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Next steps, care for him now???  

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Some of you may have already read about my 3 year old son Chase in my thread consequenses. In brief, he had about 50% of the outer skin removed during his circumcision at birth. He's been having issues and on January 23 he had a surgery to release severe adheshions around the scars from his initial circ. The urologist instructed us to apply neosporin to keep it from happening again, and I did for a few days. After reading more on here and talking via email to another mama here, I have stopped. I am sick over this and wondering what to do now. He was in pain before, though it's unclear what exactly from, peeing or erection. I think he did need some sort of corrective action, his penis was totally buried but now what? I am going to start looking for another urologist of course. My plan for now is to leave it alone unless he complains. Can this cause more harm than good? I can't even explain how bad applying the neosporin was, I really don't want to have to continue that if it can be avoided. He doesn't even want to bathe and I haven't made him, I've just been cleaning the important areas well during diaper changes. Any suggestions? TIA
Amy
post #2 of 24
Has he healed? are there any raw spots left?? If there are then I would be worried that they would heal together. I am not sure what I would do but I wouldnt use neosporine I would go with bacatracin instead. It is easier on the genitals. I would definatly apply a good quality diaper cream liberally at every diaper change tho to help keep the raw spots apart without hurting him.

I am so sorry you and he are going through this
post #3 of 24
Yes, to the pp ... except, instead of replacing the neosporin with diaper cream (which I would avoid at all costs.. it stings like crazy)..

I WOULD use plain old petroleum jelly...

When my son was forcibly/surgically retracted, I was told to keep retracting him & apply neosporin (causing him agonizing pain)...

instead, what I did was apply LIBERAL amounts of vaseline at the tip and where it would meet the diaper , knowing once it heats up, it should work its way around...

BUT... definitely find a foreskin friendly doc in your area.. maybe other mama's here can help you with that!!!
post #4 of 24
I didnt know that about the diaper cream thanks for posting that fruitful
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
I didnt know that about the diaper cream thanks for posting that fruitful
You mean, foreskin friendly right?

The diaper cream is what I've used when Jaden's doctor retracted him for the first time. He was 4 months old. The tip got really swollen and red. Diaper cream cleared it up in two days. That pediatrician knows better than to touch his foreskin now. He didn't touch Liam's foreskin when we had him seen for the he had the lesions on his foreskin <<was the testicles then spread to the foreskin>>

<<< I posted a thread concerning this in the Health and Healing.>>> I'll post pictures and explain more in a different thread when I can, soon I hope. Very busy today.

MSUmama s

Ds1 is circ'd <<< I was deceived>>>. He had adhesions too. Along with a concealed penis. I said buried earlier but there is a difference. I just learned this. When his penis would grow the adhesions caused him a great deal of pain. I was advised to rip them apart when he was an infant. Told to push down on the fat pad and pull the skin away from the corona. I didn't do that. I thought that was stupid. I wish my mind connected this way before dh and I was asked if we "desired to have him circ'd"

I didn't use any Vaseline or diaper cream on him. The pain started when he turned 4 and already potty trained. But the advise your getting seem like good ones. Anything to reduce the pain is always a good idea. I hope I'm helping here. Sorry if I'm way off base.
post #6 of 24
Find a D.O.C. (Doctors Opposing Circumcision) Dr. asap. Email one today if you can. Talk to more than one dr. if you need to, get more than one opinion. Maybe they can recommend a course of action or get you in touch with a good dr near you.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

If you don't find satisfactory answers there, then contact Marilyn Milos. In fact, contact her anyway, see what she has to say on the subject. Try Dr. Paul Fleiss if you have to. Leave no stone unturned. Persevere until you feel satisfied with the answers you're getting. Your son's case sounds pretty serious to me .

Good luck .
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by InDaPhunk View Post
Try Dr. Paul Fleiss if you have to. .
Why didn't I think of that!

That is probably a very good idea if you can connect with him as I believe he USED TO perform circ's and has more than likely encountered some instances common to your son's...

I would definitely try him too!
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreskin friendly View Post
Why didn't I think of that!

That is probably a very good idea if you can connect with him as I believe he USED TO perform circ's
According to what he wrote in his book, yes he used to.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUmama View Post
Some of you may have already read about my 3 year old son Chase in my thread consequenses. In brief, he had about 50% of the outer skin removed during his circumcision at birth. He's been having issues and on January 23 he had a surgery to release severe adheshions around the scars from his initial circ. The urologist instructed us to apply neosporin to keep it from happening again, and I did for a few days. After reading more on here and talking via email to another mama here, I have stopped.
The problem with "releasing" these adhesions is that often, the body will just start repairing them. The adhesions are the normal condition and the body will try to put itself back as close as possible to normal. I know of mothers who have fought these adhesions for years, in one case until the child was 7 years old before she finally gave up


Quote:
I am sick over this and wondering what to do now. He was in pain before, though it's unclear what exactly from, peeing or erection. I think he did need some sort of corrective action, his penis was totally buried but now what?
Until his body decides it is time for the adhesions to release, the best thing to do is leave it alone to perform its function.



