Would you/Do you hide any information from 5 yr olds?

[tammyw]

This is coming up right now because we are learning about Van Gogh and one of the children's books I have talks about how he committed suicide. I haven't read it to DD yet, simply because we just got the book and I was flipping through it last night and this thought came up.

Would you share these kinds of details with your five year old? Up until now I admit avoiding certain words in books (words I'm not crazy about) and just skipping over them, however I've started not doing that since I recognize she's starting to learn to read and I want her to accurately hear what she's seeing (when I run my finger under the text).

I always try to be as honest as possible with her, and I think that maybe this is no exception, but for some reason this suicide thing has me questioning. Is she old enough to talk about this? She's a very mature and intelligent little girl but still I wonder.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how everyone else approaches things like this. I mean I shared that one of the reasons we decided to go vegetarian was the cruel treatment of animals. I gave some examples but not the really gruesome ones. She then decided she also wanted to be vegetarian.

Thoughts?

[elizawill]

i don't know you or your child, so i can't really say...but personally, i would not discuss certain things with my children until they are a little older. i don't think there's a *right* answer for this, just a right answer for what is best for your kids and you.

[dharmamama]

My daughter will be six later this month and I frequently hide information from her. I don't think that there is any reason that a five year old needs to be thinking about/worrying about suicide. I know that some people feel that children should have access to all the same knowledge and ideas as adults, but I disagree with that. I don't think that young children generally have the maturity, emotional capacity, and life experience to process some things, and I don't see any reason to burden young children with certain ideas. Just as many people take a "better late than early" approach to academics, I take a "better late than early" approach to emotional or frightening concepts. I am sure someone would love to rush in and point out how their 18-month-old understands the concept of suicide so I shouldn't make blanket statements about when children are old enough to handle certain information, but I'm merely giving my opinion regarding my children.

Now, were a five year old to ask me about suicide, I would explain it. But introduce the topic myself? No way.

dm

[lauradbg]

:

Within reason, I don't withhold ideas from my kids. But, I also know what they can handle and what they can't. I let them know as much as they can with their insatiable curiosity and as little as will harm them and freak out their impressionable child minds.

[UUMom]

My youngest and I just read about Van Gogh last week, from a style point of view. We were talking about light and movement-- she had just done some abstract art and I was introducing a different style.

But all this to say, yes, we studied Van Gigh recently, so very timely wquestion for me. I was reading to her and I didn't get to the end of the book, so the suicide didn't come up. We did talk about depression a little (when we were looking at his last painting of the crows), but I didn't mention the suicide as we weren't talking so much about him as his style. However, my dd is 8 and she can read. If she does pick up the book and finish it on her own, she will read what became of Van Gogh. I admit, I didn't offer it...I could have, but I did not. And she's 8. I can't say why for sure I didn't go ahead and tell her even though we didn't read all of the book. Maybe I think it's a terribly sad topic for anyone, and I wasn't feeling strongly that the info we were looking for needed to include suicide?

[ColwynsMommy]

I would definitely not offer that information to my kids. In my opinion, this falls under my role as protector. They don't need that information yet and I don't see how it would do any good, but I can easily see how it might cause harm.

I think that one of the great things about childhood is that they get to live in a different world than adults. They get to believe in fairies and magic and Santa and all that fun stuff--and I believe that's a vital part of their development. I think it's our job to nurture that and do what we can to shield them from more adult concerns.

That said, for situations that involve people they know, or if they're specifically asking questions, I would answer as honestly as possible while still trying to hold back the more upsetting details.

This is also why I never have the news on while the kids are around, I don't want them to hear about the violent and sad things that go on while they're still so young.

[Wolfmeis]

We studied Van Gogh when G was 6 and this totally came up. I was flat busted because we were watching a video on it when they said he hilled himself. Oh the questions!

Basically I told her that his emotions hurt him so much that he couldn't live anymore. I told her it is very unusual that that happens, and that we try to stay connected to our friends and family so that it doesn't happen to us.

I wouldn't have opted to share that information but there it was.

[umbrella]

Yes, I've withheld information from the very young. I saw that many books explain things like "discovering" the Americas, to kindergarten kids. There's some heavy, complex, horrible stuff to talk about there.

