ds had his turn. Thank goodness he passed with flying colours! Great dental arches, good spacing, clean teeth, no decay. What a relief. And what an illustration of the mystery of early childhood caries: at dd's age, we couldn't brush ds' teeth at all, and he ate more carby snacks (e.g. rice crackers, Cheddar Bunnies) than dd does because he was an even pickier eater.

[tiffani]

hooray for wolfie!!

hopefully that will work out for Uma! : we've done chloral hydrate with dex a few times now, and it has worked wonders, though he didn't fall asleep, just got more compliant. I need some for home use!!

[zicki]

Originally Posted by Ksenia

When I brought up using MI paste, she recommended it (non-fluoride version) and sold it to us for $20/per tube.

Aw, man, I wish I'd had you pick up enough for the group of us.. I want a couple of tubes and so does beaner&tiegs and mimi! and megansar. I called Dr. Joyce's office this morning but the (lovely) receptionist is trying to find out whether she can sell it to non-patients.

Glad you had such a positive experience!!

Nick

[flowmom]

Originally Posted by zicki

Aw, man, I wish I'd had you pick up enough for the group of us.. I want a couple of tubes and so does beaner&tiegs and mimi! and megansar. I called Dr. Joyce's office this morning but the (lovely) receptionist is trying to find out whether she can sell it to non-patients.

Sorry, I thought you guys already had a plan for buying it - it didn't occur to me

[zicki]

No worries, I know you've had alot on your mind!!

Nicki

[dawncayden]

Originally Posted by zicki

Aw, man, I wish I'd had you pick up enough for the group of us.. I want a couple of tubes and so does beaner&tiegs and mimi! and megansar. I called Dr. Joyce's office this morning but the (lovely) receptionist is trying to find out whether she can sell it to non-patients.

Glad you had such a positive experience!!

Nick

I just talked to them and they said it was fine if you want to buy it.

[zicki]

Thanks Dawn.. the receptionist left me a message on Wed, saying that if I wanted to get a number of tubes (I told her it was 4 mamas, including me), that I'd need to get a case of assorted flavours.. so I tried calling back and finding out which flavours it would be, but I didn't hear back on Thurs, so today I popped over there, and darn, I hadn't realized they were closed on Fridays! So I'll have to sort it out on Monday.

Thanks!
Nicki

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Ksenia

Her upper incisors look similar to this photo, only the decayed areas are not as discoloured.

That's just what ds's two front teeth looked like.

I use xylitol toothpaste (spry infant tooth gel). Most everything I've read says that it's safe, and even mainstream dental sites say that it's effective against cavities. I've even read that it can help with tartar buildup.
I was reading in one food additive book that said it wasn't safe, though (that book said everything was unsafe, just about, so...)
We brush twice a day with it.

The second dentist we took him to said that the cavities were a result of trauma or the enamel not developing properly. He said that it wasn't related to sugar (or bf'ing).

I had his cavities filled with ART (atraumatic restorative treatment- something like that) by Dr. Patton in Vancouver. No drilling, they just scrape out the decayed stuff. Then fill it with a putty like stuff that contains flouride. It's not permanent, but it kills the decay. There was a post on here by someone who had it done to her dd. She noticed it had fallen out, but that the decay under it had hardened, and wasn't getting any worse.

One of them fell out, he replaced it for free, and it was super easy for ds. There was no scraping, it was just putting the putty in and setting it.

So far, it's holding on. We just keep brushing twice a day with the Spry, and trying to limit juice to meals (we suck at that though).

[dawncayden]

Becky, was Keagan sedated for that? How old was he when it happened?

[flowmom]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I had his cavities filled with ART (atraumatic restorative treatment- something like that) by Dr. Patton in Vancouver. No drilling, they just scrape out the decayed stuff. Then fill it with a putty like stuff that contains flouride. It's not permanent, but it kills the decay. There was a post on here by someone who had it done to her dd. She noticed it had fallen out, but that the decay under it had hardened, and wasn't getting any worse.

so much for your update!!! I was looking for someone who did ART in Vancouver and I am so glad to know about that . If we go the route of getting fillings, that's what I want.