Quote:
I am going to start looking for another urologist of course. My plan for now is to leave it alone unless he complains. Can this cause more harm than good? I can't even explain how bad applying the neosporin was, I really don't want to have to continue that if it can be avoided. He doesn't even want to bathe and I haven't made him, I've just been cleaning the important areas well during diaper changes. Any suggestions? TIA
Amy
You are on the right course now. Just keep at it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb
The diaper cream is what I've used when Jaden's doctor retracted him for the first time. He was 4 months old. The tip got really swollen and red. Diaper cream cleared it up in two days.
Actually, the diaper cream probably had little to do with it. The foreskin is highly vascularized similar to the lips and injuries like this will heal quickly even with no intervention.


Quote:
When his penis would grow the adhesions caused him a great deal of pain. I was advised to rip them apart when he was an infant. Told to push down on the fat pad and pull the skin away from the corona . . . . The pain started when he turned 4 and already potty trained.
The pain is common at this age in circumcised boys with adhesions. Erections cause pulling at the adhesions. In intact boys, there is sufficient skin to allow the penis to expand without pulling at the adhesions.


Quote:
That is probably a very good idea if you can connect with him as I believe he USED TO perform circ's and has more than likely encountered some instances common to your son's...
It would surprise me! He has said that he has never seen a boy in his practice that needed a circumcision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tammyswanson View Post
According to what he wrote in his book, yes he used to.
I wonder if that was when he was an intern and maybe had to perform them?


.
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
I've emailed Dr. Fleiss and contacted Norm Cohen of Michigan NOCIRC, he's looking for a doctor for us.

We had some progress last night, got him into the bath after a few hours of convincing and then he sat on the potty and peed (for chocolate)!!! He's never wanted to try that before and when he peed, his penis actually came out of the surrounding skin, it was unable to do at all before! I've started just globbing a plie of vaseline on his diaper where it will meet his penis. Thanks foreskin friendly!!!
post #11 of 24
I agree, I'd use plain Vaseline or even better, Un-Petroleum Jelly (it's natural, unscented, and not quite as thick as Vaseline so it spreads better). When my ds gets a chapped bottom from not wiping well enough, this is what we use -- all of the fragrances etc. in diaper creams really sting on raw skin.
post #12 of 24
No problem at all.. It worked for us.

Keep us up to date on your progress... once you have calmed down to the fact that your son isn't experiencing anymore pain.. you can move forward with some legal advice..

again... remember to check with Dave (DAVE2GA) here.. and call John Geisheker (D.O.C.)


... and if you need to call me and I will help you find out the info you need for your state's medical licensing board...
oh wait.. you said this was done in a different state (You would probably need to file a formal complaint in the state the doctor practices then...)

Keep us posted... glad to hear he is doing better...

(Some people might post a different view here...) but... I think if you make sure your bathtub is sanitary before every time he goes in/do NOT put anything in the water with him...I would even skip soap..ya know.. just bathe him in plain water... let him soak in the tub often...but avoid the soaps, etc..)
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
You mean, foreskin friendly right?
: Sorry about that, I saw the 2 word name with 2 F's and it just stuck in my head wrong.

I am still recovering from General Anesthesia that stuff takes forever to get out of your system.

I am glad you are finding Dr's who know what they are actually doing mama
post #14 of 24
No problem at all.. It worked for us.

Keep us up to date on your progress... once you have calmed down to the fact that your son isn't experiencing anymore pain.. you can move forward with some legal advice..

again... remember to check with Dave (DAVE2GA) here.. and call John Geisheker (D.O.C.)


... and if you need to call me and I will help you find out the info you need for your state's medical licensing board...
oh wait.. you said this was done in a different state (You would probably need to file a formal complaint in the state the doctor practices then...)

Keep us posted... glad to hear he is doing better...

(Some people might post a different view here...) but... I think if you make sure your bathtub is sanitary before every time he goes in/do NOT put anything in the water with him...I would even skip soap..ya know.. just bathe him in plain water... let him soak in the tub often...but avoid the soaps, etc..)
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Update... I contacted Marilyn a few days ago, she was awesome! She encouraged me to start apologizing to Chase now and trying to explain it to him. We have a very open household and normally that would have been a given but he's three and has the attention span of, well a three year old, lol! I sat him down and made him look at me and told him I had to talk to him. He seemed to understand a lot of what I was explaining, that I was sorry I let the doctor hurt his wee wee and we would never let anyone hurt him on purpose and we weren't going to let them do anything else unless they really have to. He's been so much more my happy little guy since that talk. My DH was amazed at the difference. He's been so affectionate, he's been going to bed without a fight, he's been sleeping better. I think he just feels safe again and is calmed down. My poor, poor baby, he must have felt so scared and betrayed.