[LeftField]

I do not share things with my children that I think they are emotionally unready for. I have no problems with this type of censorship. Their emotional wellbeing and innocence is important to me. I know what my kids can handle and what they can't; all kids are different.

[Daffodil]

I don't have a problem with hiding things from my 5 year old that I feel would be too much for her to handle. I can't think of too many actual examples, though. The suicide of Van Gogh probably wouldn't be one of them, but I can see how it might be for some other kids.

In general, I think a lot of things that seem really upsetting to adults are a lot less upsetting to young kids, because they don't have as much empathy and don't think about things quite as deeply. And because of that, I think it can sometimes actually be easier on kids to learn about difficult ideas for the first time when they're still too young to think really deeply about them.

[warriorprincess]

I did with my first.But my current 5 year old is my third child so it's much harder to do so.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

In general, I think a lot of things that seem really upsetting to adults are a lot less upsetting to young kids, because they don't have as much empathy and don't think about things quite as deeply. And because of that, I think it can sometimes actually be easier on kids to learn about difficult ideas for the first time when they're still too young to think really deeply about them.

I respect that this has been your experience, but it has not been mine. My kids seem to have a "what??" reaction to many things that I've been desensitized to. They see things through a more innocent filter. But I'm willing to admit that my kids are super duper sensitive in temperment.

We've had discussion like this:
"What's Veteran's Day? What is a veteran?"..."Oh, so what does 'defend' mean? Does that mean killing?? Do they kill people?? Why do they kill people? Why don't they just tell other people to stop doing mean things and share? They shouldn't kill people! Why do people kill other people?!" Meanwhile, my head is doing this:
:

I think kids can be very sensitive, pure souls and question things that adults take for granted. It humbles me really. My kids have taught me things and made me question things.

[Mary-Beth]

Last year when we studied MLK, Jr. I read a book about his life, his teachings, and at the end about the day he was killed.
That was the first time my child was introduced to the concept of guns and murder. She didn't seem to remember any of MLK, Jr's life and instead just focused on how someone shot him. She talked about it for weeks. At that moment, I decided I didn't have to give all the info and facts, unless asked. I would never lie, but you don't have to share every detail either.
This year, when we studied MLK, Jr. we read all about his life, and what he taught and lived for. I didn't read about how he was killed and my dd's talked for weeks about his message and how he helped change all those unfair laws, not about his death. I think that is more important at this point. The day will come that they will ask what happened next and I will certainly tell the truth. Or maybe I'll just see other signs of readiness and I'll volunteer more info. but either way I think it's fine to skip parts that could be confusing, scary, or dilute the bigger message in some way.

I change words while I read too.. I know many on MDC who don't agree but I sometimes see words in books that I don't want them to use. Why would I introduce a word that I don't want them to hear or say? Yes, they will hear it at some point and I can explain the word and what it means and why we don't use it. Some times I read it and then stop and explain and say I think the author could have said it like this instead...and offer other words.

I probably wouldn't get into the suicide. I don't avoid discussing death at all but I think it would be a little too much for my 4 and 6yo.

[daniedb]

We are not there yet, he just turned 4, but I absolutely do censor things that I don't believe he is ready to understand and handle. We have a fabulous book that I recommend to anyone and everyone called, I Can Handle It, and there are situations described that elicit and address all kinds of emotion. One of the stories is about a kid whose BF's dad died, and that's not something we need to tackle right now. I just skip over that, and keep it in my pocket for when it's appropriate.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

In general, I think a lot of things that seem really upsetting to adults are a lot less upsetting to young kids, because they don't have as much empathy and don't think about things quite as deeply.

I would have to say that's not been my experience, both as a former child and someone who has worked with lots of children even before having my own.

IME, kids tend to get more frightened of certain things because they don't really understand the big picture and they tend to think that these things will/could happen to them to a greater degree than probability would suggest. Because a child's world is immediate and self-centric, young kids don't often get that not everything they hear about will happen to them.

dm

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by LeftField

I respect that this has been your experience, but it has not been mine. My kids seem to have a "what??" reaction to many things that I've been desensitized to. They see things through a more innocent filter. But I'm willing to admit that my kids are super duper sensitive in temperment.

