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Help me convice DH that buying DS a toy kitchen is not "gay" - Page 7

post #121 of 160
I think it's abusive too. And I would go so far as to say that I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be non-heterosexual, would not have children. I don't think that's such a horrible thing to say, especially when you consider how tortured queer people have been over having parents who cannot accept or even actively despise them.
post #122 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I think it's abusive too. And I would go so far as to say that I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be non-heterosexual, would not have children. I don't think that's such a horrible thing to say, especially when you consider how tortured queer people have been over having parents who cannot accept or even actively despise them.
Amen.
post #123 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiamond View Post
No kidding!

Some of the best chefs in the world are men. Gordon Ramsay? Yum! Definitely not gay.
:

My husband is a trained chef...he is definitely not gay. Errrr. I honestly find that way of thinking very offensive...
post #124 of 160
First of all, the whole "X will turn my kid gay" is silly in general. I assume that is his way of saying he is worried about it being too girly.

Now if he is worried about gender stereotypes and his kid being picked on by other kids or whatever, I can see that as a legitimate concern. However, having a toy kitchen is not at all a big deal as it is fairly gender neutral, and now is the time to teach him that some people have gender stereotypes but that they are only silly stereotypes, men and women, boys and girls can do whatever they want (obviously within law, reason, etc. but you know what I mean). You make him aware of it and give him the tools to respond to anyone who is being taught gender stereotypes. He will have to deal with some bullying regardless, it is good to teach him how and to teach him that now.
post #125 of 160
I’m with alegna, whose post has been quoted so many times I needn’t quote it again, and Demeter9, who said: <<I would ask him also why he hates women so much, that being associated with something he considers female is so disgusting. >>

theatermom, I completely disagree with this:
<< The man made an unsophisticated, uneducated remark, but it was not a direct slur, and most likely it was an honest concern based on years of misinformation. Education starts with understanding, and if you can't meet an otherwise normal person (we're not talking hate groups here) halfway, how in the world are things supposed to change? >>

Nothing’s EVER going to change (i.e. we’ll NEVER overcome 5,000 years of patriarchy) if we women just keep being nicey-nice to sexist, homophobic men. I DON’T think that a sexist, homophobic man is an“otherwise decent/normal person,” or that it’s okay for a man to parent in a sexist/homophobic way. Saying “We’re not talking hate groups here” makes it sound like, “Hey, give him a break and let him say whatever - it’s not like he’s advocating for gay people to DIE!” That’s not enough. I know a woman whose misogynist husband treated her like crap, and his big “defense” of himself was, “Hey, it’s not like I BEAT you or anything.” Well whoopdee-doo! It doesn't make it okay!

I do not take sexism and homophobia lightly. I have no obligation to educate sexist and homophobic men. As a lesbian, I have the right to separate myself from sexist, homophobic men TO THE FULLEST EXTENT POSSIBLE if I so choose. No, I can’t always stay away from the men who yell obscene things at me from their truck windows, or leer at me in the grocery store, but I can choose who to spend time with and converse with. And I choose to not voluntarily spend time with, or talk with, men who exhibit sexist/homophobic beliefs and practices, such as the OP’s husband. It’s not my (or any woman’s) obligation to educate him or any other man about overcoming sexism.
post #126 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I think it's abusive too. And I would go so far as to say that I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be non-heterosexual, would not have children. I don't think that's such a horrible thing to say, especially when you consider how tortured queer people have been over having parents who cannot accept or even actively despise them.
I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be *anything* would not have children. Any kind of "just as long as he's not _________" is a very disturbing attitude. If someone can't love his or her child *unconditionally,* I don't think that person should be a parent. Even if the child is "acceptable," it is undoubtedly traumatic to know that he might not have been.
post #127 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inci View Post
theatermom, I completely disagree with this:
<< The man made an unsophisticated, uneducated remark, but it was not a direct slur, and most likely it was an honest concern based on years of misinformation. Education starts with understanding, and if you can't meet an otherwise normal person (we're not talking hate groups here) halfway, how in the world are things supposed to change? >>

Nothing’s EVER going to change (i.e. we’ll NEVER overcome 5,000 years of patriarchy) if we women just keep being nicey-nice to sexist, homophobic men. I DON’T think that a sexist, homophobic man is an“otherwise decent/normal person,” or that it’s okay for a man to parent in a sexist/homophobic way. .


I believe Theatermom explained several times that she was not suggesting being "nicey nice."
post #128 of 160
Inci, you rawk.
post #129 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna View Post
I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be *anything* would not have children. Any kind of "just as long as he's not _________" is a very disturbing attitude. If someone can't love his or her child *unconditionally,* I don't think that person should be a parent. Even if the child is "acceptable," it is undoubtedly traumatic to know that he might not have been.
Totally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inci View Post
I have no obligation to educate sexist and homophobic men. As a lesbian, I have the right to separate myself from sexist, homophobic men TO THE FULLEST EXTENT POSSIBLE if I so choose. No, I can’t always stay away from the men who yell obscene things at me from their truck windows, or leer at me in the grocery store, but I can choose who to spend time with and converse with. And I choose to not voluntarily spend time with, or talk with, men who exhibit sexist/homophobic beliefs and practices, such as the OP’s husband. It’s not my (or any woman’s) obligation to educate him or any other man about overcoming sexism.
: But you don't have to be a lesbian to have the right to distance yourself from homophobic, racist, sexist men.
post #130 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
Cooking is not specific to one gender, and cooking does not have anything to do with sexual orientation/identity. Your Dh is stuck in a very narrow mindset, and it's one that is particularly destructive to children, IMO.