Marilyn also gave me the number for a Dr. Bob VanHowe??? He's here in Michigan. I haven't had a chance to call him yet but I am going to this afternoon, anyone heard of him?

A funny thing happened yesterday. I was searching for the baby's social security card so I could finish our taxes. It wasn't in her file so I thought maybe it got slipped into one of the other kid's files. I pulled Chase's and found his cradle card from the hospital! With the on call ped's name on it and "circ 10-10-04" written at the top. I'm still going to get his records but at least I already have something with the name of the doc who did the circ. I looked her up and she has a flourishing peds practice at The Toledo Children's hospital and is, or was, an assistant professor at Medical College of Ohio. I found Ava's card shortly after that, funny how everything happens for a reason...
Amy
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUmama View Post
...funny how everything happens for a reason...
I wish more people tuned into this "channel"...

It is so true (I recommend the movie Zeitgeist to anyone interested...)


I'm SO glad to hear your son has a sense of restored security and trust.
That is such an important issue with our children (in so many ways)...

Good luck Amy.. keep us abreast of your progress with pursuing that awful
doctor!
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUmama View Post
Update...
Marilyn also gave me the number for a Dr. Bob VanHowe??? He's here in Michigan. I haven't had a chance to call him yet but I am going to this afternoon, anyone heard of him?
If it is who I am thinking of, you are very lucky! He is a ver prominent intactivist and a pediatric specialist to boot. Go and Google his name if you are curious( I used Robert Van Howe), tonnes of links will come up, he has written and been involved in many published studies.

Good luck to you guys,
Take care,
Tara
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUmama View Post
Marilyn also gave me the number for a Dr. Bob VanHowe??? He's here in Michigan. I haven't had a chance to call him yet but I am going to this afternoon, anyone heard of him?
Yes, Dr.`Van Howe is very well known in intactivist circles and is well respected in the medical community. You may find his equal but won't find better for the care of children.

Marilyn Milos is indeed awesome! She is so helpful that it is sometimes difficult to get her off the phone! I have talked with her at length and she is a charming and very knowledgeable person.

.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
A quick update, Chase is doing awesome, starting to want to try to use the potty since he figured out that he can actually push his penis out now, lol. He's 100% his sweet little goofy self again and everyone is happy to have him back.

I called in a favor to our new LLL group and asked the leader to post in her circles and see if anyone could find a good peds urologist closer than Dr. Van Howe. I'm sure he's wonderful but the distance just doesn't seem practical long term.

This is the response she sent me.



Hi, Amy. I have had three replies to posting information about this for you. One reply was HUGE!!! From our LLL Leaders message board:

I am a Leader of 24 years who has just moved to Michigan from Ohio. My
husband is a pediatric urologist, Dr. Jack Elder, and has been
correcting problemmatic circumcisions for many years in Cleveland at the
main children's hospital as chief of pediatric urology there. He has
been the editor of the Pediatric Urology section of the Journal of
Urology and is now Chief of Urology at Henry Ford Medical System in
southeastern Michigan. He would be happy to see the mom and her son at
Henry Ford's West Bloomfield Hospital if the mom wishes.


I'm so happy! I googled Dr. Elder and found a quote of his in a NOCIRC newsletter. If need be, I still will take him to Dr. Van Howe but Dr. Elder looks like a good place to start and he's only a few hours away.

Amy
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Another quick update, Chase saw Dr. Elder on Friday. He explained to me why he believes so much skin was removed during his circ, his scrotum sit up rather high on the shaft and at birth were probably at mid point. He said he does indeed have a hidden penis but it should correct itself. There is no need to have any further procedures, it's a normal size and should function fine. He personally gave me his card and said to bring Chase to see him anytime but he sees no need to do anything more, and I was right (thanks to mamas here) to stop putting neosporin, or anything at all, after the surgery last month. He's healed just fine and has no more adhesions. I can't tell you how relieved we are. The tension in our home lifted Friday when I called home to tell everyone. Chase has a pretty good understanding of what's been going on and when he called to wish my mom a happy birthday this morning he told her the doctor said his wee wee is all better and we hadn't discussed it at all since we came home from the appointment!

Nor for a quick rant, what the heck are doctors doing with themselves after they leave medical school??? I see a lot of misinformation and out dated information coming from doctors through my work but breastfeeding is not the norm in the US so I half expect them to put it on the back burner but a uroligist should kinda be current on things like this since that's what they do!!! I can kind of forgive an OB/GYN or Ped for not being up on the latest in BF'ing, sometimes they are doing their best to keep mamas and babies alive but a urologist only deals with this one area!!!
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