CLW and limits?

[haleyelianasmom]

I'm not sure if this is the best title, but I'll be honest. I want to keep nursing my 2.5 year old and I'm prepared to go for much longer if she wants to, but at the same time, there are 2 other issues. (heh, I'm NAK right now).

1) She has tooth decay. We always brushed her teeth and avoided sweets (we are very nutritionally conscious), but it somehow happened. I've done a lot of research and it seems that while nursing doesn't cause cavities, once they are there it can make them worse... So while she was already making the move to falling asleep without nursing, I've had to give an extra push. She has taken to it very well, but it wasn't totally "child led".

2) Sometimes nursing just feels irritating to me and I have to fidget or try to distract myself just so I don't get annoyed by it. Other times I just have to say "not now" if she just nursed not long ago. This never happened when she was a baby, but I feel like I do have to listen to my body and set limits.

So I guess I'm wondering if there are other moms here practicing CLW while still having mother-led limits... (I guess making it a mutual process)

[NW6Londonmum]

Yes, My 3.5 yr old has a limit of 3 nursings in 24 hours. He has rubber bracelets and 'buys' a milkies. Previously he was nursing all night long ("mummy, it's tasty") with my 10 week old sleeping 6 hour stints nearby. I needed limits to survive.
However I now no longer feel I am really entitled to call it CLW. While it's not fully mother-led I think I've lost the CLW label.

[Nan'sMom]

I try to be really honest with my almost 4 y.o. about whether I can nurse her now and working with her to get both our needs met. It can be really hard though, for both of us at times. I'm too tired right now to write a long post about it but it is a big give and take and I find things go much better if I attend to her needs in other ways as much as I can as well...she nurses more when bored, hungry, etc. Also going out a lot cuts down on nursing sessions!

Oh, eating and drinking enough helps immesurably. If I'm feeling negative about nursing I do a check in with myself about food, drink, etc. Sometimes I have dd1 wait while I get water or a snack.

In terms of the cavities, check out the Curing Cavities With Nutrition thread on the dental forum and possibly look into Healozone and xylitol products to help out.

[haleyelianasmom]

Originally Posted by Nan'sMom

In terms of the cavities, check out the Curing Cavities With Nutrition thread on the dental forum and possibly look into Healozone and xylitol products to help out.

Been there We're using xylitol, brushing after every meal/nursing, and have an appointment to do healozone next month. It's such an irritating problem. DH and I never had cavities when we were little.

[doubledutch]

wow. i consider myself to be child-led weaning (or full-term breastfeeding), but i set a lot of limits. it's not child-dominated nursing. to me, clw means my nurslings will wean when they outgrow breastfeeding. i'm not forcing them to wean, but they're not forcing me to nurse. i retain governance of my body.

imo, nursing is not only an act of love and a way to feed and comfort. it's also an opportunity to teach boundaries and respect for others (meaning me!).

my older nursling is 2.5 years. a year ago, while i was pregnant, we were mostly nursing on-demand, but i started to teach him concepts of waiting and of mama needing to end the nursing session, in preparation for my baby's birth. shortly before my baby was born, i night-weaned.

while my older nursling got accustomed to being a big brother, i continued to nurse most of the times that he asked, although sometimes i did limit the duration or limit him to one side. more recently, as he has gained a grasp on the idea of things happening in the near future, i've been reminding him that we'll nurse at naptime or bedtime, and he accepts that. if he really needs to nurse, because he's hurt, scared, or out of sorts, we do. i'm not rigid about it, but if he easily accepts an alternative and a promise of nursling later, to me, that means there is no harm in delaying. he also usually easily accepts, "mama's all done," or "all done that side."

sorry if this is an overly-long post, but i just wanted to illustrate that you can set limits without compromising your goals of clw or sacrificing the special bond you have with your dd. when nursing is unpleasant, you don't have to "endure" it to be a good, loving mom. you can find a solution (via alternatives to nursing, time limits, restricting it to certain locations, etc) that feels right for both of you.

[guestmama9904]

i nursed my son until the week of his 5th birthday when he just seemed done. he stopped nursing to sleep at about 4.5 and it just trailed off from there. i guess we probly had "limits" but it was more like any other important relationship, there were ebbs and flows in how comfortable and fun the nursing was, and there were times where i didnt like it and thought of stopping but we worked it out so we could both get what we needed. when ds was about 2 i went through a phase where i really got irritated with nursing, but i found that i liked it more at certain times of the day so thats when he nursed for longer stretches. by the time he was 4 we would go a day or two with out nursing. my son also had sever dental problems he had major cavities by 18 months. he had dental surgery to repair his multiple cavities and extract one tooth at age 3, under general anesthesia. he also had a tooth pulled at age 5.5. he too was mostly breastfed, not fed sugary things ect. never the less he got cavities but i decided nursing wasnt something i was willing to stop due to cavities because i am not convinced that nursing caused them or made them worse.

[Ks Mama]

Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom

So I guess I'm wondering if there are other moms here practicing CLW while still having mother-led limits... (I guess making it a mutual process)

Absolutely. I think child-led weaning is just like any other child-led part of parenting. You just follow your child's lead, providing gentle guidance, reassurance, and instruction as they go. But you don't cut yourself out of the picture.

I found that TALKING with my daughter about my feelings, and encouraging her to talk about her feelings with regards to nursing really helps.