Originally Posted by dharmamama

I would have to say that's not been my experience, both as a former child and someone who has worked with lots of children even before having my own.

IME, kids tend to get more frightened of certain things because they don't really understand the big picture and they tend to think that these things will/could happen to them to a greater degree than probability would suggest. Because a child's world is immediate and self-centric, young kids don't often get that not everything they hear about will happen to them.

Hmm, maybe my kids and I are unusual. (I think I was unusually non-empathetic as a kid, actually.) When I heard about bad things that I had never actually experienced happening to people I didn't know - people who didn't feel quite real to me, like Van Gogh - I'm pretty sure I didn't expect those things ever to happen to me. For me, because my world was so immediate and self-centric, things I had no direct experience of seemed rather unreal. (Fairy tales are an extreme example of that - their world is so long ago and far away and full of unreal elements that none of the horrible things in them are really frightening at all. Or at least they weren't frightening to me.)

My DD seems a lot like me in this regard (though I think she's a bit more empathetic.) She rather likes the idea of war, for instance. Clearly, she doesn't really understand what war is like, but she does know it involves people fighting and killing each other. And her limited understanding makes it less scary to her than it ought to be, not more.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

(I think I was unusually non-empathetic as a kid, actually.)

I'm sure it depends a lot on the kid(s) in question. My six year old is extremely empathetic ... to a degree that it's sometimes difficult to deal with her extreme reactions to things. My five year old isn't as emotionally reactive as my six year old, but I do know that he is affected by things as they frequently come up as themes in his play. Both of them are very sensitive to the misfortunes (or perceived misfortunes) of people and animals.

Interestingly, my 13 year old, who has experienced extreme misfortune, is very non-empathetic and unsympathetic to other people. On the rare occasions that she does show empathy/sympathy, it's rather surprising because it's such a change from her normal attitude. We have worked very hard to model sympathy and empathy, but we're not really getting anywhere with her.

dm

[tammyw]

I'm happy to hear all the responses, since it makes me feel better about "sheltering" her from some of the unpleasantries. I guess it just caught me off guard that a kids book mentioned suicide and I wondered if I was being too protective or something. Once in a while, I sort of forget to trust my instincts!

My DD is definitely an incredibly sensitive soul. Things affect her deeply. When we found a centipede in our house, I made the mistake of mentioning it to her and she was afraid to go anywhere else in the house by herself for a good bit of time.

[Leilalu]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

We studied Van Gogh when G was 6 and this totally came up. I was flat busted because we were watching a video on it when they said he hilled himself. Oh the questions!

Basically I told her that his emotions hurt him so much that he couldn't live anymore. I told her it is very unusual that that happens, and that we try to stay connected to our friends and family so that it doesn't happen to us.

I wouldn't have opted to share that information but there it was.

that is a great answer

I frequently hide things as well, but when faced with them, I try to answer best I can. Sometimes still hiding a bit of info.

I think it is still our job as parents to shelter our kids from certain things until they can fully understand them.

[theatermom]

It depends on the situation, and on the child. I definitely shelter my children from certain things, especially certain visual images, partly because I know firsthand that many of those images will stay in their visual memory permanently. Children who aren't at least partially sheltered from disturbing information or images typically grow up to be less empathetic, not more so.

That said, I think that it's equally dangerous to not talk about disturbing situations that come up in one's own life. So, while I might very well not introduce Van Gogh's suicide to a 5 year old without prompting from that child, I would definitely discuss the suicide/death/other public issue of a friend or family member with said child. In fact, a close friend of the family, a man with whom my SIL and Dh grew up, and who she very nearly married, recently shot himself. My 7 year old overheard my conversation with my MIL as I received the news, and had many questions that it would have been irresponsible of me to not answer. Ds' 2nd cousin was recently diagnosed with cancer, and so we've also talked about that, but I always let him lead the discussions, and I spare him the scary details as much as possible.

One doesn't have to be condescending to a child in order to be respectful of their developing minds. So, I definitely respect any parent/guardian's desire to protect their child from the ugly side of life, so long as they aren't pretending that it doesn't exist at all.