Has he (Dh) ever used a stove? Scrambled an egg? Boiled macaroni? Ask him if he's gay.

And even if it could "make him gay", which it cannot... why would that be bad?
ah yes: wisdom. thank you.
post #131 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
...you don't have to be a lesbian to have the right to distance yourself from homophobic, racist, sexist men.
Excellent point.
post #132 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
: But you don't have to be a lesbian to have the right to distance yourself from homophobic, racist, sexist men.


That is a great line. I think I need a bumper sticker that says that

-Angela
post #133 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I think it's abusive too. And I would go so far as to say that I wish people who cannot handle the possibility that their child might be non-heterosexual, would not have children. I don't think that's such a horrible thing to say, especially when you consider how tortured queer people have been over having parents who cannot accept or even actively despise them.
:
I know a woman who told me that if her son was gay, she'd disown him. It made me angry and sad...not that I think she'd be a huge loss in his life, but she's still his mom. Such a horrifying attitude. I just don't get it. Mind you, I don't get the whole being disappointed when a kid doesn't make the "right" career choice or marry the "right" person or go to the "right" school or whatever, either. My kid are people in their own right, and I find that the fun part of being a mom is finding out who they are...not telling them that...
post #134 of 160
To address the OP, I wouldn't want to stand between my child and something he/she is interested in learning for any reason. If your DS likes kitchens, get the boy a kitchen. It helps with fine motor skills.

To address the "gay" comment. I don't believe he meant it as it came out but it is a slur. He should spend less time interfering with his son's play and more time thinking about the effect he has on the world around him. He is passing down to his child that being gay is inferior or undesirable. Even if your DS isn't gay, he will grow up to be an adult and it is up to you, as his parents, to teach him that someone's sexual orientation doesn't have any bearing on the quality of person they are. (Longest runon sentence ever!) Your DH should be a little more aware of what he says and how that impacts your DS.
post #135 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
My kid are people in their own right, and I find that the fun part of being a mom is finding out who they are...not telling them that...
My husband and I were having this very conversation at dinner tonight. We were basically just reveling in the joy that is our daughter. It's amazing to watch them grow and flourish into their own people. I can't imagine holding her back. I just can't.
post #136 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
My kid are people in their own right, and I find that the fun part of being a mom is finding out who they are...not telling them that...
:

I can't imagine stifling my DS's imagination and interests, especially based on outdated gender stereotypes. And my DH wouldn't either.
post #137 of 160
If he doesn't have a kitchen, how is he going to cook that venison he shot down with his toy riffle?
post #138 of 160
OP: Has your DH read the comments, and if so, what does he think? Just to repeat what everyone else has said, a toy kitchen, or a doll or a houla-hoop will not make your child gay, and a tractor and a saw won't make him straight. My 3 yo DS has all of the above, and all I know is he is a pretty average little guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
If he doesn't have a kitchen, how is he going to cook that venison he shot down with his toy riffle?
That's too funny. Thread Hijack - 2bluefish, how are you doing? That other forum has been down for a while, but I still go occasionally. You still think about your births a lot? I do, but not so much, maybe once a week I have a little bit of bittersweet - bitter for what happened, sweet pride for how much I was able to do the 2nd time.
post #139 of 160
Ugh. My friend's fiance got mad at her for wanting to buy HER son (not his) a kitchen set for Christmas last year. He said the same thing, but using some choice not-so-nice words "You can't get him a kitchen set! I don't want him to be no F** " Yeah.. her fiance is really classly, let me tell you.

Anywho:

1) Cooking, real or otherwise, does not a gay person make.

2) If the child in question does end up gay, so what? That doesn't make them a bad or unloveable person.

Some people just infuriate me with their assumptions and prejudices. If I had a son who wanted to take ballet, I would let him. If I had a son or daughter who ended up gay, I would be happy that he/she was being true to his or herself! That's all that matters!
post #140 of 160
I love James Oliver.

My straight-manly-man who has slowly been learning to cook started seeing James Oliver on TV.....and he went out and bought a cook book.

He made me cheesecake yesterday.

Not only is my DH AWESOME because he has successfully overcome the stupid men-don't-cook bs he grew up with, but it turns out he is a GREAT cook. I love James Oliver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonttaylors View Post
Um, I have 2 words for him:

Jamie Oliver.

Mad skillz in the kitchen. Easy on the eyes. Soooooooooo not gay.

And my younger brother for that matter. Head chef of a very well known restaurant. Getting married July 4th weekend. Granted our mothers are lesbians, but I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with his career choice.

I swear to you, homosexuality does not rub off kitchen appliances and stick to your skin.



One tiny question, what happens if you DON'T get him a kitchen and he is still gay? What toy could be the culprit?
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