When I was pregnant with DS, nursing became EXTREMELY uncomfortable, so we worked on a mutually acceptable solution to frequent nursing/night nursing. We talked a lot of about cuddling first, then nursing second, and nursing sitting up because it was uncomfortable for Mommy to nurse lying down. When DS was born, DD was already used to the idea of me ending sessions a bit short, or of being patient for another time when it was more comfortable.

We came up with a "schedule" shortly after DS was born, that both she & I could count on, of 4 times per day that I would definitely say YES! to a nursing request - it helped us both because DD felt she had a sense of control (she had one "free time" milk in addition to the set times), and I had a feeling of freedom & ability to be prepared - instead of constantly having one of my children at breast in the newborn stage - so I could be mentally & physically ready to be comfortable & comforting to each of my children while nursing.

Now that she's 3 & 1/2, I also ask her, when she's asks me for milk, to think if its really nursing she wants, or if its that she's hungry or thirsty or needs a hug or feels bored or whatever. She still asks frequently on a day when she's feeling less secure or ill, but sometimes she'll start to ask, then think for a moment & say, actually, I really need some mommy time, or a snack, etc. but I spend a lot less time distracting or saying not right now, now that she's able to really understand & express her own feelings, and has a better capability for empathy as well.

[leila1213]

I don't think breastfeeding contributes to tooth decay in any way. Have you seen this? http://www.curetoothdecay.com/Baby_B...k_cavities.htm
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=naturally

[haleyelianasmom]

And even though human breastmilk is not cariogenic, some studies have shown that frequent night nursing may contribute to the development of ECC in the small percentage of children who are at risk for developing the disease.17

"...Breastfeeding has nothing to do with creating caries. But if you or your child are one of the people who have the 'mean flora,' you will have to be extremely cognizant and vigilant of the fact that every substance aggravates the flora and contributes to caries formation."

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../cavities.html

We aren't going to wean over this, but I try to keep her teeth clean as much as possible, even from breastmilk just to be safe.

[josybear]

i only nurse my 2.5 year old once a day, at bedtime. my 6 month old has fed every hour, on the hour, since birth and i just can't keep up with two nursing children. my older son was nursing full time and had quit solids about 4 months ago, but i couldn't cope with exclusively breastfeeding two. so i gradually limited him to the one feeding. he's usually ok with it, but gets upset when he's sick or hitting a milestone or whatever. i'll keep giving him one feeding a day until he's in high school if he wants, but for my own sake i can't go back to more than one a day.
does that make me evil?

[SereneBabe]

I think it's really important to distinguish between following our children's lead and forgetting our own.

When our babes are younger than 2 years, I think we nurse on demand as child-led folks (for the most part, and of COURSE there are exceptions).

But when they get late in their 3rd year (2 years +) there start to be a lot of other issues that come in to the equation. (Is that how equation is spelled?)

We need to teach our children about caring for ourselves, how mommy is as valuable as anyone else, how it is important to listen to someone when they say "no," the benefits of delayed gratifcation, and all sorts of other good things.

I've been following my child's lead for 4.5 years and I believe in retrospect that I erred on the side of self-sacrifice. It didn't bother me at the time, and I never felt like a martyr. But, I guess what I'm saying is I believe that being a passionate believer in following my child's lead includes recognizing her need (as a child over 2) to consider other people's needs as well as her own.

--Heather

[SereneBabe]

Oh, and, Maya had cavities. She ended up with temporary fillings that had to be replaced with real fillings.

We didn't stop nursing at all since the evidence is so mixed.

We did, however, discover we were doing a LOUSY job brushing her teeth even though we tried really, really hard.

Anyway, we didn't stop nursing and she's fine with no sign of new cavities. :-)

[CalebsMama05]

my 19m/o has limits...since he's so young I try to say yes at least 3x a day and if I HAVE to say no I offer when I am able to nurse him. It's hard though being almost due (tomorrow) and still having him nursing as much.

I agree its CLW not child run nursing. my boobs belong to ME and I get final say on whether they are used or not. that may sound harsh but...it is true. I do try to let my son nurse as much as he wants but with his sister coming soon I feel that for his sake I should get him used to some limits so he isn't blindsided by "not right now" once she is born.

[of2mindsmama]

thanks mama, this thread was great to read. i was starting to wonder myself if child-led meant child-dominated. i also have needs and sometimes they feel VERY urgent (partly, i believe, because my infant needs were not met the way i am trying to meet my babies' needs). it doesn't feel or seem right to ignore those needs.
it's hard when the labels get in the way, isn't it?
do some people who use the label child-led resent that some people who also set limits with older nurslings (2-4 year olds) also use that label?
i am definitely wanting to set limits with my DD, but also definitely not wanting to disrespect or disregard her needs. thanks for all the insights into this crazy balancing act!

[guestmama9904]

you know, in regards to pregnancy and clw with a toddler its interesting because in many traditional cultures that value breastfeeding ie. some african cultures and others, women simply weaned as soon as they became pregnant again. it is just not comfortable to breastfeed when you are pregnant. i became pregnant when ds was 2.5 years old, i ended up having a mc at 9 weeks but during that time nursing felt like a major pita, it just wasnt super comfortable or natural feeling to me. i did end up continuing to nurse my son until he was 5 but i think as long as you become pregnant after your child is at least 1 or 2 years old it would be completely legit to not nurse the older one anymore.